Workrate is key... On the top of my list. Doc must enforce defensive and offensive workrate. Workrate is usually a result of having a strong mental focus.
G2010 - How’s the 2022 season going?
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Toxic cultures are not healthy. I agree, but disagree. Yes, they need to build mental toughness and take criticism, but only if the criticism is good and useful. If you're saying we can look forward to screaming piss poor advice to our girls in ecnl when they are 15 and 16, shoot me now! They are learning how to communicate with the coach with effort and performance resulting in play time and praise. Coaches that use recruiting to push their players cause a lot of injuries as well as everyone does their futsal, privates, and speed training. I see these injuries. I see the loss of love for playing. I can see why so many burn out. I guess I'm just extremely thankful that my daughter gets to compete against these teams without having any of the drama and toxicity. The drama is evident and clear just reading in here. Again, we'll see whose mentally healthier, stronger without body stresses and injuries, and dominant in their roles in the future, but I'm betting on those who have avoided injuries, abuse, and unnecessary stress especially if and when one of these top teams doesn't make the top anymore.
I've heard coaches put so much pressure on their girls at this age and sometimes the luck is not on your side even after you recruited all the best girls you could. Then this coach calls them losers and makes them hate the game or makes their parents have to make them train an extra hour every day even though their legs are sore and injuries are building. That's not building mental toughness. That's slowly breaking down their minds and bodies, but giving some toxic parents exactly what you are saying. Some parents like this. I probably used to until I grew up and realized that girls are not like boys. I think some people with very skilled athletic girls are going to learn the hard way what I'm trying to say here. Maybe I'm wrong though and that unnecessary pressure and mental abuse makes them work harder than ever?
Not saying poor advice from Doc is good but I don’t mind the tough love. For example take a coach like Baker. Some loved him and others hated him. But I’ll guarantee you that the players he developed were tough as a rock. Especially the ones that could hang with the tough criticism. They are winning today. The toxic part is unavoidable and mostly parent driven and it gets out of hand when Doc can’t control it or does not care. The ones that suffer the most are bench players. GM parents are a problem for sure. Especially the ones that can influence Doc. Jealousy and enviousness you see that a lot. Lots of fake parents. My kid is better than yours etc and wanting to outshine the other. Or I got more money than you so I’m hiring the best trainers spending 2k a month on extra training. Crazy shit. I’ve experienced it all. But it is what it is. To me it’s all about being in the top teams that will get to the playoffs … the teams that have the right training partners that make a good fit for my DD. If your ecnl team is not making the playoffs you are better off playing GA. My opinion.
Have you been to an ecnl playoffs? How many games are there? 4 of the top 10 teams in the USA are in So. CAL in the 2010 age group. Just being in ecnl in so cal means we get to compete against those teams. Lets say you,re the top team and beat my team by 1 goal. Again, these girls are 12 to 13. My daughter got to compete against your team and will have gained experience without the abuse is my point. Now, she will have 3 more years before I care if we win the playoffs, but whose hungrier, your daughter or mine? Whose healthier mentally and physically? Maybe it's a wash? I'd take the wash without the abuse and drama then. Just how I look at it I guess.
Socal may be the exception. Especially for this age group.
We are extremely blessed in So Cal.! In a way, I'm lazy about this. I'll let the toxic parents and coaches kill each other and work on teaching my daughter to love the work and the game, but don't think for a second we are not trying to win it all every year. I just don't need her abused or broken down by the time she is 16 over a game with so many variables and turns. Soccer is a 1 goal which way the wind blows game. They don't need that pressure this young. Now, 16, it's all on her and hopefully she thrives on it by then.
Shooting Star
SILVER
Said the parent of the bully to the bullied “it’s good for ya - builds character”
Oy vey
Keep in mind that if you're not on the top 3-4 ECNL teams in Socal but rather the middle 5-8 you're getting screwed out of attending the playoffs.
A 5-8 level socal ECNL team would likely be top 1-3 in most other geographies which means you would attend the playoffs.
Once you get to the playoffs it wont matter because you'll still get beaten by the same teams but at least you're able to attend.
This is where GA makes sense if you're not on the top 3-4 ECNL socal teams.
I like that you're protecting your kid from crazy situations at a young age but a few light exposures might be helpful in learning how to deal with it. The best coaches can train and recruit well because even the best coaches can't train kids who don't want to put the work in. You know your kid best so do what you think she needs for her growth.
You're right, No need to be jumping ship at 12, but 16 is too late. Girls get seriously looked at during their sophomore year and offers come out after their sophomore year and trickle in through their junior year. If your kid only needs 1 year to learn a system, come on during sophomore year. If your kid needs two years, come on during her freshman year. If she needs three, come on before her 8th grade year.
A year before going to a high level team, look around at teams and go to some games to see whether you like how a coach handles games. Make sure you attend the tough games and the easy ones too because coaches are very different during these two types of games. Make sure you attend at least a few losing games. Pay attention to whether the coach really knows what they are doing when they make subs and whether what they say is correct - don't worry about the volume because my kids told me they like the yelling since they can't hear their coach during games otherwise. Talk to parents about team situations at different teams, like how many new players they've brought in last year and the year before, how many players left and why, etc. Ask them for the names of the girls that were added - because you might see that they are adding toxic families and those are the worst coaches. Ask parents what the trainings are like at different teams.
Check out their college commitments and to where. Don't look at the numbers alone because the quality of the colleges matters. Some coaches do have more sway with colleges because they have a reputation of teaching the right tactics and recruiting the right girls to their programs.
Use all the information you gathered to make a decision. Do your research. Throughout the years, some of the coaches I thought I would like because they sounded nice and would be good for my kids mentally, I changed my mind after watching them a few times because I realized they don't know how to coach a game and my kids weren't going to learn any good tactics or be able to look good in front of college scouts. The players were being put in the wrong places and being asked to do the wrong thing, which in turn makes everyone look mediocre at best.
The mental toughness test:
One other thing to add regarding mental toughness is if your DD can play under pressure vs a top team. For me this is the biggest test of wether a player will do well in a top team. How well can they play under pressure vs a top team. If you are not in a top team but your DD does well under pressure vs a top team then your DD will most likely do well in a top team. If your DD cracks under pressure when playing a top team then she may not be a good fit for a top team and will most likely end up on the bench with minimal play time. I’ve seen kids look great during a practice tryout but when the real game vs a top team shows up they can’t handle the pressure. Wether this aspect of mental toughness can be developed in girls is questionable. Some say you can’t and others say you can. For girls, I believe that you can’t develop it if it’s not in their personal character. If they do have it naturally, you can enhance it. Yes girls are not like boys but the ones at the top are just like boys. Look at the women at the highest level. Just as tough as men and they are very competitive.
One other thing to add regarding mental toughness is if your DD can play under pressure vs a top team. For me this is the biggest test of wether a player will do well in a top team. How well can they play under pressure vs a top team. If you are not in a top team but your DD does well under pressure vs a top team then your DD will most likely do well in a top team. If your DD cracks under pressure when playing a top team then she may not be a good fit for a top team and will most likely end up on the bench with minimal play time. I’ve seen kids look great during a practice tryout but when the real game vs a top team shows up they can’t handle the pressure. Wether this aspect of mental toughness can be developed in girls is questionable. Some say you can’t and others say you can. For girls, I believe that you can’t develop it if it’s not in their personal character. If they do have it naturally, you can enhance it. Yes girls are not like boys but the ones at the top are just like boys. Look at the women at the highest level. Just as tough as men and they are very competitive.
6 SoCal teams make it to playoffs because ECNL is aware of the depth in Socal.
In addition to the playoffs, there's the American Cup and showcase games for u16/u17 (recruitment age) games playing at the same event, making it convenient for college coaches to see everyone, not just those who make it to the playoffs. Everyone gets to attend.
Fair response + GA does the same during its version the playoffs.
My daughter has enormous experience in tournament finals with loads of play time at a young age. She handles the pressure fantastically. BETTER THAN ME that's for sure and I don't want to ruin that for her. Now, if a coach was good at coaching and had a top tier team, I'd be more inclined to want to be on his or her team. I'm actually waiting for the better coaches that come around as they get a little older. At least I'm hoping they are better. We're good with earning time and tough love, but just very unimpressed with the so called top tier team coaches I've seen.
We're younger than 2010s, so we have a little more time and opportunity to even be a top tier team. Who knows? Surf lost a lot of players I guess this year in our age group and I've always been impressed with their coaching. We really like our coach though and our club is close to home. Women can be competitive and confident on other teams than the top 3 too. I mean colleges fill rosters with more girls than just These top teams.
That’s great that your DD has that ability. I was just giving a general observation that I’ve had over time for the players that fit well on a top team. Many parents come to these top teams with all sorts of unreal expectations of play time and development. So I’m just giving people a little test that they can use to see if they would be a good fit for a top team. You don’t have to be on a top team to have mental toughness. Your kid needs to be able to play vs the top players in their respective age group and handle the pressure to perform well and effect the game. Being in a top team is not for everyone and it’s not the only path either
100%. Great advice Veritas. TB got heat each year after he made his cuts at end of season. Parents complained because he was the one who was supposed to develop the player, not cut the player. Cream always rises to the top. TB would not take bribes or even a home baked pie from the misses to get play time. Hard work always works out in the end. Expect to get cut in life if you rest on your past accomplishments. Welcome back. New Wave Dave say's hi by the way
Sage advice
So, here is my way of looking at all this. Some of these elite girls between 11 and 13 will have the genetic speed and athleticism to be college players and many won't. I'll ask the hypothetical to you guys and you answer. First of all, the worst case is that your daughter won't get a college scholarship and will miss out on a $50k a year career stressing her tail off as a pro female soccer player, so there is that.
Now the question. Your daughter has the size, speed, and athleticism to be position dominant in high school and potentially college. She has great genetics there. She is a top player right now for her position. Do you worry more about injuries and burn out or not being good enough for college, because she was not on a top team at 12? If you have confidence in your daughter's athleticism, training, position dominance, and most of all work ethic and work rate, why wouldn't you find an environment that makes her love playing without pressure she doesn't need at age 11 to 13?
I understand team recognition and branding for being on a top team. That is an advantage, but my opinion is that my daughter will have the speed, athleticism, size, and position dominance to earn that scholarship or she won't and it will have nothing to do with if she played on a top 3 team in ecnl or not. If my daughter has the genetics to get that scholarship, my biggest fear is injury or burnout.
This is why I want to avoid coaches who work their players too hard physically and mentally at this age. She and I want to be on a top team, but we want a culture that encourages healthy hard work not toxicity mentally and physically. Still, the big hard trophy to win in all of this is a pro soccer career that pays $50k a year. Excuse me as I slap my face again for letting myself get so involved with this experience! LOL!
Starbucks called and said your daughter can make more working here and you won't have to drive your daughter across the USA and pay 10K a year. Some pay a lot more too!
One day at a time way up and one year at a time. Case in point. You use the word "cattle" as a way to describe the girls being pushed hard, yelled at, mentally challenged and screamed at during this very important age (11-13) and I can't agree more with you. Avoid yellers and screamers at all cost at this age. It never is good to scream and yell at girls. I knew top coach that made fun of a girl who started her period and was crying and had cramps. This loser actually said and I quote, "Stop crying. Are you on your period again." Another screamer coach who coached some of the top players actually told one girl, "What happen to you over the summer? Looks like you gained a lot of weight." This was all said in front of the other players. Talk about mental abuse, MOO! P.S. Both of these losers had no kids. You are on the right path and see clearly the wrongs in the game.
MyKidsDriver
SILVER
Since no one wants to talk about tryouts, any clubs expected to lose or at risk of losing ECNL status after this year?
(I want Silver!)
(I want Silver!)