I see, the age old debate. Good soccer vs winning. The good soccer people say "the wins will come if we keep playing good soccer and our players will be better off in the long run". The winners say "SCOREBOARD" and flex pics of their kids holding trophies on Facebook.
G2010 - How’s the 2022 season going?
- Thread starter TeamDadJokes
- Start date
I see, the age old debate. Good soccer vs winning. The good soccer people say "the wins will come if we keep playing good soccer and our players will be better off in the long run". The winners say "SCOREBOARD" and flex pics of their kids holding trophies on Facebook.
In "the long run" we're all dead.
There has to be a mix between "pretty" and "smash it down their throat" styles of soccer.
There is a solution to Surf’s woes. Join GA and you will have 6 national championship trophies this time next year!
I appreciate the "humor" but you know someone is considering exactly this.
Youth sports is a business and wins = $$$.
Surf wins plenty and they aren't going to bail on ECNL as long as Maverick Sports Travel handles the stay and play for ECNL.
futboldad1
PREMIER
This rankings site is basically worthless based on the above…..Koge is the strongest club in the nation (36 LOL) and have proved it every year for the three years….their top teams are better than surf….plus they just keep adding the best talent……
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
Did you stop reading a couple posts ago? Koge as a club didn't have a 2011 team counted at all, with their existing 2011 team instead assigned to another Slammers org. Now with a full complement of teams, the club rating will change as soon as it is recalculated in the next day or two. My guess is #4 - but won't have to guess soon.
All of this is always going to be based on how full and accurate the incoming game data is for each team / club. This one does look like a pretty big miss, and it's surprising (to me) that nobody in that club or that team realized it until now. To have the best quality/most accurate ratings for your own team / your own club, if something ever does look off, it's just a few clicks to verify that it is seeing all the games that you'd expect. If #10 in CA and #36 in US seemed weirdly low for them, I'm surprised it stayed that way as long as it has - I would think there would have been at least some incentive from someone even loosely affiliated with the club for these things to more accurately reflect their ongoing success.
It's also the case that none of this has anything to do with the individual team ratings, which perhaps most people are looking at rather than the aggregate club ratings. For the team ratings, it doesn't matter a whit which club the team is assigned to; they are all rated/ranked individually based on their own game data.
All of this is always going to be based on how full and accurate the incoming game data is for each team / club. This one does look like a pretty big miss, and it's surprising (to me) that nobody in that club or that team realized it until now. To have the best quality/most accurate ratings for your own team / your own club, if something ever does look off, it's just a few clicks to verify that it is seeing all the games that you'd expect. If #10 in CA and #36 in US seemed weirdly low for them, I'm surprised it stayed that way as long as it has - I would think there would have been at least some incentive from someone even loosely affiliated with the club for these things to more accurately reflect their ongoing success.
It's also the case that none of this has anything to do with the individual team ratings, which perhaps most people are looking at rather than the aggregate club ratings. For the team ratings, it doesn't matter a whit which club the team is assigned to; they are all rated/ranked individually based on their own game data.
That is absolutely correct. No, and I mean NO great team has a rigid playing structure. It must be adaptable because soccer competition (you play to win, right?) is dynamic and player strengths and weaknesses are dynamic because they come and go. There is an opponent that analyzes how YOU play, and if they are good, play a different “style” to get the advantage. I land in the zone that you can develope great players by winning. If you communicate that winning isn’t that important, you won’t win the championship games. As Vince Lombardi said, show me a good looser and I will show you a loser. My fear is that we in America are becoming soft. I know Surf girls are soft.
Not so the Surf Boys, who won three ECNL Championship games and 1 finalist. Different DOC and very different soccer.
Which is no longer affiliated at all with Surf Cup Sports and Surf. Separation of ways.
I'm aware of the recent "retirement," but given the circumstances and recent push for more revenue, I'm surprised SCS let that go.
I don't know about soft... certainly better coaches and leadership on the boys' side.
CharlieMurfee
SILVER ELITE
It appears that this ranking system that you speak of should go ‘bye-bye’… did you create it?
SoccerFan6
SILVER ELITE
The problem with the club rankings is that it gives equal weight to U11 and U12 as it does to the ECNL ages. It you could filter by U13 and up I'm sure Koge would be at the top. Conversely, a club like blues that peaks at U-Little would move down substantially.
PassTheIPAandMove
BRONZE
In regards to the 2010 age group, playing real soccer against the level of duress Koge brings is going to make clubs that play real protagonist soccer better - if they are able to stay the course.
I wish a NorCal club could bring that level of duress to MVLA more than once a year - steel sharpens steel.
The era where we can progress the USWNT by continuing to press even harder and ram it down the other teams throat is going away if not gone already.
There is definitely merit to adapting tactics for a cup final, but at 12/13 years old seems more like ego than development.
I wish a NorCal club could bring that level of duress to MVLA more than once a year - steel sharpens steel.
The era where we can progress the USWNT by continuing to press even harder and ram it down the other teams throat is going away if not gone already.
There is definitely merit to adapting tactics for a cup final, but at 12/13 years old seems more like ego than development.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
I don't know whether it's a problem or just a reality - but you're right, however the ages are chosen and combined to determine "club strength" is always going to have pros/cons. Here's the full data of all top teams across HB Koge and Surf for all ages from 2014 through 05/04. Koge has a stronger team (by rating) in 2011, 2007, and 05/04. Surf is ahead in all other age groups. HB Koge's top team in 05/04 is so significantly better though, that it dwarfs most of the other differences. Mark's intent for club strength is this (from here):
You can directly see the effect of choosing different populations. In the current setup for the app, the first result, it shows that Surf is slightly ahead. This is close to what I'd expect to see on the app either today or tomorrow. If other populations are chosen instead for the calculation, including the 05/04 age, Koge is slightly ahead. There are 992 clubs in the US with enough active girls teams to be rated as of today, and these two are the very best of the best - and are also quite close.
Those interested could likely lobby Mark to start including the U19s (which will be the 06/05 group on 8/1) in club rank if they feel that it would be a better representation than the current setup. You'd have to ask him, but my hunch is that he leaves the top age group out only because of that 2-year wonkiness and less fidelity about which team is actually which for that age group.
Surf boys are ECNL.
Right now top youth boys teams are MLS Next.
Nothing wrong with ECNL but for boys you have an option to go professional which is what MLS Next caters to. ECNL boys funnels into college teams.
If you really want to make everyone crazy you can factor college placements into club strength.
That always pisses people off.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
Yep. It's why the manufactured/subjective ratings are such a cluster. They are entirely maneuverable by whatever metrics the writer chooses and how they decide to weight them. Goal difference ratings alone aren't the answer to every question, and no rating/ranking system is going to be loved by all - but at least this one is straightforward to directly and mathematically measure/confirm the level of validity.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
The final between Koge and MVLA did not dissapoint. Both teams played a great game and it could have gone either way. Slammers seemed to have followed a specific game plan while MVLA stuck to what they have been doing all year with their ball movement. For me MVLA is the best soccer team in the country having both size, athleticism and controlling possesion of the ball. Slammers Koge have the best athletes and I would go on to say they have the best defense in the country now. I still like Surf as a major contender for next season. Blues will be questionable as I hear they lost a couple more top players (starters) but knowing Blues they will recruit the next players in line. In Socal I can forsee first place to be fought between Surf and Koge next season. If Blues can recruit the necessary pieces they lost I can see them making a run for third in the Sonoran division. For the other Socal division. You can expect Eagles and Beach fighting for that #1 spot next season.