G2010 - How’s the 2022 season going?

RandomSoccerFan said:
I initially read his comment that way as well - but on second read I had an alternate more charitable interpretation. He's potentially saying TopHat wins convincingly against most anyone they play in the leagues they choose to, and in that geography there isn't as much whining about ECNL good GA bad as there is in SoCal. He may be right.

But if you go by your interpretation (or my initial one) - if you look at the very few times that any TopHat top team has actually played an ECNL team over the past 2-3 years of game history across multiple age groups, their record isn't great, losing much more than winning, and the wins aren't against teams rated anywhere near TopHat.
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Appreciate the charity + you are correct I wasn't specifically calling out a particular league.

What I saw on the Georga soccer forums was that Atlanta is an island for soccer. Locally they play each other in different leagues so everyone knows everyone else. If you play GA or ECNL Atlanta teams tend to play Florida teams.

I do believe that Altlanta being an island and Tophat having been around for a while gives them an advantage + ability to recruit talent. In SoCal there's multiple high level options if you're willing to commute which makes the parents obsessed with trophies crazier then usual. Also in SoCal everything has been chopped up by the big clubs and leagues which means there's no local high level competition options. You pick koolaid A or B and that's it.
 
Congratulations to Slammers Koge! Having watched most all the games out here in Richmond, I am convinced that Koge has surpassed Surf. I say that because they know how to win big games and have incredible team character. As a lifelong Surf advocate, that is hard for me to say, but I call it as I see it.

The DOC at Surf was a bad hire. Watch as time goes on.
 
Surfer_dad said:
Congratulations to Slammers Koge! Having watched most all the games out here in Richmond, I am convinced that Koge has surpassed Surf. I say that because they know how to win big games and have incredible team character. As a lifelong Surf advocate, that is hard for me to say, but I call it as I see it.

The DOC at Surf was a bad hire. Watch as time goes on.
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Looking in from the outside...

What I see with Surf is that there's a certain amount of arrogance (or maybe you'd call ot swagger) that's happening with all the coaches, leadership, parents, and players. Which is fine but you need to back it up. It used to be that Surf could just pick and choose who they wanted to recruit + magically it would happen. More recently clubs especially in the San Diego area have circled the wagons around players + fight much harder to keep talent.

When my kid was a little we did a couple of Surf camps + it was crazy how Surf would take their top teams and practice with them away from all the rest of the players. I assume so they wouldn't get infected with others not-good-enough-for-surfness. We quickly figured out that Surf camps were worthless + if you want to play on the team it would be better to just go to the coach directly.

Top teams need to recruit to be competitive at the highest levels. It's just a fact of life. This used to work for Surf but as I said earlier other clubs have all got smarter and aren't as easy as they were before to loot for talent.

Finally Surf needs to be "nicer" to clubs around them. Do local friendlies, play in local tournaments, invite players to sessions, etc. This is how you recruit without even trying very hard. When players, parents, coaches like you they're more likely to join your teams.
 
Surfer_dad said:
Congratulations to Slammers Koge! Having watched most all the games out here in Richmond, I am convinced that Koge has surpassed Surf. I say that because they know how to win big games and have incredible team character. As a lifelong Surf advocate, that is hard for me to say, but I call it as I see it.
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Time will tell, as it always does, but the data shows that doesn't appear to be the case yet. Surf is a significantly stronger girls club, #2 (#1 in CA) in the nation, over two goals stronger than #36 (#10 in CA) Koge across the board. That sure doesn't mean they will win every time - but it does mean over time they will win way more than they lose. If Koge's top teams were on average stronger than Surf, these ratings would be starting to flip (or at least start to become closer).

surf2.jpgslammers1.jpgsurf1.jpg
 
Congrats to Slammers! Happy to see a SoCal team win it at this age group. What's your beef with Deza? Style of play? Roster choices? Team/Player development and management? All of the above?
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
Time will tell, as it always does, but the data shows that doesn't appear to be the case yet.
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I need to correct my earlier post. The rankings as shown are correct - but they are misleading in this case. The way the club ratings/rankings are calculated is taking the average of a club's top teams from 2012 through 2006. You need at least 5 teams out of those 7 age groups. But if you only have 5 or 6, the blank age groups get a standard score of "30". This was a necessary compromise so teams that only had the top 5 age groups didn't float to the top of all state and national rankings, and at the same time didn't punish teams with a missing team or two so much that they drop out of the rankings entirely. But in this case, the impacts are very significant.

HB Koge has 6 extremely strong teams. And they have no 2011G team, so they get a 30 for that year. With that averaged in, they are #36 in the nation. If they had a 2011G team that was exactly as strong as Surf's 2011G team (42.73), their overall club average goes up from 45.70 to 47.52, which would place them #4 in the nation. Still behind Surf by .4 of a goal and 2 places in the national rank, and only actually leading in the 2007 age group - but extremely close, and it certainly represents the parity that is being shared in this thread. If HB Koge ever gets a 2011G team, there wouldn't be any hypotheticals or caveats necessary.

Here are the two spreadsheets:

koge11.pngkoge12.png
 
My post was specifically speaking about the 2010’s.

Overall, in the last two years, Surf as been second to Koge in the ECNL National Championships. Note, this year Surf took 4 teams, Koge took 5 (counting the 03/04) teams, Surf wins -0- Championships and the one team in the finals lost today. Koge wins 2, loses one in the finals.

Last year Surf only had one get to the quarters and they lost in the semi’s. Koge fans could tell me last year’s statistics but I know they did much better, so I think Koge is over Surf. The ratings you are referring to has a lot to do with the number of players on different national teams. That is the one thing this DOC does well, in fact I think that is all he really cares about.
 
Goforgoal said:
Congrats to Slammers! Happy to see a SoCal team win it at this age group. What's your beef with Deza? Style of play? Roster choices? Team/Player development and management? All of the above?
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More concerned with style over winning. When Surf loses, coaches always say “we played the better soccer”
 
Surfer_dad said:
My post was specifically speaking about the 2010’s.

Overall, in the last two years, Surf as been second to Koge in the ECNL National Championships. Note, this year Surf took 4 teams, Koge took 5 (counting the 03/04) teams, Surf wins -0- Championships and the one team in the finals lost today. Koge wins 2, loses one in the finals.

Last year Surf only had one get to the quarters and they lost in the semi’s. Koge fans could tell me last year’s statistics but I know they did much better, so I think Koge is over Surf. The ratings you are referring to has a lot to do with the number of players on different national teams. That is the one thing this DOC does well, in fact I think that is all he really cares about.
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They both have fantastic teams for 2010 (and in most all ages). Surf has a slight rankings edge, Koge just won - so proved to be the better team on the day. These SR ratings have absolutely zero to do with anything at all other than the win/loss performance on the field, and are calculated directly from those results. Nothing else is considered, included, or relevant. There are drawbacks to that method - but subjectivity or randomness like national teams or college commits aren't one of them.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
HB Koge has 6 extremely strong teams. And they have no 2011G team, so they get a 30 for that year. With that averaged in, they are #36 in the nation.
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Hopefully last edit with necessary corrections. I wish this board let folks fix their own mistakes within an hour or two rather than 4 minutes; would likely keep these threads less convoluted. But anyway - Koge does appear to have a 2011G RL team (~41), but it wasn't in the right club entity. With them added to the same HB Koge club as the rest, everything should recalculate by tomorrow and they will show up much higher in the state and national rankings.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
I need to correct my earlier post. The rankings as shown are correct - but they are misleading in this case. The way the club ratings/rankings are calculated is taking the average of a club's top teams from 2012 through 2006. You need at least 5 teams out of those 7 age groups. But if you only have 5 or 6, the blank age groups get a standard score of "30". This was a necessary compromise so teams that only had the top 5 age groups didn't float to the top of all state and national rankings, and at the same time didn't punish teams with a missing team or two so much that they drop out of the rankings entirely. But in this case, the impacts are very significant.

HB Koge has 6 extremely strong teams. And they have no 2011G team, so they get a 30 for that year. With that averaged in, they are #36 in the nation. If they had a 2011G team that was exactly as strong as Surf's 2011G team (42.73), their overall club average goes up from 45.70 to 47.52, which would place them #4 in the nation. Still behind Surf by .4 of a goal and 2 places in the national rank, and only actually leading in the 2007 age group - but extremely close, and it certainly represents the parity that is being shared in this thread. If HB Koge ever gets a 2011G team, there wouldn't be any hypotheticals or caveats necessary.

Here are the two spreadsheets:

View attachment 17665View attachment 17666
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I’m hearing that HB KOGE, just got club of the year with two teams winning a national championship, and another loosing in the final moments (07s). My buddy told me they have 20 championships and 5 National
club of the year awards… any truth to that?
 
Dodgerblue1884 said:
Happy to see some ECNL vs GA match ups! May not be in best of the best (which I am not sure is real anymore), but head to head nonetheless. Good luck to all!
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Absolutely. The Surf Cup Brackets are not aligned with the strength of the teams, and are more of a strategic/political bracketing than ability of the teams. But the cross-play will be fun, and the results will speak for themselves. Good teams everywhere at this event.
 
Surfer_dad said:
More concerned with style over winning. When Surf loses, coaches always say “we played the better soccer”
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Congrats to Koge, they played their game and it worked for them.

From where I stand, Surf did in fact play the better soccer and having more players on national teams is (and should be) more important than winning an ECNL natty (but losing does sting the ego). Got to keep developing players to win another World Cup - just my $.02 from NorCal.
 
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