Don't deflect. Are you saying you wrote a letter to Calsouth and said that you are pulling your kiddos out of soccer if the clubs are not held accountable?
GunScare @ Albion Cup?
- Thread starter PruritusAniFC
- Start date
Is CalSouth aware of the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
Should CalSouth have put out a statement that they are aware and investigating? Yes.
What I've come to learn about most (not all) clubs and soccer organizations is they suck at communication. Regardless, I at least know they are looking into it, so I'm willing to see what happens.
That said, if it is a week before State Cup and nothing has been done, I'll be the first one picketing in front of their offices in Fullerton. I'd hope others would join so at least we could say we tried to make soccer safer for our kids.
Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
Should CalSouth have put out a statement that they are aware and investigating? Yes.
What I've come to learn about most (not all) clubs and soccer organizations is they suck at communication. Regardless, I at least know they are looking into it, so I'm willing to see what happens.
That said, if it is a week before State Cup and nothing has been done, I'll be the first one picketing in front of their offices in Fullerton. I'd hope others would join so at least we could say we tried to make soccer safer for our kids.
I would agree that a good parent doesn't guarantee a good kid and vice versa, but I would be willing to bet that it's more likely to have a child with bad behavior if the parent has bad behavior and vice versa.
I guess what I'd say is that a child's values/behavior is not statistically independent of parental values/ behavior
People act like there have not been scuffles and fights at youth sporting events before here. To be perfectly honest, the thing that scares me the most is the actions that will be taken, because so many people freak out. No gun was even there. A fight broke out. A delinquent child ran on a field and sucker punched a kid. I went to a junior high in Arizona where there was a fist fight after school on a weekly basis year round. I don't want violence around my kid, but watch the news. It's around us all. Noone wants this at our tournaments, but competition can bring the best and the worst in people. Don't blame winning, drinking, or competition. I would bet a lot of money everyone on the field was sober especially the delinquent that sucker punched a 10 year old.
Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged? Games were disrupted and people panicked, but again, NO GUN OR WEAPON! I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!
Please take a picture and post it. Maybe you can get the press to come out.
There's no deflection here @Fact. I answered you clearly. This issue is important. It's not about play time, field conditions, whether direct v. possession is better, or how to eliminate all these closed up leagues to create a cheaper SoCal soccer environment.
This is about kids running for their lives and searching for their parents in fear while they should be enjoy playing their soccer games. We were lucky no one got trampled and seriously hurt this time, but we might not get so lucky next time and it could be any of our children.
I believe CalSouth and Albion will do the right things and our jobs as customers should be letting them know how important this issue is to us.
If my children were at Albion, I'd reach out to Noah and let him know that we will not be coming back if the decision is to sweep it under the rug but we will definitely be a committed to the club and believe they really care about the kids if they resolved this incident in a manner that will prevent further incidents.
Trust me, this will all be forgotten by the second week of State Cup, other than the people from teams that were not involved and truly traumatized. Calsouth, the clubs and teams involved will brush it off and move on. I am not saying this is right, just what has happened in the past.
Separating fans seems like such a simple solution, unfortunately no one ever enforces it and you always get the parents that go on the free world rant. Calsouth should make this a rule and not let it up to the leagues and make parents sign an agreement at the beginning of the season so that they cannot claim that they did not know.
Being serious as well as jokingly, I hope Albion does not have the same council representation as Surf. If so, they will muddle this situation and manipulate Cal South.
Still did not answer the question of whether you are quitting soccer if Calsouth does not take action. But that was a given.
Also, nice how you completely ignore the other team that was involved and probably more culpable. Why do you fail to mention the Aztecs? Is it because you hate Albion and want to see their demise? I am not a fan of Noah but at least I can be objective and realize that these types of incidents (minus the gun guy and resulting panic of innocent families) happens all the time and yet little too no action results.
They don't but he is in the same class.
What do you mean by "issue" If you watch the videos on youtube of either team, you'll note neither team hits the exemplary of what sidelines should behave like.
The law recognizes the right to defend another, but as I outlined above there are limitations. The possible responses range from: putting yourself between the and taking the beating, separating them, taking the beating and responding back proportionately, sucker punching back, smacking the crap out of the assailant, smacking the crap out of the assailant including once he's down or retreated, and pulling a weapon on the assailant. Considering the response must be reasonable and proportionate, some of these are more o.k. than others. I don't think we've seen a video of the parent intervention, and even if we had, my guess is this probably lies in the grey area in the middle of the spectrum, which would mean you both have a point and reasonable people would disagree. And yes, the fact that an assailant was a minor changes things, but so does the fact that the victim was a minor (who was also engaged in an altercation on the field). The relative sizes of individuals too might also be relevant, as what others were doing to protect the minor victim.
Yes, yes we will....whenever lawyers get involved things always get a little worse (and BTW, assuming no actual physical injury in the fleeing by anyone, the law recognizes emotional and mental damages...they have to be serious but that's what a good lawyer does).
I am surprised that to date CalSouth hasn't released something saying they are investigating the issue and will release a statement in due course, but I'd venture part of the reason is they are probably vetting the response with counsel since it has legal implications for things going forward. That said, pickett? Let me know when and where.
No bueno. Hopefully they are not a poster on the forum trying to convince us otherwise.
Lambchop
GOLD
The interesting thing about stupidity is that when you are stupid you don't know it.
Coaches at Albion have told me that he does look at this site, but I am not sure if he has a screen name.
Contacting the News Outlets that ran the story is another way to put pressure on CalSouth!
Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely. People BELIEVED he had a gun. I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting. My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun. There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too. Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter. What are the damages? There are kids in counseling this week. And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff. This is real and lasting anxiety. I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was. What are the damages? That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer. There are plenty of damages. If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare. But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest. Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation. That is not the point. That is certainly not my point. I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer. To learn teamwork. To learn perseverance. To build confidence. I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend. Be part of a solution.
Someone can act like they have a gun anywhere, anytime. How do you stop that? I don't know the legalities on faking a weapon without a real illegal purpose? That action is what caused what you are describing, but how can the tournament, club, etc. stop this action? Anyone with a backpack can do this.
ItsJustSoccer
BRONZE
Agree completely, this response was spot on.
Once my kids' school got wind of this incident on Monday, they have offered counseling services to any child that was in attendance at this tournament. Clearly the schools, that weren't there, have an understanding of the severity of the situation....lets hope Cal South gets on board.
Once my kids' school got wind of this incident on Monday, they have offered counseling services to any child that was in attendance at this tournament. Clearly the schools, that weren't there, have an understanding of the severity of the situation....lets hope Cal South gets on board.
@Fact - you're talking like Espola right now. (Sorry Espola - you do make me laugh). Yes, I did contact Calsouth and let them know my children will not be playing Calsouth soccer if this will be ignored. I also know others who have done the same. I'm hoping more will too. There are other leagues (NPL), futsal, and indoors.
I failed to mention Aztecas only in the last few because of Ziggy's interview but I've always defended the Albion parent and consistently said both sidelines should be punished bc there was no need for anyone but the Albion parent of the attacked child to run into the field.
I don't know anything about what happened to the guy with the gun except that the cops decided to release him and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South Parents after the cops reviewed evidence. I'm going to accept that the cops have no reason to protect the "gun yelling guy" and did their job properly while reviewing the evidence.
I like Albion and they will not be destroyed after this. Noah has done a great job bringing competition to Surf and bringing ASC to San Diego. @Fact, the only person I know who acts like they always want to take Albion down is you and the one time I agree that Albion needs to do something, you seem protective. I want Albion parents to talk to Noah and let them know how important this issue is to the Albion family.
I'm having a hard time getting consistent info regarding Azteca but I found this email. Hopefully it works. Azteca parents probably have the correct information. Please post it or use it to relay the message that this is not acceptable and you expect them to take action or you'll go to a competitor. Please send the same message to CalSouth.
interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com <interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com>;
@Fact - let's work together to make sure this doesn't get swept under the rug rather than attack each other for our slight differences.
I hope that when I say nothing will be done that will help prevent these issues from happening again, I am saying that out of frustration. It is inexcusable when any coach see a player or parent act up, coaches act up, parents allow other parents from their team act up, parents don't have consequences for their kiddos taking a cheap shot at another player during the game, accepting that smack talking ok, .....
There are 2 separate questions. One is the legality of faking a gun. This triggers a bunch of potential civil and criminal liabilities for the individual faking it, but in this case the guy is claiming as a defense that he acted in self-defense out of fear for his safety. Whether he did or didn't (and what role he had in instigating things) we just don't know right now and is a question of fact. Even if the cops let him go, the DA might still be reviewing.
Then there's the liability of the venue and organizers. The problem there is the main claim is going to be negligence. The questions there include is could something like this have been foreseen (given the state of the sidelines today it was only a matter of time, but especially after this incident that's going to be hard to get around in the future), and what steps are reasonable for the venue/event to take. Should there be metal detectors before coming onto the field (like there are at theme parks and sporting venues now)? Should bags be banned (like at sporting venues)? What about exits if people were having to climb over fences to get away? What about field conditions if people were tripping over holes to get away? What about field marshals...how quickly did they respond and how quick were the police to get there and what level of training did the field marshals have? Were the field marshals trained in evacuating people in the event of an emergency? Were the teams notified of evacuation routes and evacuation procedures (like we do with cruise ships and airplanes)? Was it acceptable to have no security there, and does that security need to be armed? There aren't any clear answers on this but it's a shifting line as things evolve (stadiums banning bags for example is a recent thing after the Uk stadium bombings).
A lot of the changes will likely be driven by insurers who will exclude liability for events if certain steps aren't taken (and venue owners will insist on the insurance because they don't want to be held responsible for someone else's decisions).