GG is just being a twit. We all know Ajax are good enough. Their U10, U11, and U12 teams are all in the top 4 in the state. Average rank of 3, same as Mustang and MVLA.
Looking forward to the next match against you them.
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ECNL Expansion In NorCal
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Looking forward to the next match against you them.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
This was also our experience. Many clubs will play both ECNL and NPL to get more games with many clubs using NPL to distribute playing time more evenly. However, as they age, that can become tricky as multiple games per weekend are less desirable and injuries start to become more common. The number of teams that can compete at the top shrunk as they aged.Taking a look at the top 10 NorCal teams for my daughter's year, only five are ECNL. The other five are apparently "riff raff".
There are good teams in ECNL, and good teams outside of ECNL. We play against both. There is no need to get up on a high horse when my kid could be playing soccer against good teams.
Another problem with travel is the incentive to get as many games in as possible choosing quantity of play over quality. Once they hit the big field, I am no fan of the ECNL Showcases having 3 games in 3 days.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Welcome to GG's "Delusions of Grandeur" tour.You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.
Agreed - I think Ajax (in Modesto) and Clovis (Fresno area) would be the two obvious choices based on their current level of play and geography. With a reputable DOC and coaches, there is certainly enough talent to be competitive in ECNL. Add the carrot of being ECNL and more of the talented players will come. Also, the Bay Area teams that play NPL (almost all of them) drive out there to play them every year.ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way. The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better. Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA. There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
SoccerJones
SILVER
Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way. The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better. Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA. There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.
Im not sure it would weaken bay area teams. I only say that because there are so many kids to pull from. I would agree that they could be better than Mustang, but I really like the way MVLA teaches the game. Mustang has good players that play very hard and are physical and it makes up for a lot of lack of technical and tactical abilities. Not saying they're not good, but the focus on winning over development which isn't always a bad thing if that's the goal.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Welcome to GG's "Delusions of Grandeur" tour.
Agreed - I think Ajax (in Modesto) and Clovis (Fresno area) would be the two obvious choices based on their current level of play and geography. With a reputable DOC and coaches, there is certainly enough talent to be competitive in ECNL. Add the carrot of being ECNL and more of the talented players will come. Also, the Bay Area teams that play NPL (almost all of them) drive out there to play them every year.
I can't believe we are even having this conversation. But then again, you need to be more than your typical mouth breather soccer daddy to understand why it will not happen. You need to understand that ECNL is not a company that makes money by adding clubs. This is not the kiddie soccer version of Field of Dreams in which if you build it they will come. ECNL is a mechanism for existing clubs to maximize their profitability and stability, and Crossfire nor Ajax do the opposite and adding crap clubs based on the mere possibility that if you do maybe they will stop sucking so bad is absolute folly.
As for the Clovis club specifically, there is no reason existing ECNL clubs would agree to add a club that requires driving between 150 and 200 miles to play one soccer game against a team that isn't special. All it will do is upset their paying customers, and unnecessary travel was one of the two main reasons GDA collapsed. ECNL will not make that mistake. Accordingly, it doesn't matter if a club from Fresno could consistently put together enough talent to compete in every age group. But the reality is it can't. Did you know that SoCal Blues had more players go to UCLA alone in 2020 than Fresno County has had girls play at Power 5 conference schools in its entire history? The entire point of ECNL is to help leverage college opportunity for kids, yet Fresno doesn't have girls who can take advantage. Elite girls soccer is an expensive sport and there just aren't enough people in that area with the necessary money and time to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area or farther away, plus the 3-4 nights a week training. It just won't happen.
As for Ajax, you have no idea what you're talking about. None of the clubs will agree because Ajax will dilute the quality of play. Santa Rosa also won't agree because it suddenly makes their already challenging travel schedule worse. San Juan won't because it will cut into its customer base. Worse, adding Ajax opens the door to a possible Central Valley division that would probably include a team from Fresno (too much drive to play teams with obnoxious parents) and Placer (same, plus it would result in even more lost business). Which also means Davis doesn't want Ajax, because it could get sucked into that crappy division if it were ever created, which it won't be.
You look at this as "what is fair" and "what people deserve", rather than what does and doesn't make sense based on reality. There are places in the US, and Fresno is one of them, that are permanently hamstrung by a combination of factors that include geography, poverty and provinciality. It is crazy that you think Fresno and Modesto are good choices based on "geography" since, in fact, they are terrible choices based on geography. Fresno doesn't deserve to be subsidized by clubs that have worked hard to create a structure that already works. And no one wants to drive to a relative dump like Modesto even if it's only an hour for some clubs each way.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way. The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better. Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA. There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.
No, you are the problem with US Soccer mouth breather. You want to make the same mistake that US Soccer made with the failed GDA, which is to create leagues that make absolutely no sense based on financial or geographic reality. The ECNL NorCal clubs have a great thing that has worked for a decade, and which drove a stake into the heart of the same bs that you want to recreate. It is clear that you're a jealous cheapskate who wants to crash the gate without paying the price of admission.
Claiming a Fresno/Clovis club could ever be as good a club as Mustang or MVLA is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. MVLA in particular put more girls into Stanford the last two years than the Fresno area has had play in the Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 combined in all of its history. If you add in the kids that the Fresno area has placed at top WCC schools like Santa Clara and Pepperdine, you go from 2 to maybe 6 or 7. Ever. There just aren't enough good players in that area with parents who have the time and money to do what is necessary to create a sufficient number of elite players. And although they can occasionally put together a team that is good enough to compete against some ECNL clubs, you completely miss the point of what ECNL is since everything you say is premised on the idea of "the best teams should play in the same league" regardless of how financially unstable they are and how little sense it makes geographically.
What is your problem with electric cars? I take it you're unemployed PWT with a Dodge Challenger, and you can't afford ECNL because you're having a hard time making the car payments on your gas guzzler?
You’re clearly not from norcal if you think no one will drive to Ajax.I can't believe we are even having this conversation. But then again, you need to be more than your typical mouth breather soccer daddy to understand why it will not happen. You need to understand that ECNL is not a company that makes money by adding clubs. This is not the kiddie soccer version of Field of Dreams in which if you build it they will come. ECNL is a mechanism for existing clubs to maximize their profitability and stability, and Crossfire nor Ajax do the opposite and adding crap clubs based on the mere possibility that if you do maybe they will stop sucking so bad is absolute folly.
As for the Clovis club specifically, there is no reason existing ECNL clubs would agree to add a club that requires driving between 150 and 200 miles to play one soccer game against a team that isn't special. All it will do is upset their paying customers, and unnecessary travel was one of the two main reasons GDA collapsed. ECNL will not make that mistake. Accordingly, it doesn't matter if a club from Fresno could consistently put together enough talent to compete in every age group. But the reality is it can't. Did you know that SoCal Blues had more players go to UCLA alone in 2020 than Fresno County has had girls play at Power 5 conference schools in its entire history? The entire point of ECNL is to help leverage college opportunity for kids, yet Fresno doesn't have girls who can take advantage. Elite girls soccer is an expensive sport and there just aren't enough people in that area with the necessary money and time to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area or farther away, plus the 3-4 nights a week training. It just won't happen.
As for Ajax, you have no idea what you're talking about. None of the clubs will agree because Ajax will dilute the quality of play. Santa Rosa also won't agree because it suddenly makes their already challenging travel schedule worse. San Juan won't because it will cut into its customer base. Worse, adding Ajax opens the door to a possible Central Valley division that would probably include a team from Fresno (too much drive to play teams with obnoxious parents) and Placer (same, plus it would result in even more lost business). Which also means Davis doesn't want Ajax, because it could get sucked into that crappy division if it were ever created, which it won't be.
You look at this as "what is fair" and "what people deserve", rather than what does and doesn't make sense based on reality. There are places in the US, and Fresno is one of them, that are permanently hamstrung by a combination of factors that include geography, poverty and provinciality. It is crazy that you think Fresno and Modesto are good choices based on "geography" since, in fact, they are terrible choices based on geography. Fresno doesn't deserve to be subsidized by clubs that have worked hard to create a structure that already works. And no one wants to drive to a relative dump like Modesto even if it's only an hour for some clubs each way.
They hosted state cup this last month. Everyone drove there. Nice fields, too.
GoldenGate
GOLD
GG is just being a twit. We all know Ajax are good enough. Their U10, U11, and U12 teams are all in the top 4 in the state. Average rank of 3, same as Mustang and MVLA.
Looking forward to the next match against you them.
Wow, that is so incredible. I can't believe ECNL isn't tripping over itself to pick up a club that consistently has pre-pubescent U little teams among the top teams in the state. I mean the staffing and player development resources must be insane in order to take such consistently great U little teams and then have every one of those kids either flee or turn to crap as soon as they get to the ECNL age level.
GoldenGate
GOLD
You’re clearly not from norcal if you think no one will drive to Ajax.
They hosted state cup this last month. Everyone drove there. Nice fields, too.
You do not seem to understand the difference between having to go to Modesto and wanting to go. Even a dense fellow like yourself should be able to understand that ECNL teams don't want to go to Modesto to play league games because, uh, they don't. Also, the only reason State Cup tournaments are in places like Modesto is that the Bay Area doesn't have massive complexes at the right price point for the cheapskates who participate in State Cup thinking it is a big deal. But do you know what the Bay Area ECNL clubs do have? They have plenty of freakin' fields where clubs can host one game at a time, which is all they need.
Can you explain to me how San Juan benefits financially from adding Ajax? Santa Rosa? MVLA? Davis? Anyone?
I can believe it. ECNL is just playing their little political games. Same as they played with Beach and Legends, and are still playing with Top Hat.Wow, that is so incredible. I can't believe ECNL isn't tripping over itself to pick up a club that consistently has pre-pubescent U little teams among the top teams in the state. I mean the staffing and player development resources must be insane in order to take such consistently great U little teams and then have every one of those kids either flee or turn to crap as soon as they get to the ECNL age level.
ECNL isn’t in the business of picking up good clubs. They are in the business of extracting parent money. As a result, ECNL is perfectly willing to schedule weak teams if they think it will be more profitable.
For parents, it is simpler. If there is a strong team near you, you should be playing against them. If you are skipping one, ask your coach why. You are, as GG said, the paying customer.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Tesla in Palo Alto and drive my kid 90 miles to Modesto and then back this weekend so she can play one game at a majestic soccer complex. I know my daughter's games are only played on one field at a time, but it is just so much better when she's playing a game surrounded by other games.
Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Mustang Mach-E and drive 135 miles each way from Santa Rosa for my kid to play a soccer game in Modesto. In fact, I am going to personally thank the DOC at SRU for the privilege of being able to do this. I just know that Radcliffe and McGuire are going to drive out there, although they could just drive down the street next week.
Gosh, I am so glad we added Ajax. Instead of my daughter's Davis club making a fortune hosting events at its own complex, it is just so much better to give all that money to a different club. Plus, I get the added benefit of having to drive 90 miles each way in my Audi etron and stay at a glorified motor lodge that has a view of the 99 on one side and a youth correctional facility on the other. What a great business decision my child's club made.
Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Mustang Mach-E and drive 135 miles each way from Santa Rosa for my kid to play a soccer game in Modesto. In fact, I am going to personally thank the DOC at SRU for the privilege of being able to do this. I just know that Radcliffe and McGuire are going to drive out there, although they could just drive down the street next week.
Gosh, I am so glad we added Ajax. Instead of my daughter's Davis club making a fortune hosting events at its own complex, it is just so much better to give all that money to a different club. Plus, I get the added benefit of having to drive 90 miles each way in my Audi etron and stay at a glorified motor lodge that has a view of the 99 on one side and a youth correctional facility on the other. What a great business decision my child's club made.
Gosh, I ran out of logical arguments so all I have left is mockery.Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Tesla in Palo Alto and drive my kid 90 miles to Modesto and then back this weekend so she can play one game at a majestic soccer complex. I know my daughter's games are only played on one field at a time, but it is just so much better when she's playing a game surrounded by other games.
Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Mustang Mach-E and drive 135 miles each way from Santa Rosa for my kid to play a soccer game in Modesto. In fact, I am going to personally thank the DOC at SRU for the privilege of being able to do this. I just know that Radcliffe and McGuire are going to drive out there, although they could just drive down the street next week.
Gosh, I am so glad we added Ajax. Instead of my daughter's Davis club making a fortune hosting events at its own complex, it is just so much better to give all that money to a different club. Plus, I get the added benefit of having to drive 90 miles each way in my Audi etron and stay at a glorified motor lodge that has a view of the 99 on one side and a youth correctional facility on the other. What a great business decision my child's club made.
GoldenGate
GOLD
I can believe it. ECNL is just playing their little political games. Same as they played with Beach and Legends, and are still playing with Top Hat.
ECNL isn’t in the business of picking up good clubs. They are in the business of extracting parent money. As a result, ECNL is perfectly willing to schedule weak teams if they think it will be more profitable.
For parents, it is simpler. If there is a strong team near you, you should be playing against them. If you are skipping one, ask your coach why. You are, as GG said, the paying customer.
"If there is a strong team near you..."? How many times do I need to explain the incredibly obvious fact that Modesto is 135 miles away from Santa Rosa and 90 from Palo Alto? Fresno is over 200 and 160, respectively. Also, excluding Ajax and Clovis into ECNL is the opposite of "extracting money" from ECNL customers. It is saving them money because parents don't have to drive somewhere between 90-200 miles each way for 13 year old girls to play one soccer game. You are truly living in opposite land where near is far and saving money is spending money.
Say what you want about ECNL, a conspiracy to extract money, "political" or whatever bs you want. The truth is ECNL is actually in the
business of providing girls with the opportunity to best leverage their ability to play soccer into college opportunity, and it does so highly efficiently and tremendous success. And we know it provides good value both because customers just keep on coming an because it crushed GDA like a grape.
"If there is a strong team near you..."? How many times do I need to explain the incredibly obvious fact that Modesto is 135 miles away from Santa Rosa and 90 from Palo Alto? Fresno is over 200 and 160, respectively. Also, excluding Ajax and Clovis into ECNL is the opposite of "extracting money" from ECNL customers. It is saving them money because parents don't have to drive somewhere between 90-200 miles each way for 13 year old girls to play one soccer game. You are truly living in opposite land where near is far and saving money is spending money.
Say what you want about ECNL, a conspiracy to extract money, "political" or whatever bs you want. The truth is ECNL is actually in the
business of providing girls with the opportunity to best leverage their ability to play soccer into college opportunity, and it does so highly efficiently and tremendous success. And we know it provides good value both because customers just keep on coming an because it crushed GDA like a grape.
As long as you have Google maps up, how far away are those ECNL league games in Colorado and Washington?
Good thing those 13 year old girls don’t have to travel all the way to Modesto. That would be a real pain in the tuckus.
GoldenGate
GOLD
As long as you have Google maps up, how far away are those ECNL league games in Colorado and Washington?
Good thing those 13 year old girls don’t have to travel all the way to Modesto. That would be a real pain in the tuckus.
Again, you confuse "can" and "must". If Colorado to Seattle is the distance standard, great, let's put Modesto and Fresno in with SoCal, which is only about 1/5 the distance. It's much less of a pain in the tuckus for San Diego Surf to fly to Fresno for a soccer game than for Real Colorado to fly to Seattle, so therefore it's a good idea, right? I am sure they will love it once you explain that it's only fair! In fact, Fresno and Modesto are closer to Colorado than Seattle, so let's put them in with those clubs, and Seattle in with the Bay Area since it's closer to the Bay Area than Colorado! This all makes so much sense.
They could. Or, they could put Modesto in with norcal, because Modesto is in northern California.Again, you confuse "can" and "must". If Colorado to Seattle is the distance standard, great, let's put Modesto and Fresno in with SoCal, which is only about 1/5 the distance. It's much less of a pain in the tuckus for San Diego Surf to fly to Fresno for a soccer game than for Real Colorado to fly to Seattle, so therefore it's a good idea, right? I am sure they will love it once you explain that it's only fair! In fact, Fresno and Modesto are closer to Colorado than Seattle, so let's put them in with those clubs, and Seattle in with the Bay Area since it's closer to the Bay Area than Colorado! This all makes so much sense.
Then we could take some of that money we used to spend on airfare and buy you a map.
GoldenGate
GOLD
They could. Or, they could put Modesto in with norcal, because Modesto is in northern California.
Then we could take some of that money we used to spend on airfare and buy you a map.
Yes, I have a map and also a brain, so I know they can and will leave Ajax and Clovis where they already are and where they belong, which is somewhere other than ECNL. You can engage in as much self-pity as you want, but the truth is Ajax and Clovis will not get into ECNL for the same reason they have never gotten into ECNL. They have nothing to offer and are located in remote shitholes. Just as Colorado needs to travel to Seattle to play high level games, MVLA does not need to travel to the central valley.
SoccerJones
SILVER
No, you are the problem with US Soccer mouth breather. You want to make the same mistake that US Soccer made with the failed GDA, which is to create leagues that make absolutely no sense based on financial or geographic reality. The ECNL NorCal clubs have a great thing that has worked for a decade, and which drove a stake into the heart of the same bs that you want to recreate. It is clear that you're a jealous cheapskate who wants to crash the gate without paying the price of admission.
Claiming a Fresno/Clovis club could ever be as good a club as Mustang or MVLA is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. MVLA in particular put more girls into Stanford the last two years than the Fresno area has had play in the Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 combined in all of its history. If you add in the kids that the Fresno area has placed at top WCC schools like Santa Clara and Pepperdine, you go from 2 to maybe 6 or 7. Ever. There just aren't enough good players in that area with parents who have the time and money to do what is necessary to create a sufficient number of elite players. And although they can occasionally put together a team that is good enough to compete against some ECNL clubs, you completely miss the point of what ECNL is since everything you say is premised on the idea of "the best teams should play in the same league" regardless of how financially unstable they are and how little sense it makes geographically.
What is your problem with electric cars? I take it you're unemployed PWT with a Dodge Challenger, and you can't afford ECNL because you're having a hard time making the car payments on your gas guzzler?
I think that the GDA's failures was less to do with geographical location and more to do with stupid rules. 1) no high school soccer. That took away ALL of the socal schools because all of the kids use that as an avenue to have fun and represent their schools and communities. 2) substitution rules. I once was talking with the DOC from a prominent ECNL club and they expressed frustration with the 3 sub per game rule. How is that developing players when some don't even play in a game. 3) not allowing dual affiliations. That took teams like Force, Mustang, and MVLA have to pick and choose-remember they were founding members of the GDA and first to pull out before it even began. None of those team wanted to also give up HS...
They had the chance to change the landscape and screwed it up royally.
GoldenGate
GOLD
I think that the GDA's failures was less to do with geographical location and more to do with stupid rules. 1) no high school soccer. That took away ALL of the socal schools because all of the kids use that as an avenue to have fun and represent their schools and communities. 2) substitution rules. I once was talking with the DOC from a prominent ECNL club and they expressed frustration with the 3 sub per game rule. How is that developing players when some don't even play in a game. 3) not allowing dual affiliations. That took teams like Force, Mustang, and MVLA have to pick and choose-remember they were founding members of the GDA and first to pull out before it even began. None of those team wanted to also give up HS...
They had the chance to change the landscape and screwed it up royally.
High school soccer was obviously an important reason and probably the most one, but the travel was a close second, especially for NorCal. Teams were required to fly to OR, WA, and UT just to play league games. They were required to fly across the country to FL (and miss almost a week of school the week before finals) in December, and then do it again in the spring to NC. Plus another couple trips to SD. And then some Quakes teams got a bonus trip to freakin' Kansas City on top of that. It was ridiculously stupid and financially unsustainable for many families.
But the point here is there is zero reason any of the those clubs want to drive to Modesto or Clovis. Not a single person here has provided a single reason that any ECNL club would benefit from adding them, because they can't. And all this bs about how CO flies to WA so MVLA should want to drive to Modesto is the same logic as "@dad4 needs a colostomy bag to survive, so therefore everyone else should carry around as similar bag of shit too."
I should also point out that Force did not pull out of ECNL before it began. It tried to get sneaky by creating "Thorns" for GDA while trying to keep Force for ECNL, and then got kicked out of ECNL because of it. They are fortunate they were allowed to come back.
Travel was, and still is, a problem.High school soccer was obviously an important reason and probably the most one, but the travel was a close second, especially for NorCal. Teams were required to fly to OR, WA, and UT just to play league games. They were required to fly across the country to FL (and miss almost a week of school the week before finals) in December, and then do it again in the spring to NC. Plus another couple trips to SD. And then some Quakes teams got a bonus trip to freakin' Kansas City on top of that. It was ridiculously stupid and financially unsustainable for many families.
But the point here is there is zero reason any of the those clubs want to drive to Modesto or Clovis. Not a single person here has provided a single reason that any ECNL club would benefit from adding them, because they can't. And all this bs about how CO flies to WA so MVLA should want to drive to Modesto is the same logic as "@dad4 needs a colostomy bag to survive, so therefore everyone else should carry around as similar bag of shit too."
I should also point out that Force did not pull out of ECNL before it began. It tried to get sneaky by creating "Thorns" for GDA while trying to keep Force for ECNL, and then got kicked out of ECNL because of it. They are fortunate they were allowed to come back.
What makes you think MVLA needs to fly to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle for league games? I understand scheduling a game between MVLA 04 and Real Co 04. Those teams are pretty amazing, so decent opponents are hard to find for them.
But not every NW conference team is that good. Does the Force 09 team really need airplanes to find decent opponents? Maybe they could win a game or two locally, first?