Get ready folks

[amuseinla]

U14 is the last year when players are all in Middle School

U15 is when the trapped players are in Middle School and the rest of the team is in High School.

If ECNL was to grandfather teams they'd do it to U15 and up.

I think changing to school year is a mistake + a waste of time. Trapped players are generally better than their grade level classmates. If I was a recruiter I'd prioritize trapped players over grade level equivalents. Parents are the ones that like to complain about all the perceived issues trapped players have to persevere.

What is a trapped player?

 

[Footy30]

Yes, a currently BY defined 2008 with an Aug 1st to Dec 31st birthday (aka a "trapped player" because while they're the same age as their teammates they're also a grade behind in school) would be able to play down on a SY defined 2009 team.

The same applies to all age groups if a league chooses to change from BY to SY.

Thank You

 

[Zeke]

okay now it's time for someone to explain this to me like the lost parent that I am.... My explanation I gave to another poster last month now seems moot.

If there is a kid Aug. 30th 2008 (sophomore most 08s are Juniors) if the rule changes can this kid now play 2009? (majority of sophomore are 09s)

I don't mind the changes in youth soccer because it's always happening I just need it to be clear... when the age matrix changed years ago it affected my eldest kids but it honestly wasn't that big of a deal..... if my memory serves me correct.

Thanks in advance

They would play with the other kids who are sophomores by age. 8/01/08 to 7/31/09.

This group also includes Juniors who skipped a grade and Freshmen who were held back.

(Assuming they go with birth month.)

 

[Zeke]

What are the rules for these waivers currently, I assume they would just flow through? If there are none, then I assume there would be none of the dates change.

Waivers arent really a thing. If you were born in 2013, you can play 2013 or older.

I have heard of one case of a girl playing on a boy's team one year down. The reason for the exception was bio banding. It didn't last long. Other than that, I haven't heard of any "waivers".

 

[Carlsbad7]

Waivers arent really a thing. If you were born in 2013, you can play 2013 or older.

I have heard of one case of a girl playing on a boy's team one year down. The reason for the exception was bio banding. It didn't last long. Other than that, I haven't heard of any "waivers".

How would a school year league address the following?

- kid started school a year late?
- kids school cutoff date is in September?
- kids school cutoff date is in June?
- kid was academically held back in school

While you're thinking about it. Most leagues address exceptions to the rules with a waiver process.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

How would a school year league address the following?

Not sure if this particularly fun debate gets resolved until the rules are leaked/finalized. You're convinced it's a school year league in everything but name, others are convinced it's a set of dates that you're incorrectly conflating with school year, and listing all problems that may occur if that were in fact the case.

 

[whatithink]

How would a school year league address the following?

- kid started school a year late?
- kids school cutoff date is in September?
- kids school cutoff date is in June?
- kid was academically held back in school

While you're thinking about it. Most leagues address exceptions to the rules with a waiver process.

Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.

 

[TeamDadJokes]

How would a school year league address the following?

- kid started school a year late?
- kids school cutoff date is in September?
- kids school cutoff date is in June?
- kid was academically held back in school

While you're thinking about it. Most leagues address exceptions to the rules with a waiver process.

You’re taking the name school year literally.

It’s not anything new. We had this before we went to birth year. The actual grade they’re in does not matter.

The calendar just shifts to a different set of cutoff dates. It’s not as complicated as everyone is making it out to be.

We just go back to the old naming system to
12U 8/1/2012-7/31/2013
13U 8/1/2011-7/31/2012
14U 8/1/2010-7/31/2011
15U 8/1/2009-7/31/2010
And etc

 

[whatithink]

Not sure if this particularly fun debate gets resolved until the rules are leaked/finalized. You're convinced it's a school year league in everything but name, others are convinced it's a set of dates that you're incorrectly conflating with school year, and listing all problems that may occur if that were in fact the case.

SoCal literally said it was a revert back to the 8/1 to 7/31 date range in their communication.

 

[amuseinla]

No, it would go by birthdays not but graduation year still. Only thing that would change would be calendar year dates versus school year dates.

This was exactly how it was in 2015/16 when I an AYSO Commisioner right before the birth year change happened.

So any player who is September 2010 but graduating 2028 would be be playing U15 instead of U16 when this rule takes affect. They do not look at class of 2028 or class of 2029 specifically. We assume kids who are in that birth range would be graduating those years just as we assume kids born in birth year are graduating certain class years

I honestly don't understand what problem this change really solves. There are a fair number of kids who play up so they don't (and won't with the change) match the assumed graduating year of their teammates. And there are kids whose parents chose to hold them back and start school a year later, so they wouldn't match the assumed graduating year of their teammates with the change. So even with this change one still can't assume every kid on a team is graduating the same year.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.
Look at the birth cert.

As I said before this is where it all starts. It's also what the SY proponents are using to sell switching from BY to SY.

But just like now with all the squeaky wheel trapped player parents there's going to be squeaky wheel parents whos kid will be a year older then their classmates in school for multiple reasons.

Clubs will want these parents $$$ and they won't care if a player is older

 

[amuseinla]

Hopefully it works out for you. It was a disaster for us. Could never get any other teams to commit to a scrimmage. Had some friendlies with some of the clubs younger teams, but between the youngers league and tournament schedules around the Holiday's it never was much. It is also an age group where one or two years younger is a significant size/development difference. So most coaches/parents don't want their younger players scrimmaging the "Highschool Players". Don't expect the U15 Trapped Player to see any meaningful games from the end of Nov until March. I would heavily recommend a good training schedule focused on fitness and individual skills. The teammates playing in Highschool will see a lot of games against older players in this timeframe and will usually come out of Highschool in good shape, ready to play, if they don't get injured. Most Highschool programs are pure Kick and Run, so the tactical skills of game play will suffer for all players. Your trapped player needs to keep their fitness and touches on point during this three month forced timeout. Club coaches are going to want to hit the ground running in March to fix all the bad Highschool habits; if your player is out of shape from half-hearted training during this time, they are going to be on the bench when they can't catch their breath.

Hopefully it works out for you. It was a disaster for us. Could never get any other teams to commit to a scrimmage. Had some friendlies with some of the clubs younger teams, but between the youngers league and tournament schedules around the Holiday's it never was much. It is also an age group where one or two years younger is a significant size/development difference. So most coaches/parents don't want their younger players scrimmaging the "Highschool Players". Don't expect the U15 Trapped Player to see any meaningful games from the end of Nov until March. I would heavily recommend a good training schedule focused on fitness and individual skills. The teammates playing in Highschool will see a lot of games against older players in this timeframe and will usually come out of Highschool in good shape, ready to play, if they don't get injured. Most Highschool programs are pure Kick and Run, so the tactical skills of game play will suffer for all players. Your trapped player needs to keep their fitness and touches on point during this three month forced timeout. Club coaches are going to want to hit the ground running in March to fix all the bad Highschool habits; if your player is out of shape from half-hearted training during this time, they are going to be on the bench when they can't catch their breath.

I've been trying to understand the purpose of the change. Is this scenario the main reason? Is this why some people wrote that, as an alternative, they could just write waivers to allow these kids to temporarily play down a year so they can continue training in this situation?

 

[Carlsbad7]

Not sure if this particularly fun debate gets resolved until the rules are leaked/finalized. You're convinced it's a school year league in everything but name, others are convinced it's a set of dates that you're incorrectly conflating with school year, and listing all problems that may occur if that were in fact the case.

The reason I'm saying it's a school year league is because the primary reason ECNL wants to make the change is because it addresses the trapped player issue (for the most part).

ECNL feels that grouping players by school grade is the most important thing because it makes recruitment easier for college recruiters. Who only care about player graduation year.

What this means is waivers make sense for kids that are a year older in school. This is because graduation date and appealing to college recruiters is all that matters.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I've been trying to understand the purpose of the change. Is this scenario the main reason? Is this why some people wrote that, as an alternative, they could just write waivers to allow these kids to temporarily play down a year so they can continue training in this situation?

Ironically ECNL already allows this.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

Ironically ECNL already allows this.

they allowed the "trapped" players to play the entire time during the high school break when their club team was playing high school. I'm convinced this is being supported by parents who have a child who will be able to move down a year.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

We just go back to the old naming system to
12U 8/1/2012-7/31/2013
13U 8/1/2011-7/31/2012
14U 8/1/2010-7/31/2011
15U 8/1/2009-7/31/2010
And etc

This is how I see it. Instead of U13, it becomes 13U

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

The reason I'm saying it's a school year league is because the primary reason ECNL wants to make the change is because it addresses the trapped player issue (for the most part).

You can speak for what ECNL's thinking with as much authority as I can speak for what ECNL's thinking (which is none). It's all speculation.

 

[Carlsbad7]

they allowed the "trapped" players to play the entire time during the high school break when their club team was playing high school. I'm convinced this is being supported by parents who have a child who will be able to move down a year.

I looked back a couple of years and I'm pretty sure ECNL allowed players to play down during the high school season since the initial SY to BY change.

I dont believe parents lobbying for trapped players had any influence on the decision.

 

[Carlsbad7]

You can speak for what ECNL's thinking with as much authority as I can speak for what ECNL's thinking (which is none). It's all speculation.

Have you listened to ECNLs podcast reguarding this topic?

 

[whatithink]

As I said before this is where it all starts. It's also what the SY proponents are using to sell switching from BY to SY.

But just like now with all the squeaky wheel trapped player parents there's going to be squeaky wheel parents whos kid will be a year older then their classmates in school for multiple reasons.

Clubs will want these parents $$$ and they won't care if a player is older

It's not allegedly changing to school year; it's changing to a different date range. You are incorrectly hung up on SY. Remove that and it's the same as now, with a different date range, just as it was before it changed to 1/1 to 12/31.

 

[Carlsbad7]

It's not allegedly changing to school year; it's changing to a different date range. You are incorrectly hung up on SY. Remove that and it's the same as now, with a different date range, just as it was before it changed to 1/1 to 12/31.

BTW there's a new rumor going around that to address different school start dates ECNL plans to allow clubs in different states to define their own cutoff dates.

This is just another way to address what I was describing. It will also create more waiver type situations as players move between states.