??? Central Valley’s clubs need to try first, I don’t see any of those clubs trying… why would ECNL includes a club that’s not even trying to develop their coaches and players? Opportunity is for someone that’s ready.
ECNL Expansion In NorCal
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
GoldenGate
GOLD
You seem to be all about the "betterment of soccer" and believe that propping up shit clubs like Ajax and Clovis does that. A question then: why do you expect other people to subsidize them? If it's so important to you, start cutting checks so they can hire coaches who know what they're doing. Maybe they can get in on merit instead of the largess of other clubs and their customers that have far better ways to spend their time and money.
People like you and crush are always happy telling other people how to spend their money and time and, go figure, it's always on your priorities regardless of how little sense it makes. This is the American evangelical culture. First, gimme, gimme, gimme what I want. Second, rationalize your own selfishness based on some ethereal higher calling - whether it's "God's will" or, in this case, "the betterment of soccer" as if either of those were real things. Finally, denigrate anyone who isn't giving you what you selfishly want by claiming they're the ones who are selfish. Everything you say is just take, take, take under the pretense that your selfish desires are so important that people should support them.
No, making people in the Bay Area pay gas stations and cheap hotels on the 99 is not "for the betterment of soccer". Mustang has done great things for its community that actually are "for the betterment of soccer." MVLA too. And especially SRU, given its demographic and population limitations. But you ignore all the great things those clubs have done that actually are "for the betterment of soccer" in their own communities, because you expect them and their customers to subsidize what you want in other people's communities. Well, the truth is they do. Many of the customers of those clubs, and probably most, provide substantial charitable giving that benefits underserved communities, whether it's supporting education, opioid abuse prevention, homeless shelters, or whatever their churches do. What they don't want to do, however, is waste that money at gas stations to support elite youth girls soccer somewhere else, because that may literally be the dumbest possible way to support anywhere.
Honestly, this isn't even a debate. I'm just explaining to you why something has never happened and probably never will. Facts are what they are. In response, you're whining "but it isn't fair" because you apparently think youth elite soccer is some holy thing, when it is really just an indulgent kiddie sport.
GoldenGate
GOLD
The only person being snobby is the one telling other people they should support indulgent youth kiddie soccer in Modesto and Clovis by giving money to gas stations and driving six hours, instead of spending it on things that actually matter to those communities.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
I took a look at the NorCal Girls ECNL - pretty much universally with a couple of exceptions, Marin, Santa Rosa and Pleasanton are the riff-raff that should be eliminated from ECNL. What's the point when your club is almost universally at the bottom of the table? Obviously they aren't good at developing talent.
SoccerJones
SILVER
agreed! ECNL is about the bottom line. ECNL was ONLY supposed to be for girls and look what they did? Imagine being able to double their bottom line by having the boys buy into drinking the Kool-Aid....
Blank95661
SILVER
Your ignorance almost doesn't deserve a response, but I'm such a mouth breather I can't help myself. If you look at Stanford's roster, there are a grand total of 3 players on the Stanford roster from MVLA or Mustang https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-soccer/roster. And this is what you're bragging about. So I'm going to assume you are an MVLA parent.
Second, if there aren't enough good players in the central valley, then why in my daughters age group (08) did a small club team like Stanislaus smash Mustang ECNL's team 5-0 in a league game this fall? No one told those "poor" central valley kids they weren't supposed to beat your precious Mustang team so bad. And no my daughter isn't on SUSC, I'm from a poorer further north. And those "poor", less talented kids from Ajax just beat down Davis ECNL today in the San Juan Tourney.
You keep talking about cost, but one of the best clubs in the country is Crossfire Premier and their program is fully funded through a foundation. https://www.crossfiresoccer.org/latest-news/crossfire-adds-funding-to-ecnl-program/ Maybe the model you love so much that favors your less talented but rich daughter is broken. Privilege shouldn't play a role which kids get an opportunity to play for the best clubs. This is why our men's national team has never had a shot at winning the world cup. In Brazil, Argentina, and most other countries that regularly kick our butt is men's soccer they don't let soccer become a class system. They have pro/rel and let the best rise to the top regardless of where you come from financially, look at Neymar, Pele, Messi for example.
Third, your geography point makes no sense. Look at the mountain and pacific divisions in the ECNL. Teams have to go to other states just to crush Idaho or Portland. So asking you to get in your Prius and drive to Modesto to play a competitive game shouldn't be an issue. You sound like you just want to keep elite soccer for the rich white kids.
To address your final point, this is the first time in my life I've ever been call PWT, because not one of those letters Poor, White or Trash applies to me.
Not trying to argue here on any of this, but I think many ECNL teams mix up their rosters quite a bit for non-ECNL games. This allows them to carry bigger rosters and keep kids engaged that have high potential.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
And without fail whenever an ECNL team loses to some knuckledragger team from the valley they throw this excuse out. Blahahahahahhaha
Tyler Durden
BRONZE
Stanislaus is exceptional in that age group. With the exception of San Juan and MVLA they can beat anyone in ECNL in Nor Cal.
4 girls from the 2x national ECNL champion MVLA '04 team will be playing at Stanford beginning this fall (with another to follow next year). It will be interesting to see how that goes.
I noticed one of them is 2005 birth year, did she skip a grade? and she is on u17wnt roster with the Montoya girl. What a remarkable young lady!
GoldenGate
GOLD
You are the stupidest person this side of crush. You think ENCL girls should travel to Modesto because "this is why our men's team sucks". As proof, you point to countries that kick the MNT's butt like Argentina and Brazil? Well, if Argentina's youth system is go great, why did Messi bail for Spain when he was 12 for the most elitist club in world history? Oh, and this is probably a good time to point out that Neymar went to a full time, live in youth soccer academy when he was also still a child. He most certainly did not play on the Brazilian equivalent of a middle school team in Stanislaus with idiot daddy coaches dumbfuck. He took money from a club that churns and burns 50 kids a year so that it can make money selling one of them. Oh, and can you please explain to me how your beloved pro/rel works at the Santos youth club? Does the Santos U13 team play in a local league, or do their kids train day in, day out, every day living in a Santos dorm playing whoever they want, whenever they want, on their terms? More importantly, you seem to be ignoring that Neymar and Pele didn't even get through sixth grade. They didn't become great soccer players because they played daddy ball on the Brazilian equivalent of the 13 year old Stanislaus middle school team like you seem to think. They dropped out of elementary school to play soccer full time. Yes, we should definitely do what Brazil does, that sounds really smart. Do you even know what the point of elite youth girls soccer is? Is it so they can play on the Brazilian and Argentina women's national teams? Or so they can get leverage their soccer ability to get an education?
Regardless, men's soccer is nothing like women's when it comes to development. I do know a country that stands alone in terms of development of its youth players, however. It's called the United Fucking States. And go figure, the best women's system in the world has decided that making real clubs drive their best players to shitholes like Modesto doesn't work and is unnecessary. If you want to point to realistic examples of actual women's players instead of some guy from seventy years ago and another who left his own country when he was 12 because it's youth system is shit, let's talk about Lavelle, Horan, Davidson, O'Hara, Mewis, Dahlkemper (MVLA btw), Pugh, Rodman, Smith, etc. Oh, and then there is this woman Catarina Macario, whose family was so impressed by the Brazil youth system that you love that they moved her to a different continent and an ECNL club when she was 12. I mean, we should definitely do what they do with girls in Argentina and Brazil, with all their women's world cup trophies and all. They definitely have things dialed in down there with their poverty street ball, which is such a stupid way to great great soccer players even on the men's side that neither Messi nor Neymar played in after they were 12 years old.
There is also a huge difference between a team of middle schoolers who can win games on sheer athletic ability and what happens over the next four years. Without knowing anything about this Stanislaus team, I know everything about it. It has 11 little girls born in 2008 who can play some, the bulk of whom are sufficiently athletic to win games without much technical ability or high level soccer knowledge. By the end of the year, those 11 kids will be down to about 9 as two get hurt, which will be backfilled by two kids who just aren't good enough because there just aren't a lot of good players in town. Within two years, another one or more will leave because their parents can't or won't pay, and another will leave because they just aren't committed to doing what it takes to keep up from a development perspective. Then another will get hurt. Another will get fat eating McDonald's every night. The best player will see the handwriting on the wall and leave for a club that doesn't have daddy coaching so she can train with kids her own ability level at a club with professional youth coaches, because her family understands what is required to leverage soccer ability for college opportunity. By the time these kids are in 10th grade, only a handful will be left from a team that is currently so great because of a couple bruisers, maybe two others with any real talent and a bunch of decent athletics. In short, when you thought 11 middle school age kids is enough (back when they were young enough for it to be enough), you failed to understand or appreciate what is about to happen next.
Agreed…it’s as equal if not better at development than the Czech Republic.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
Yet you drive to subpar ECNL clubs in Marin, Santa Rosa and Pleasanton (some age group exceptions). You are so full of shit.
GoldenGate
GOLD
The only things full of shit are Modesto, Clovis and you. Does Ajax even have U14-19 girls? I mean, they don't seem to even have U18 or U19 teams at all and their U17 is losing 7-0 and 9-0 to other shit clubs. But since you think Ajax deserves to have an ECNL club, why don't you give us all a detailed analysis of how their U14-U19 girls teams are doing and explaining with examples why they are so great they deserve to be in ECNL? Who are their great coaches on staff who are developing their talent after middle school btw?
Eventually, Santa Rosa is likely to drop out of ECNL. You are correct it is no longer an elite club, but that isn't a legitimate reason to add a different, longer drive to an equally shitty club in a worse place that is farther away. SRU lacks the players and the soccer muscle that pretty much one family brought to that area for a very long time, which are problems that were exacerbated after the fire. But it doesn't change that it deserved to be in ECNL when it was originally founded, which is why it still hangs on by a thread. SRU has produced a lot of quality players in its history, which is more than anyone can say for Ajax and Clovis Crossfire. Regardless, the fact that ECNL clubs need to go to Santa Rosa occasionally to play a weak club is all the more reason they won't (and shouldn't) go to shitholes in the Central Valley.
As for Pleasanton, they too have fallen on hard times and are not the club they were. But they still have advantages over shit clubs like Ajax and Crossfire because they have access to good field space in the Bay Area, and they also aren't as bad as you think. They're actually competitive at pretty much every age group, with only one bad negative goal differential. Playing Pleasanton 10-30 miles away makes a ton more sense than driving 100-200 miles.
Adding Marin was a bad idea. Honestly I don't know what they were thinking, other than desperation when GDA started because they needed more clubs to have enough in the league. But, honestly, adding Marin is the best possible proof that ECNL is not ever going to shitholes like Modesto and Clovis. They'd rather take in a terrible club in Marin than take in a terrible club in one of those places.
You can hate me all you want for telling you the truth you don't want to hear. I don't care. A lot needs to change in the Valley to create a compelling reason to include them, and that will probably never happen. ECNL will add more Bay Area clubs instead. There are some places that don't deserve elite soccer based on geography and demographics, and they include Modesto and Fresno.
Blank95661
SILVER
To quote Jay-Z "A wise man said don't argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who". So I'm not hear to argue with your dumbass. You can stay angry, ignorant and delusional but if you would like facts and not opinions, just listen to Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken on the ECNL podcast (episode 36 released yesterday. They explain how they want to make the pathway to playing in the ECNL more inclusive and not less. Start listening about the 20th minute. https://open.spotify.com/episode/11SEWy5JMvv7TxCACrrzcy?si=_gdgZCaNQECdqYmB4bFYTA&nd=1
All the hate and anger you have against the central valley is hysterical. It's like someone from there took your wife or something and now you hate the whole region. Open another craft beer and relax. The point of elite soccer should be to have the best teams play each other and if we are being honest, there are only a couple good ECNL clubs in the Bay Area. The rest are glorified NPL teams that just have different patches on their jersey and their teams finish in the bottom 2 in every age group.
Los Altos to Marin is 75 miles and Los Altos to Modesto is 87. Do those extra 12 miles really scare you this much? Maybe its because you know a central valley team would whip most Bay Area ECNL teams ass. Just this weekend in the 08 age group Ajax beat Davis ECNL and tied the Force ECNL team which currently sits in first place in the bay area conference. Ajax isn't even the best central valley team, Stanislaus is. If either club were ECNL and they combined, they would finish in the top 3 for sure. Saying all this to say, there is plenty of talent in the Central Valley, and if you don't want to drive and extra 12 miles for a game, then there is a level for you and your daughter and its called rec soccer.
That ECNL podcast link was/is very good. Christian is a smart guy + is saying all the right things. Surprising to hear how positive + upbeat he is about expansion. It's also intersting how understanding he is about clubs that are not performing. For those that dont want to listen to the podcast things like religation are off the table. Specifically because it would would literally kill certain clubs. Christian did strongly hint that ECRL (2nd teams) would play a much larger role in the future. Although not stated it sounded like non performers would move to ECRL and new up and coming clubs would start out as ECRL before going to ECNL.
As upbeat/nice as Christian appeared theres still a disconnect between good clubs not in ECNL and what he said about bringing on new. If ECNL truly was the best of the best you wouldnt see so many different clubs U12s in the breakout rounds of Statecup or the Finals of Tournaments.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Stanislaus has a total of two girls teams, neither above U14. They don't have a single team that even plays in the ECNL age groups. You can criticize Marin, SRU and Pleasanton, but at least they have teams. Even the mighty Ajax is barely hanging on above U13. There is no talent in Modesto. No coaching talent to develop kids, and not enough athletic talent with parents committed to putting in the time and money necessary to turn 13 year old children with potential into a solid college prospect. Not even close.
It's cute that you think the point of elite soccer is "to have the best teams play each other", when the real point is to leverage soccer ability into college opportunity. Unless you begin to understand this, and quickly, within two years you will find that the soccer dream has vaporized and all delusions about your daughter getting offers from Stanford, UCLA or even UC Davis are long gone even if they were realizable goals if you'd done what was best for her. Sure, you'll blame ECNL because it didn't dump millions on your kid's crap club so it could hire Jurgen Klopp a to coach your kid for free, which you think makes sense because one club in American (WA Crossfire, one of the richest by the way) has a foundation, so therefore money should also fall from trees for your benefit too. You'll also blame ECNL because it "stole" the kids who were propping up your daughter's team so they could get better coaches, training and overall competition because those families understood the real purpose of elite soccer when you didn't. They knew daddy ball would never get them there, nor would training with mediocre kids with crazy parents who thought 13 year old girls winning middle school soccer games against a pre-ECNL club meant something.
Your way of thinking is the new American Way. You think other people should pay for your kid's elite soccer because, if one of the richest most elite clubs in the country has a foundation, then you deserve free soccer. You think other people should subsidize your child's development by driving somewhere between 90-200 miles. You think other people from other shitty teams should join your kid's also shitty team to create one that doesn't completely suck because "it's for the good of soccer", as if any family owes you anything. Everything you talk about is just gimme, gimme, gimme, followed by whining when it never happens. But while you waste your time fighting with me about why kiddie soccer is unfair and elitist because other people aren't giving you things that you have done absolutely nothing to earn, the smart people around you are taking actual responsibility for their children's future, making decisions that are best for them, and leaving you and yours behind.
Let me tell you a story. My daughter once played for a truly "great" U13 team, surely better than this Stanislaus team you're talking about. They played a team Andres Deza had just taken over that was far less athletic and "talented" at every single position. The parents were laughing it up and high fiving as our girls rolled up the score, poaching one ball after the next for easy goals as the other team unsuccessfully tried to play it out of the back and move it around the ground, no matter how bad the score got. It was so hilarious how stupid Deza was making the same mistake over and over again. Six months later they played again and it wasn't funny at all.
You will find soon enough that elite soccer has nothing to do with a few outstanding pre-pubescent athletic kids showing up for a tryout when they were 9 and then trying to keep them together forever. You will learn that the shit club that got lucky that day did nothing to earn anything, and then pissed what they had away because of they shared your petty thinking and lack of foresight. Instead, elite soccer has everything to do with what happens after a kid turns 13. It requires having coaches who know what they are doing, and that costs money. It requires having field space and access, and that costs money. It requires having enough teammates whose families are financially stable and sufficiently committed to know that they need to get their kid to soccer practice 3-4x a week for four years, can afford the travel, and that takes money. And it requires that clubs understand what is a good reason to make families spend their money, like flying to ECNL showcases attended by 100+ college coaches or a Colorado team to Seattle because 5 good ones will and because flying is part of the culture given CO's and WA's geographic isolation. It is also requires that they understand what is not a good way to make them spend money, like on gas money and time to drive to Modesto just because some daddy of a middle schooler is trying to prove that he's a real man by living vicariously through his 13 year old daughter. Seriously, if you are talking about 13 year old girls winning soccer games as proof of soccer club excellence, you are lost beyond hope.
Don't say I didn't warn you. Your kid's soccer experience is about to get rough, and you have only yourself to blame for it.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
Yet you will fly hundreds of miles to play shittier clubs than Marin/Pleasanton/Santa Rosa. I think the poster above is right...someone in the Central Valley took your wife.
GoldenGate
GOLD
You love shit clubs so much because they're the only places that don't run background checks and where you get away molesting little kids.
I love this kind of stuff. This all started because I posted something that you and your friends didn't want to hear. It wasn't negative or derogatory or even patronizing. It just explained something hasn't happen and won't in the future. That's it. In response, I get hit with personal attacks about being a latte sipping, electric car driving elitist. Obviously, I'm perfectly happy joining the race to the bottom, so now here we are. These threads usually end when they get the the child molester allegations, but let's see if you have it in you to keep ruining this. I've got more insults but, honestly, making fun of central valley clubs seems to be more than sufficient. Shoot, even pointing out facts - like Stanislaus is such a shitty club it can't even field a single team beyond U14 - is enough to get under all of your skin. One of my favorites so far, though, is pointing out how idiotic it is to think that Lionel Messi's youth experience in Argentina's youth pro/rel system is proof that Modesto Ajax should be in ECNL, although Messi grew up on a different continent, there is no pro/rel youth system in Argentina, pro/rel also wasn't a thing when he was training full time at Barcelona's youth academy and, uh, he's a man while the country's system that he is criticizing happens to have won the last two World Cups and was unlucky not to win the one before that.
By that way, can anyone point to a girl in the last 20 years who played for a central valley club beyond U13 and went on to play at a Power 5 or good (not UOP) WCC school? I asked this before and was told instead that my wife cheated on me with someone from the central valley.