Is club soccer a waste of time/money for youngers (under 10 yo)?

[EvilGoalie 21]

college athletics (mental health, grades).

I think its worth emphasizing how real this is for parents that may not know. Athletic departments have academic success programs put in place, and I think for most student athletes its a great experience. But the pressures are very real, and students can be scared to "come clean" about academic problems with coaches, etc. hoping nobody will notice or they can right the ship somehow. Mental health issues, academic integrity issues, it can go south real fast.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

I guess one thing I wished I had appreciated at the outset of the club soccer experience was the extent to which being a player can become the core of a kid's identity. So as it draws to a close the whole athletic/academic fit thing can end up being not just a decision making process but also something of an existential crisis. Its easy to say yeah I can see the soccer being important, but really understanding how deep that wiring goes.....

BTW for a goalkeeper I highly recommend tennis as a second sport. Great for footwork, lateral movement, etc.

 

[Multi Sport]

A waste? Hmm..if it's fun and the travel isn't much then do it.

 

[Grace T.]

I guess one thing I wished I had appreciated at the outset of the club soccer experience was the extent to which being a player can become the core of a kid's identity. So as it draws to a close the whole athletic/academic fit thing can end up being not just a decision making process but also something of an existential crisis. Its easy to say yeah I can see the soccer being important, but really understanding how deep that wiring goes.....

This is true of the primary endeavors of most high school kids performing at the highest level: student council president, football jock, cheerleader, honors society, drama lead, debate team captain, lead band guitarist, artist, dancer, activism, dead poets society. High school is an age where kids seek out identity. Middle school is where they explore and put various hats on. College is where they begin to see it was all bs…hence the existential crises.

 

[Woodwork]

This is true of the primary endeavors of most high school kids performing at the highest level: student council president, football jock, cheerleader, honors society, drama lead, debate team captain, lead band guitarist, artist, dancer, activism, dead poets society. High school is an age where kids seek out identity. Middle school is where they explore and put various hats on. College is where they begin to see it was all bs…hence the existential crises.

There are some identities not listed above that are much worse than being over-invested in soccer. That being said, without the time constraints of competitive club soccer (at least at the highest level) all those eggs don't have to go in one basket. There is an argument that it may be better if they have time to do 3 or 4 of the above. ECNL soccer is a 15-20 hour per week commitment. ECNL players usually stink at guitar as a result.

 

[zebrafish]

I think one needs to define waste.

Will playing rec soccer at age 10 and under likely slow your kid's developmental progress if they continue after age 10 and desire to play competitive soccer? Yes, likely.

Will that difference matter in their life when they are 50 years old? Probably not.

Is that worth the extra money? Only you can figure that out.

 

[crush]

I think ((each)) one ((family)) needs to define waste.
Only you ((player)) can figure that out.

 

[Multi Sport]

Parents also tend to muck it up for the kids. If your kid is the alpha on the team at u10 then the pressure is on for the next 8 to stay the alpha. Rarely happens.

Enjoy the journey but remove the parental goggles along the way.

 

[zebrafish]

My kid played AYSO until they were like 9-10-ish
It was a great environment, not because it was AYSO necessarily, but because there was a good group of cohesive parents/kids, the competition was reasonably appropriate, and there was good coaching.
As kids get older, I think it can be hard to find that cohesion in rec/AYSO, the coaching is not great, and the level of soccer is not good.
But all those things are definitely not a given in club soccer, either.
In club environment, we've been lucky enough to find a good group of kids/parents and an excellent coach.
So for me, the environment is the key-- whether it is labelled rec, club, DPL, ECNL, ECRL, DA, etc. isn't really critical (to me, and mostly to my kid). Is my kid happy? Are they challenged? Do they like the game? Is their coach a decent human being and a good teacher of the game?

 

[Grace T.]

There are some identities not listed above that are much worse than being over-invested in soccer. That being said, without the time constraints of competitive club soccer (at least at the highest level) all those eggs don't have to go in one basket. There is an argument that it may be better if they have time to do 3 or 4 of the above. ECNL soccer is a 15-20 hour per week commitment. ECNL players usually stink at guitar as a result.

I agree some identities are much worse and there are some that are just in the eye of the beholder based on values (e.g., being goth v. being an elite soccer player). I agree there's an argument that having more well rounded children might be better off for society too.

However, this runs into the 1000 touches problem (that people, whether its the violin, soccer, or math, get proficient by constant repetition in the 1 thing). Everything for kids (whether it's grades, violin, equestrian, dance, sport or even fake charities kids applying to fancy private schools feel compelled to start) is in this arms race to build expertise, because the kids want to stand out when it comes to college admissions. Add the propensity for kids in high school to want to chose a hat to wear, and a healthy dose of parental pushing, and it's the perfect storm for an arms race. The reality is someone doing 3 or 4 on the list probably won't have the chops to get a look at higher level soccer team, play on the competitive jazz band, travel with the debate club, run the student council, and maintain the grade point average they need for whatever college they are aiming for (which as we've discussed elsewhere on these forums, matters even for soccer players since grades play a role even in recruited admissions and not all scholarships are pure sports scholarships due to the various caps).

 

[Woodwork]

I agree some identities are much worse and there are some that are just in the eye of the beholder based on values (e.g., being goth v. being an elite soccer player). I agree there's an argument that having more well rounded children might be better off for society too.

However, this runs into the 1000 touches problem (that people, whether its the violin, soccer, or math, get proficient by constant repetition in the 1 thing). Everything for kids (whether it's grades, violin, equestrian, dance, sport or even fake charities kids applying to fancy private schools feel compelled to start) is in this arms race to build expertise, because the kids want to stand out when it comes to college admissions. Add the propensity for kids in high school to want to chose a hat to wear, and a healthy dose of parental pushing, and it's the perfect storm for an arms race. The reality is someone doing 3 or 4 on the list probably won't have the chops to get a look at higher level soccer team, play on the competitive jazz band, travel with the debate club, run the student council, and maintain the grade point average they need for whatever college they are aiming for (which as we've discussed elsewhere on these forums, matters even for soccer players since grades play a role even in recruited admissions and not all scholarships are pure sports scholarships due to the various caps).

Violin doesn't make you fly across the country and miss the Monday before finals to attend a tournament. Math doesn't make you choose between academics and sport. Being student body president doesn't require $6,000+ per year in fees and travel expense. There are serious questions about the sacrifice/commitment required for ECNL-Level soccer and the payout. And there are a lot of non-ECNL teams requiring similar commitment with false promises of a payout.

 

[Woodwork]

Is that worth the extra money? Only you can figure that out.

I think we can get to roughly subjective market value. Based on ROI, you can get 80-90% of the value from club soccer by playing AYSO Select and then Elite or whatever and by sticking to teams that travel very locally. Yet, that may cost 20% of what an ECNL team requires all in.

You can factor scholarships in. But weigh that against the extra $6000 per year you spend on elite clubs each year, say for 6 years of ECNL, plus interest. By not doing "elite" club soccer, you have about $40,000 saved up for your kid to go to a UC, which represents about 1/2 tuition for 4 years or full tuition for a CSU for all 4 years.

And your kid can do internships or work part time while in school for a head start in life, get paid another $10,000 per year rather than play soccer for scholarship money. So you get about $80,000 to not play ECNL, plus real world job experience for your kid.

Soccer has a value, but the admissions or scholarship value are highly dubious in my opinion.

 

[GT45]

Four years ago, Riley Jackson was cut from her local ODP tryouts. Yesterday, she captained the #U17WYNT and dished out three assists in the win over Puerto Rico at the #CWU17

Everyone has their own journey. This is Riley’s

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518969119349129218

Good story.

 

[GT45]

Soccer (sport) has tremendous value that cannot be quantified in dollars. Confidence, social skills, teamwork, work ethic, commitment, friendships, dealing with adversity, family trips, memories. I watched a very shy child grow into a confident young adult, who captained her collegiate team. That social growth and her friendships can be heavily attributed to her experiences and confidence gained in soccer. These are life skills.

 

[Grace T.]

Violin doesn't make you fly across the country and miss the Monday before finals to attend a tournament. Math doesn't make you choose between academics and sport. Being student body president doesn't require $6,000+ per year in fees and travel expense. There are serious questions about the sacrifice/commitment required for ECNL-Level soccer and the payout. And there are a lot of non-ECNL teams requiring similar commitment with false promises of a payout.

Violin being performed at the highest scholarship levels does (the only difference is the school is likely involved in the orchestra competition and will therefore make accommodations on the exam, whereas club soccer probably doesn't get the accommodation. Same with football and basketball BTW which are recruited mostly out of high school). Don't even get me started on water polo, equestrian, fencing, cheerleading or dance. Soccer may very well be among the worst in terms of out of school time and financial commitment but it's not alone there.

 

[Woodwork]

Soccer (sport) has tremendous value that cannot be quantified in dollars. Confidence, social skills, teamwork, work ethic, commitment, friendships, dealing with adversity, family trips, memories. I watched a very shy child grow into a confident young adult, who captained her collegiate team. That social growth and her friendships can be heavily attributed to her experiences and confidence gained in soccer. These are life skills.

So, if I paid $100,000 for my kid to be on the team you describe, you would say I didn't overpay?

 

[Multi Sport]

Four years ago, Riley Jackson was cut from her local ODP tryouts. Yesterday, she captained the #U17WYNT and dished out three assists in the win over Puerto Rico at the #CWU17

Everyone has their own journey. This is Riley’s

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518969119349129218

Good story.

My youngest DD was cut from her first club team at U12. Five years later the same coach wanted her back and made room by cutting several girls who he had kept five years earlier.

My DD played four years of collegiate soccer and earned over 100k in scholarship money. For her, it worked out. Her younger brother was hit with the injury bug and retired his Senior year.

Nobody has a crystal ball. But I can say that I'm now getting around to projects around the house that I've been waiting on. Oh, and my DD is my ski buddy now. Watching her drop in on Dave's Run and Scottys with me is the best feeling.

 

[Grace T.]

I think we can get to roughly subjective market value. Based on ROI, you can get 80-90% of the value from club soccer by playing AYSO Select and then Elite or whatever and by sticking to teams that travel very locally. Yet, that may cost 20% of what an ECNL team requires all in.

You can factor scholarships in. But weigh that against the extra $6000 per year you spend on elite clubs each year, say for 6 years of ECNL, plus interest. By not doing "elite" club soccer, you have about $40,000 saved up for your kid to go to a UC, which represents about 1/2 tuition for 4 years or full tuition for a CSU for all 4 years.

And your kid can do internships or work part time while in school for a head start in life, get paid another $10,000 per year rather than play soccer for scholarship money. So you get about $80,000 to not play ECNL, plus real world job experience for your kid.

Soccer has a value, but the admissions or scholarship value are highly dubious in my opinion.

This sort of conflates the routes into college. There are "tracks" into colleges which kids get sorted into...it's complicated and gets blurry because of the diversity, legacy and equity (first time college attendee) preferences. And it's not all about the scholarship (in fact many athletic scholarships are packaged as academic scholarships because schools are fiddling with their caps), but about admissions.

The violinist in my hypothetical is on the arts track. As part of their submission, they'll be required to submit a performance piece and may very well be scouted at major music competitions the school performs in. It is expected that the violinist will apply as a music major, or at a minimum as a music minor recruited into a particular school orchestra or band. The soccer athlete is being recruited into the athletic track and it's expected they will take their place on the team...it's a different pool of consideration than the regular academic track. If the violinist or athlete is not going to apply via these tracks, probably spending an inordinate amount of time on them is not warranted (particularly since if they are applying to private schools, the time needs to be directed elsewhere such as the aforementioned fake charities, testing prep, other extracurriculars they will focus on in college, particularly in the sophomore and junior years). If the violinist or athlete is not going the art/athletic track, then yes may as well play local than sink all the money into that travel and fees. It checks the "well rounded" box for the application, and other than checking that box it's not going to get you much on the admission essay (public schools are much more straight forward and have admission equations for the academic route which include things like GPA, high school/state of origin, test scores and diversity scores).

But the worst thing you can do when applying to a private school that requires essays/interviews is spend all you time in an activity (such as playing the piano) and then declare you have no interest in playing piano in college. The elite piano player that wants to be a doctor or the published author that wants to be a business MBA and go to wall street has a lot of explaining to do as to why if they are so passionate about this activity, they are so willing to drop it wholesale when they get to college.

 

[Woodwork]

Violin being performed at the highest scholarship levels does (the only difference is the school is likely involved in the orchestra competition and will therefore make accommodations on the exam, whereas club soccer probably doesn't get the accommodation. Same with football and basketball BTW which are recruited mostly out of high school). Don't even get me started on water polo, equestrian, fencing, cheerleading or dance. Soccer may very well be among the worst in terms of out of school time and financial commitment but it's not alone there.

I posit that the school accommodations make all the difference, though. Club soccer lives in its own world and way too often loses sight of its place in the grand scheme.

 

[Woodwork]

This sort of conflates the routes into college. There are "tracks" into colleges which kids get sorted into...it's complicated and gets blurry because of the diversity, legacy and equity (first time college attendee) preferences. And it's not all about the scholarship (in fact many athletic scholarships are packaged as academic scholarships because schools are fiddling with their caps), but about admissions.

The violinist in my hypothetical is on the arts track. As part of their submission, they'll be required to submit a performance piece and may very well be scouted at major music competitions the school performs in. It is expected that the violinist will apply as a music major, or at a minimum as a music minor recruited into a particular school orchestra or band. The soccer athlete is being recruited into the athletic track and it's expected they will take their place on the team...it's a different pool of consideration than the regular academic track. If the violinist or athlete is not going to apply via these tracks, probably spending an inordinate amount of time on them is not warranted (particularly since if they are applying to private schools, the time needs to be directed elsewhere such as the aforementioned fake charities, testing prep, other extracurriculars they will focus on in college, particularly in the sophomore and junior years). If the violinist or athlete is not going the athletic track, then yes may as well play local than sink all the money into that travel and fees. It checks the "well rounded" box for the application, and other than checking that box it's not going to get you much on the admission essay (public schools are much more straight forward and have admission equations for the academic route which include things like GPA, high school/state of origin, test scores and diversity scores).

But the worst thing you can do when applying to a private school that requires essays/interviews is spend all you time in an activity (such as playing the piano) and then declare you have no interest in playing piano in college.

I knew a violinist who went to an ivy-league equivalent and graduated with honors as a music major, then played in orchestras, founded a non-profit, and taught high school music. The equivalent amount of time she invested in playing violin was less than what was required for a kid who ultimately got recruited to play soccer at a local CSU but didn't even get a soccer degree at the end. Are you arguing in favor of Soccer as the path or are you arguing that there are definitely better ones? Are you agreeing that soccer is a waste of time in relation to other school-oriented things if they aren't going to play in college?