ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

GT45 said:
This is not accurate at all. Blues coaches field their own teams, and have their own tryouts. There is no A team or B team. Some players want to play DA. Some want to play ECNL. It is up to each coach to put their best roster together. For example, Rogers 03 ECNL team and Bobak's 02-03 DA team were both excellent last season. No way to say one was better than the other.
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Rogers brought that good team over from Strikers. Those girls had been playing together for years and no one was going to break the team up.

How were both teams excellent? Bobak’s team finished 7th out of 14 teams in the Southwest conference. And as you say, no one could say which team was better.
 
Bobak's team dealt with several key injuries. He had a very good team. Rogers brought some Strikers players over, but his Blues roster was significantly different than his Strikers team.

It is a fact. There is no A and B team for Blues. Some players want to play ECNL. Some want to play DA. No coach or club can make them play for one or the other. Players have the freedom to make choices. The Blues coaches fill their rosters with the best players they can, that fit their culture.

So what your saying is the Blues don't operate as a club with a hierarchical concept of team levels?

Since neither league is 'better' than the other (ECNL or DA), there is no need to make them A and B. The coaches do their job. Players play for the league and coach they choose.
 
CopaMundial said:
You are right and some, like my DD, are interested in DIII because of the scholastic level. She's turned down a number of DI. It's very courageous and we are supportive, but it is scary at moments
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Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart. I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there. We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)” any day, all day.
 
MarkM said:
Rogers brought that good team over from Strikers. Those girls had been playing together for years and no one was going to break the team up.

How were both teams excellent? Bobak’s team finished 7th out of 14 teams in the Southwest conference. And as you say, no one could say which team was better.
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Here are my thoughts as to which team is better...

Abner's team won the ECNL U16 Championship.
Tad's, as you stated, came in 7th out of 14 teams in the DA Southwest conference. Barely got in as a wildcard team.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/league/standings.php?leagueId=MTEzNg==

However, recently at Surf Cup, Tad's team beat Abner's team. So, who's team is better? And, which is better DA teams or ECNL teams? Hmmmm…..
At the U16 now U17 level, I think USSDA.

U16: So Cal Blues SC/Abner's ECNL Team won the ECNL Championship:
https://www.eliteclubsnationalleagu...-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/

So-Cal-Blues-Logo-CYMK-High-Res-300x220.png
The So Cal Blues SC organization captured their second National Championship of the year in Richmond, as their U16 squad took down an absolute giant in Michigan Hawks. Coming into this matchup, Michigan Hawks were scoring at will and were looking like one of the teams to beat. The Hawks’ showing in San Diego was impressive, to say the least, but So Cal Blues used their substitutions wisely and timely to edge out a narrow 1-0 victory to raise the cup. Doing what they do best, So Cal played like a well-oiled machine and used their technical ability to control the game when it mattered most, ultimately sealing the deal and controlling their destiny as well. They join their U18/U19 sisters as ECNL National Champions.

Abner Rogers — head coach of the U16’s — said, “The team was ready and focused to perform on the biggest stage. Leading up to the championship game, our girls played two very great games, showcasing their willingness and determination to overcome adversity against excellent opponents. We are honored to be crowned ECNL National Champions!”

So Cal Blues faced a scrappy and determined SLSG-MO team in the semifinals, a matchup that was sure-fire entertainment. For a decent amount of the first half, both clubs battled it out by exchanging possessions and creating opportunities. So Cal Blues would strike first and swing the momentum in their favor, forcing SLSG-MO to play catchup and get on the board. Despite a solid effort on both sides of the ball, SLSG-MO fell to So Cal by a score of 3-0 and the Blue’s path was paved to the championship game.

SURF CUP:
Girls U17 Best of the Best: Tad's team beat Abner's team... 2-0
#690
Playoffs
Semi-Finals
8:00 AM
SC BLUES ECNL 2003 (CAS) 0 SO CAL BLUES USSF DA 03 (CAS) 2 OC #10

However, in the DA, Bobak's team didn't even get past pool play in the DA Playoffs.
http://scbs.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7463836

This ultimately tells me the better teams are in the DA, not ECNL. At least the 2003's.
I would say Abner's team is the 2nd team.
 
bigroyalbastard said:
Here are my thoughts as to which team is better...

Abner's team won the ECNL U16 Championship.
Tad's, as you stated, came in 7th out of 14 teams in the DA Southwest conference. Barely got in as a wildcard team.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/league/standings.php?leagueId=MTEzNg==

However, recently at Surf Cup, Tad's team beat Abner's team. So, who's team is better? And, which is better DA teams or ECNL teams? Hmmmm…..
At the U16 now U17 level, I think USSDA.

U16: So Cal Blues SC/Abner's ECNL Team won the ECNL Championship:
https://www.eliteclubsnationalleagu...-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/

So-Cal-Blues-Logo-CYMK-High-Res-300x220.png
The So Cal Blues SC organization captured their second National Championship of the year in Richmond, as their U16 squad took down an absolute giant in Michigan Hawks. Coming into this matchup, Michigan Hawks were scoring at will and were looking like one of the teams to beat. The Hawks’ showing in San Diego was impressive, to say the least, but So Cal Blues used their substitutions wisely and timely to edge out a narrow 1-0 victory to raise the cup. Doing what they do best, So Cal played like a well-oiled machine and used their technical ability to control the game when it mattered most, ultimately sealing the deal and controlling their destiny as well. They join their U18/U19 sisters as ECNL National Champions.

Abner Rogers — head coach of the U16’s — said, “The team was ready and focused to perform on the biggest stage. Leading up to the championship game, our girls played two very great games, showcasing their willingness and determination to overcome adversity against excellent opponents. We are honored to be crowned ECNL National Champions!”

So Cal Blues faced a scrappy and determined SLSG-MO team in the semifinals, a matchup that was sure-fire entertainment. For a decent amount of the first half, both clubs battled it out by exchanging possessions and creating opportunities. So Cal Blues would strike first and swing the momentum in their favor, forcing SLSG-MO to play catchup and get on the board. Despite a solid effort on both sides of the ball, SLSG-MO fell to So Cal by a score of 3-0 and the Blue’s path was paved to the championship game.

SURF CUP:
Girls U17 Best of the Best: Tad's team beat Abner's team... 2-0
#690
Playoffs
Semi-Finals
8:00 AM
SC BLUES ECNL 2003 (CAS) 0 SO CAL BLUES USSF DA 03 (CAS) 2 OC #10

However, in the DA, Bobak's team didn't even get past pool play in the DA Playoffs.
http://scbs.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7463836

This ultimately tells me the better teams are in the DA, not ECNL. At least the 2003's.
I would say Abner's team is the 2nd team.
Click to expand...

not so fast on drawing that conclusion. first off Abners Team was missing players from the championship roster for Surf Cup. Also two players on the ECNL championship Roster played on the DA squad, Tad's team, for Surf Cup. And scored their goals. Abner was also trying out new positioning and some new additions to the roster as well. so this is a false conclusion actually.
 
Justafan said:
Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart. I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there. We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)” any day, all day.
Click to expand...
^^^^^This
Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
My G03 is well aware of this.

Potential Employee Interview:
Where did you go to school?

Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...

Candidate B: Claremont McKenna.
Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?

Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.
 
Justafan said:
Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart. I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there. We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)” any day, all day.
Click to expand...

I guess it feels courageous because going to D3 or Ivy, especially in a very specified field or competitive program as my DD is choosing, means early app and more stress to get money from merit and not just athletics. But when we sat down with our DD and talked as a family, we felt like the mentality and drive of our student athlete was more than just playing the game. It's education quality and a top program, being with like minded players and students, enjoying your location as you will live their for 4 years and, of course, playing time. My kid doesn't want to sit the bench at some D1 school and get a sub par education, in a field she didn't even want to study, just because they offered her a scholarship. Sometimes merit at a private is better than small athletic $ at a state program. To each his own, really. All our athletes have put so much time, effort and sacrifice into this club soccer journey, it should end well for all of them. They should find their right place, get a great education and look back on their journey as one that gave them a lot of memories, opportunities and life skills. That is my wish.
 
CopaMundial said:
I guess it feels courageous because going to D3 or Ivy, especially in a very specified field or competitive program as my DD is choosing, means early app and more stress to get money from merit and not just athletics. But when we sat down with our DD and talked as a family, we felt like the mentality and drive of our student athlete was more than just playing the game. It's education quality and a top program, being with like minded players and students, enjoying your location as you will live their for 4 years and, of course, playing time. My kid doesn't want to sit the bench at some D1 school and get a sub par education, in a field she didn't even want to study, just because they offered her a scholarship. Sometimes merit at a private is better than small athletic $ at a state program. To each his own, really. All our athletes have put so much time, effort and sacrifice into this club soccer journey, it should end well for all of them. They should find their right place, get a great education and look back on their journey as one that gave them a lot of memories, opportunities and life skills. That is my wish.
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Ivy Leaguers can be found in every professional sport too, btw
 
Courageous is appropriate in my opinion @CopaMundial. The environment lends to a ton of pressure to commit for these kids. Most, if not all thier peers look at DI as the end all be all, or as a statement of the players ability. The fact is, there are many D2 schools that could play circles around many D1. But, most kids just believe in the hierarchy of D1, 2, 3 and so on. So, for your kid to bypass the perceived “Holy Grail” and choose a school that is simply a better fit, is courageous. Congrats to her. My kid did the same, BTW. Had a DI offer before her Junior year from a school that wasn’t a blip on her radar. She recieved a couple more offers this summer as well from another couple DI schools that she just wasn’t interested in. Although, she did entertain them a bit more than the previous offer. Finally, she decided on a great DII school and program that checks off most of her boxes of dream situation that she had in mind. She’s thrilled, we’re thrilled for her. We’re all thrilled to be done with the process.
 
pewpew said:
^^^^^This
Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
My G03 is well aware of this.

Potential Employee Interview:
Where did you go to school?

Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...

Candidate B: Claremont McKenna.
Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?

Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.
Click to expand...
For an undergraduate technical degree, the school only matters for the first job. After that experience and referrals count for much more.
 
pewpew said:
^^^^^This
Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
My G03 is well aware of this.

Potential Employee Interview:
Where did you go to school?

Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...

Candidate B: Claremont McKenna.
Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?

Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.
Click to expand...

Claremont-Mudd maybe. Claremont-McKenna students should go to San Bernardino State and get their MBA before hitting the job market. (CSUSB has a night/weekends MBA program set up for people with day jobs and ambition).
 
espola said:
Claremont-Mudd maybe. Claremont-McKenna students should go to San Bernardino State and get their MBA before hitting the job market. (CSUSB has a night/weekends MBA program set up for people with day jobs and ambition).
Click to expand...

I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.
 
Kicknit22 said:
Courageous is appropriate in my opinion @CopaMundial. The environment lends to a ton of pressure to commit for these kids. Most, if not all thier peers look at DI as the end all be all, or as a statement of the players ability. The fact is, there are many D2 schools that could play circles around many D1. But, most kids just believe in the hierarchy of D1, 2, 3 and so on. So, for your kid to bypass the perceived “Holy Grail” and choose a school that is simply a better fit, is courageous. Congrats to her. My kid did the same, BTW. Had a DI offer before her Junior year from a school that wasn’t a blip on her radar. She recieved a couple more offers this summer as well from another couple DI schools that she just wasn’t interested in. Although, she did entertain them a bit more than the previous offer. Finally, she decided on a great DII school and program that checks off most of her boxes of dream situation that she had in mind. She’s thrilled, we’re thrilled for her. We’re all thrilled to be done with the process.
Click to expand...

My daughter is at a D3. Her coach, coaching only at the D3 level, is undefeated against D2 schools (more than 20 games played), and 6-8 against D1 schools (take away the 2 games against a Big 10 university, and he is 6-6). Point being, D1 women's soccer is not necessarily better than D2, which is not necessarily better than D3. And many of the lower end D1 soccer programs have lower end academics, as well. One of her assistant coaches won a national championship at D1 and said her team is much better than many of the D1 teams they played in their non-league games.

Choose the right university and maximize the money you can get-- and focus less on what division they play (random university with a direction in its name is not likely to help get you a great job coming out of school). The parent's desire to say their daughter got a D1 scholarship (and in some cases, they didn't even get money, just offered to walk-on-- but the parent often won't share those details) sometimes runs against their daughter having the best long-term impact on their life (i.e., getting a good job outside of soccer) and enjoyment on the field (if you are one of the last players on the team, you are not likely to get much, if any, time on the field). We have 100% of school costs covered and most other expenses (dorm, food) covered by her merit award. And she is at a really good university and will be a strong contributor her freshman year on the field. That is a good outcome.
 
SD_Soccer said:
My daughter is at a D3. Her coach, coaching only at the D3 level, is undefeated against D2 schools (more than 20 games played), and 6-8 against D1 schools (take away the 2 games against a Big 10 university, and he is 6-6). Point being, D1 women's soccer is not necessarily better than D2, which is not necessarily better than D3. And many of the lower end D1 soccer programs have lower end academics, as well. One of her assistant coaches won a national championship at D1 and said her team is much better than many of the D1 teams they played in their non-league games.

Choose the right university and maximize the money you can get-- and focus less on what division they play (random university with a direction in its name is not likely to help get you a great job coming out of school). The parent's desire to say their daughter got a D1 scholarship (and in some cases, they didn't even get money, just offered to walk-on-- but the parent often won't share those details) sometimes runs against their daughter having the best long-term impact on their life (i.e., getting a good job outside of soccer) and enjoyment on the field (if you are one of the last players on the team, you are not likely to get much, if any, time on the field). We have 100% of school costs covered and most other expenses (dorm, food) covered by her merit award. And she is at a really good university and will be a strong contributor her freshman year on the field. That is a good outcome.
Click to expand...
and your daughter is also learning the valuable lesson of not following the crowd, or "taking the road less traveled" as Robert Frost put it.
 
timbuck said:
As long as your job is in Southern California. Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.
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I've gotten a few "Disagrees" for this one. I'm not a native Californian, but I've been here for over 20 years. I had never heard about Claremont McKenna until a few years ago (Friend of ours played volleyball there). I had no idea that is was such a highly regarded academic school. Maybe those that hire econ, finance or political science majors view it as a top school to recruit from. I've worked with/interacted with people from many of the Ivys, Stanford, etc. Aside from our friend that was a volleyball player, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who has gone there. (Maybe I need to start hanging out with smarter people. All of these idiots from Eastern-Northwest State University are dragging me down)

I did a little googling to find out some more info on Claremont McKenna. This is fall 2018 data:
Total Undergrad Students: 1,318
Nor Cal Residents: 190
Central Cal Residents: 12
Southern Cal Residents: 310
Total CA: 512
They do have students from 49 total states.
States that have more than 20 students:
Washington: 73
New York: 66
Texas: 53
Illinois: 49
Oregon: 32
Arizona: 28
Massachusetts: 27
Connecticut: 23
New Jersey: 23
Colorado: 22

They also have 223 students from 43 foreign countries:
China: 65
India: 37
Korea: 13
Hong Kong: 10
UK: 10
Canada: 6
Any others are 5 or less.
 
timbuck said:
As long as your job is in Southern California. Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.
Click to expand...
@timbuck Technically you are correct that “few” know CMC by name...however the “few” that do are merely the employers in the highest paying fields in finance like investment banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, elite management consulting firms etc...then there are the top graduate schools that also place a high weight on a degree from Claremont, Pomona, Harvey Mudd and the other schools in their consortium...I think Pomona rejects something like 91% of the kids who apply there...soccer is a great way to get accepted and into the feeder into those high paying industries...
 
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