Get ready folks

[SuckItTrebek]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade? Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade? Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

and all this is exactly why it was so stupid to make a change.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade? Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

I don't think this will be an issue since in soccer it works the opposite way. The best players play up an age group(s) at the highest level and are still impactful. Nobody is going to (or at least, shouldn't) brag about playing down an age group or two and how they're killing it there

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade?

It's been discussed many, many times in this 70+ page thread. No, it's not possible. It's not grade level - it's a cut-off date like it's always been. It's just now Sep 1 instead of Jan 1. That's it. Tournaments aren't likely to do anything differently - as all they ever do is specify that the players have valid player cards from one of the specified organizations. And the organizations giving out player cards are the ones charged with interpreting and following the rules.

Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

Other sports that do often go by grade level, like Basketball, also tend to implement cut-off dates to deal properly with holdbacks, double-holdbacks, and any similar attempt to playing in a lower grade. Specifics by tournament, and enforcement of those specifics, varies widely from tournament to tournament and over differing geographies. The hope (at least my hope), is that soccer does not move towards a similar system - as it is a complete cluster in its implementation. The difference between soccer and basketball organizationally is that soccer already has a very well accepted player card setup, used by almost everybody nationally - basketball is much more fragmented.

and all this is exactly why it was so stupid to make a change.

There are many reasons to be supportive or dismissive of the date change - but misunderstanding what's actually changing, and posing hypotheticals that have nothing to do with what's actually changing, probably isn't one of them.

 

[CAZZZ]

I am still waiting for the answers to these two questions.

1. Will MLSN and GA also switch to SY with 9/1 cutoff?
2. What is the transit plan for the league to switch to SY? It is hard to believe the league will do nothing for 25/26. The BY registration does not mean the league can not have its own rule.

The answers to these two questions will decide how we plan our tryout practice. US Soccer should publish each league's transit plan as soon as possible.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Re: #1, who knows. They have decided so far to not publicly state their direction, so everyone can guess their motivations and likely choice - and it might not be soon.

Re: #2, what do you mean specifically by transit plan? If you mean some interim rules to make it easier to slide to the new date, why would that be necessary? When forming teams for Fall 26, use the new requirements for eligible birthdates. I'm missing the complication here. Not that it's a minor change, I get that it is huge in terms of team composition - but it doesn't seem terribly hard to understand or implement.

 

[CAZZZ]

Re: #1, who knows. They have decided so far to not publicly state their direction, so everyone can guess their motivations and likely choice - and it might not be soon.

Re: #2, what do you mean specifically by transit plan? If you mean some interim rules to make it easier to slide to the new date, why would that be necessary? When forming teams for Fall 26, use the new requirements for eligible birthdates. I'm missing the complication here. Not that it's a minor change, I get that it is huge in terms of team composition - but it doesn't seem terribly hard to understand or implement.

If ECNL extends their current 8th trapped grader rule to all age groups this fall, I would like to switch from GA to ECNL. If there is no transit plan and GA stays in BY, I will stay in GA for next season. So I really need to know that information to plan the tryout.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Got it. As you know, ECNL hasn't yet committed in any way that they will expand the 24/25 Trapped Player rule for 25/26 in prep for 26/27. Here's what the rules have right now (attached below). Hopefully - GA gives you the information you are asking for soon enough in order to make a decision. But it actually could be one of the potential reasons that they're slow-walking a public response.

 

[TopesWin]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade? Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

There's two misconceptions in your question:
The important one: Bobby Boucher was not held back, but rather homeschooled by his beloved Momma, who never allowed him go to school because schools, "are the devil." While working as the waterboy for a college football team, he was discovered to have unstoppable football skills when enraged. This talent may or may not have been due to an enlarged medulla oblongata. He only played against college athletes his own age.

You might be mistaking Bobby Boucher with the much lamer eponymous character, Billy Madison, from the far inferior movie of the same name. If you haven't seen it, you can skip it.

The less important one: there is not actually a "school grade year" rule. The rule is that everyone plays with kids their own age, but now the age cutoffs are from 9/1 of any given year to 8/31 of the following year. Whether you were held back a grade or more has no impact.

 

[DeaconSoccer12]

If ECNL extends their current 8th trapped grader rule to all age groups this fall, I would like to switch from GA to ECNL. If there is no transit plan and GA stays in BY, I will stay in GA for next season. So I really need to know that information to plan the tryout.

It seems like once ECNL announces when the change willl occur and a possible plan like the one you mentioned, GA will be forced to respond. If they do not also move to school year, they will likely have an exodus of fall birthdays looking for ECNL/RL spots.

Do ECNL and GA teams basically run August-July? When are "tryouts" for ECNL and GA teams? My daughter is a 2014 so not yet at that age.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

I don't think this will be an issue since in soccer it works the opposite way. The best players play up an age group(s) at the highest level and are still impactful. Nobody is going to (or at least, shouldn't) brag about playing down an age group or two and how they're killing it there

your serious? Do you know how many ECRL teams had ECNL girls on their teams during the last ECRL playoffs? These rules and dates are definitely going to be exploited to win games. Your absolutely bonkers if you think coaches and DOCs will not take advantage of this. I know of a team that had what 5or6 NL girls playing at the RL playoffs. The SoCal landscape is win at all costs.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Do ECNL and GA teams basically run August-July? When are "tryouts" for ECNL and GA teams? My daughter is a 2014 so not yet at that age.

Details on tryout dates can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19i_HAUsN75dvDyLkg76QK9mQYbZ_MIbj/

Exhibit C lists the tryout dates for ECNL for the 2024/2025 season. The rules also state that anyone who isn't already on a team (or has been released from their team) can tryout for a new team any time during the year. They just can't tryout for another team while already on a team.



For younger age groups, there are differing times/dates. Here's a screenshot from the So Cal Blues website, as one example:

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

your serious? Do you know how many ECRL teams had ECNL girls on their teams during the last ECRL playoffs? These rules and dates are definitely going to be exploited to win games. Your absolutely bonkers if you think coaches and DOCs will not take advantage of this. I know of a team that had what 5or6 NL girls playing at the RL playoffs. The SoCal landscape is win at all costs.

I agree with you, in that there will always be those who take advantage of the rules (or their own interpretation of the rules) to make their team more competitive in the postseason. As far as I can tell, here's what they are supposed to be allowed to do:


But if it can be shown they are pulling NL girls of the same age bracket down to the RL team, while that NL player was still rostered for that same age group at the NL level, I'm not sure why people are just whining about it instead of calling out clubs for cheating. Get them disqualified, or have ECNL explain why they are allowing clubs to flaunt their rules to win games.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

I agree with you, in that there will always be those who take advantage of the rules (or their own interpretation of the rules) to make their team more competitive in the postseason. As far as I can tell, here's what they are supposed to be allowed to do:

View attachment 26222
But if it can be shown they are pulling NL girls of the same age bracket down to the RL team, while that NL player was still rostered for that same age group at the NL level, I'm not sure why people are just whining about it instead of calling out clubs for cheating. Get them disqualified, or have ECNL explain why they are allowing clubs to flaunt their rules to win games.

all you have to do is roster NL girls on your RL roster. They can play NL during league and then go down to RL for Playoffs. You could field a whole NL team at the RL playoffs like this. It was all done in the rules. Shady but within the ECNL rules. My point is coaches and DOC will use these new rule changes and then the fact that different leagues have different age rules its going to be a disaster. Glad my kid is almost done with this.

 

[CAZZZ]

all you have to do is roster NL girls on your RL roster. They can play NL during league and then go down to RL for Playoffs. You could field a whole NL team at the RL playoffs like this. It was all done in the rules. Shady but within the ECNL rules. My point is coaches and DOC will use these new rule changes and then the fact that different leagues have different age rules its going to be a disaster. Glad my kid is almost done with this.

I hope ECNL can have some rules tailored for 25/26 and release them soon so we can plan.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

all you have to do is roster NL girls on your RL roster. They can play NL during league and then go down to RL for Playoffs. You could field a whole NL team at the RL playoffs like this. It was all done in the rules. Shady but within the ECNL rules. My point is coaches and DOC will use these new rule changes and then the fact that different leagues have different age rules its going to be a disaster. Glad my kid is almost done with this.

This would be a clear violation of Exhibit E: Roster Integrity Policy. (link to doc) Certainly not only in intent - but by letter as well. You can't have more than 4 NL players on any RL game roster at any time. If a ton of NL players are put on RL to get around this (yet they have clear evidence that they still play all season on NL), it's strange that nobody is calling out the club(s) that believe this to be a "legal" loophole.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

Nobody really cares about RL playoffs. ECNL players do not want to play down for their RL team.

Which club and team did this last year? We should call this out in case they try to do it again this year.

 

[Lemmon Pepper Lou]

Nobody really cares about RL playoffs. ECNL players do not want to play down for their RL team.

Which club and team did this last year? We should call this out in case they try to do it again this year.

The shorter list would be who didn't do this

 

[j2five]

Someone had asked about what is going to happen with tournaments. Is it possible that the U(insert number) system will go away and will be replaced with Grade(X), for example 6th grade, 10th grade? Because with this new system your teams will have varying ages but the only consistency is the that everyone on a team is attending school at the same grade level. And then that opens another can of worms: What about kids who are at a grade level either above or below their typical age? Does my kid in 8th grade have to play against Bobby Bouche who was held back 3 different years and is the only "8th grader" who drives himself to school and uses the same brand of shaver as his P.E. coach?

Youth baseball has a birthday cutoff that is in the middle of the year. Instead of U10, U11, U12, etc., the age groups are referred to as 10U, 11U, 12U, etc. It's not related to grade level.

Is it more confusing initially? Absolutely
Can you figure it out in a few minutes? Yes - it's easy to find calculators and age charts
Is it a big deal once you figure it out? No

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

The shorter list would be who didn't do this

Call them out. People like to think that good RL teams are sneaking in ECNL players when they aren't. Our Beach RL's do not sneak in ECNL players. ECNL might bring in RL players to help, or RL might bring in NPL players to help. But very rarely do players drop down a level to help...and when they do it's usually because they're about to get cut and get shipped down for the coming season.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Call them out. People like to think that good RL teams are sneaking in ECNL players when they aren't. Our Beach RL's do not sneak in ECNL players. ECNL might bring in RL players to help, or RL might bring in NPL players to help. But very rarely do players drop down a level to help...and when they do it's usually because they're about to get cut and get shipped down for the coming season.

Makes sense. Beach in particular has been a bit of a weird case in the recent past. In some age groups (girls), their RL team is as strong as their NL team. RL is head and shoulders above their peers, while NL is not as competitive with theirs. At this point, it's only the case for their 2011G teams, there is more of a separation between the two in the older ages:



When this happens, if the teams are comparable in performance, there are only a couple options. Either the B team has much better coaching, the club itself isn't great about assessing whether a player should be on the A or B team, or they're skirting the rules and playing some of the same impactful players on both teams. It makes sense why someone external would assume the latter - even with zero knowledge of who is actually playing where.