Get ready folks

[Zeke]

How would a school year league address the following?

- kid started school a year late?
- kids school cutoff date is in September?
- kids school cutoff date is in June?
- kid was academically held back in school

While you're thinking about it. Most leagues address exceptions to the rules with a waiver process.

Depends on whether the league goes by “graduation year” or “August 1”.

If they go with August 1, then you just look at the birth month and that’s your answer. Born 8/1/08-7/31/09? then you’re an 8/9, and can play 8/9 (or older.)

If they go “graduation year”, then all your questions become important and it depends on how they wrote the policy. The general rule would be that Freshmen play with Freshmen and Sophomores play with Sophomores. Exception that kids who skipped a grade would probably not be required to play with the older kids

And, if they go grad year, they will have to figure out what to do with homeschooled kids. Homeschool parents are used to being able to declare their own grade level. That doesn’t work for sports age groupings. (A homeschool parent with a 12 year old “freshman” is not a big deal, but you don’t really want a 16 year old boy in your “freshman” league because his tiger dad thinks he found a loophole.)

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Have you listened to ECNLs podcast reguarding this topic?

I hadn't. I now have. (link to specific podcast, ~ 3 min mark to ~ 10 min mark)

ECNL president says a couple things in response to a question about this potential switch. They are getting more feedback from club operators and related parties over time that while there would be short-term chaos, there is a long-term benefit to switching back to SY from BY. Survey results they've also seen show 50/50 for/against, with most of the against due to the chaos, not because it's a bad idea in a vacuum. He says that while ECNL could probably the change alone, it would make it so challenging for the rest of the ecosystem and club operators, that they almost certainly wouldn't make the change unless a significant majority of leagues all made the same change as well. He also does point to trapped players as a problem that this would fix.

So he, and ECNL, are certainly positive on this potential change, but not sure any of us are learning anything we don't already know - so we'll see what happens in the short-term.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

BTW there's a new rumor going around that to address different school start dates ECNL plans to allow clubs in different states to define their own cutoff dates.

This is just another way to address what I was describing. It will also create more waiver type situations as players move between states.

I thought you were against people spreading unfounded rumors. I don't believe you. Post your source.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I thought you were against people spreading unfounded rumors. I don't believe you. Post your source.

I am against spreading unfounded rumors. But this group doesn't seem to care so might as well play the same game.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

What's annoying is that people are spreading rumors that may or may not be true. Then when one happens to land they say look see I was right. When they don't land it's off to another rumor.

I am against spreading unfounded rumors. (unless it agrees with what I'm trying to argue)

 

[amuseinla]

A lot of trapped players are going to be disappointed. If you have the technical skills and determination, size doesn’t matter in soccer.

We have a couple who like the team they are on and wouldn't want to switch. But if this change happens, they will now have to compete with kids born August through December the entire year before them for their current roster spots. It seems like now they would be at a bigger disadvantage instead of being helped.

 

[Carlsbad7]

There's a difference between saying.

Here's a rumor about an option being discussed.

And...

Here's a rumor that's guaranteed to happen because I think it will.

As an example the BY to SY change rumor was a lock for happening in Aug, then it slipped to Oct, then Nov. The number of leagues participating in the change shifts from everyone to maybe only ECNL. Finally if a change is agreed to implementation shifts from the second half of 24/25 to over the next two years.

The only substantiated info is that ECNL leadership wants to change from BY to SY. DPL has confirmed that talks between different leagues on switching from BY to SY is occurring and that DPL will abide by US Soccer's decision on the matter.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Here's a rumor that's guaranteed to happen because I think it will.

Nobody's saying that. In most cases you're saying that they are saying that to try and discredit them.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

We have a couple who like the team they are on and wouldn't want to switch. But if this change happens, they will now have to compete with kids born August through December the entire year before them for their current roster spots. It seems like now they would be at a bigger disadvantage instead of being helped.

The potential change affects kids born in 5 out of the 12 months. So 42% of all players are going to be able to make a choice with the new cut-off to try and stay with an older team or instead play with a younger team. There are certainly going to be those that choose one or the other to be best for them based on a variety of reasons.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Nobody's saying that. In most cases you're saying that they are saying that to try and discredit them.

I'm not going to go through this thread to find all it's going to happen guaranteed comments.

Call it discrediting if you want. My issue is that a BY to SY change is not guaranteed for anyone other than ECNL. Assuming leadership chooses to go SY even if everyone else chose not to.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

You attacked someone repeatedly for sharing rumors.

You then did it yourself.

If it were still shameful to be hypocritical, that would be a problem - but the good news is that many clearly feel it's no longer a problem.

 

[Carlsbad7]

You attacked someone repeatedly for sharing rumors.

You then did it yourself.

If it were still shameful to be hypocritical, that would be a problem - but the good news is that many clearly feel it's no longer a problem.

Sigh... As I said before there's a difference between sharing a rumor by itself and sharing a rumor while also pretending that it's a fact.

 

[Bells]

I honestly don't understand what problem this change really solves. There are a fair number of kids who play up so they don't (and won't with the change) match the assumed graduating year of their teammates. And there are kids whose parents chose to hold them back and start school a year later, so they wouldn't match the assumed graduating year of their teammates with the change. So even with this change one still can't assume every kid on a team is graduating the same year.

Yes...there will be a few trapped players. But it will eliminate 90% of the problem. Also- a big part of it is to keep participation in US soccer up. Kids are more likely to play with their schoolmates.

For those that believe: if a player is good they would be the one top teams anyways. 6-12 months makes a big difference. Just look at the rosters of the top teams. Do you really believe all the kids born August- December just happen to suck at soccer? Yes...it can push a good player to become great...(bc they are basically playing a year up)...but that same can be said for kids born in July going forward.

Either way..you will have a cutoff date and an RAE..but the point US Soccer is making is why not do it so we have less trapped players and increase participation rates. It will be one year of chaos and then back to normal...just like last time.

 

[Bells]

We have a couple who like the team they are on and wouldn't want to switch. But if this change happens, they will now have to compete with kids born August through December the entire year before them for their current roster spots. It seems like now they would be at a bigger disadvantage instead of being helped.

Isn't that the same as the kids born in August- December now? They are playing against kids 7-12 months older.

If you have a January-July Birthday and they are good...it won't change anything. If not...they eventually get moved the team B team...which means they were never really that good..they were just older.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

This is all because ECNL wants to go younger and younger. They don't know what to do with these kids that are on "ECNL" teams and not in high school yet with the 3+ month break. This age change thing was started by the ECNL. If they can get this changed then they can go even younger with the teams and make even more money. I hope the other leagues realize this. ECNL is a business that needs to generate growth year after year. How do you do that? Get more customers.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

They already took DPL's top teams in SoCal with this ECRL2 league they created this year. The age change is just another way to get more teams under their umbrella and control them 365 days a year.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Yes...there will be a few trapped players. But it will eliminate 90% of the problem. Also- a big part of it is to keep participation in US soccer up. Kids are more likely to play with their schoolmates.

For those that believe: if a player is good they would be the one top teams anyways. 6-12 months makes a big difference. Just look at the rosters of the top teams. Do you really believe all the kids born August- December just happen to suck at soccer? Yes...it can push a good player to become great...(bc they are basically playing a year up)...but that same can be said for kids born in July going forward.

Either way..you will have a cutoff date and an RAE..but the point US Soccer is making is why not do it so we have less trapped players and increase participation rates. It will be one year of chaos and then back to normal...just like last time.

Just to be clear...

The assumption that soccer participation rates will go up if players can play with other kids in their grade is an opinion. ECNL leadership shares this opinion and I believe said so on a podcast.

ECNL leadership is championing the proposal to move from BY to SY. US Soccer has not made a statement on the matter.

The way it works is that ECNL champions the proposal to US Club Soccer (ECNLs sanctioning group). Then US Club Soccer if they share ECNLs opinion will table the discussion with US Soccer. This is what's rumored to be happening in November.

People are starting rumors and passing them off as facts to try and create FOMO. They also believe that ECNL is negotiating in the background with different leagues so the decision will be made before the rumored Nov meeting. Which logically makes sense.

The reason everyone is talking about ECNL and SOCAL leagues is because they both use US Club Soccer for sanctioning and they represent a large number of players. In theory they can make things happen because together they're a majority.

 

[Carlsbad7]

This is all because ECNL wants to go younger and younger. They don't know what to do with these kids that are on "ECNL" teams and not in high school yet with the 3+ month break. This age change thing was started by the ECNL. If they can get this changed then they can go even younger with the teams and make even more money. I hope the other leagues realize this. ECNL is a business that needs to generate growth year after year. How do you do that? Get more customers.

If all the leagues change from BY to SY at the same time nothing changes in respect to leagues and advantages gained by switching to SY.

If ECNL goes alone there will be definate advantages and you are correct the ECNL/GA turf wars will continue into the youngest youngers.

Leagues like SOCAL will be forced to make a decision. This might allow another league for youngers that's BY to take half of its member clubs.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

If all the leagues change from BY to SY at the same time nothing changes in respect to leagues and advantages gained by switching to SY.

Not true. It fixes the 3 month gap problem that ECNL has right now for trapped players. The other leagues do not have the problem. If they let the change go through they are fixing a problem for ECNL which will allow them to go younger with all their teams.

 

[Footy30]

They would play with the other kids who are sophomores by age. 8/01/08 to 7/31/09.

This group also includes Juniors who skipped a grade and Freshmen who were held back.

(Assuming they go with birth month.)

Thank you!

 

[Scrub It Kook]

The potential change affects kids born in 5 out of the 12 months. So 42% of all players are going to be able to make a choice with the new cut-off to try and stay with an older team or instead play with a younger team. There are certainly going to be those that choose one or the other to be best for them based on a variety of reasons.

I don't know that all will be able to make a choice. I think there will be some involuntary shuffling depending on the players level, biological development, etc. In looking at my kids team, about half have Q3 or Q4 birth dates, but about half of them would likely stay with the olders and half would likely move to the youngers.