Cal Berkeley Coach (women) abusive

[crush]

I am going to give you advice although I know you won’t take since you only make poor decisions. Stop fantasizing that there is money in women’s soccer other than where it is, which is college opportunity and potentially scholarship money. Stop encouraging your kid to make horrible life decisions by encouraging her to go pro instead of to college. You say you can’t afford cable, yet you would encourage your kid to squander her presumed ability to leverage soccer to obtain college opportunities so she can make $20,000 a year and end up like her daddy?

Anyone who encourages their under 18 child to go pro instead of going to college is doing it for their own vanity and to their child’s detriment. Realistically, you have decided while they are still a child - and before they’re remotely old enough to have any idea what they want to do in life - that they will never be a doctor, dentist, lawyer, get an MBA, or anything else that requires substantially more education than an undergrad degree. And although in theory they can go back and get an undergrad degree (or even a professional degree) after making $20k a year for years, you have significantly reduced the likelihood that will happen because women in their mid 20s are unlikely to start college for a lot of reasons. Worse, you have caused them to be in the worst possible financial position to spend four years (or more if they want to go to grad school) to get through college. And if they were good enough to go pro at 18, you have almost certainly deprived them of a Stanford or UCLA education and substantial scholarship money in exchange for College of Phoenix.

No 17 year old girl should give up so much opportunity to live their daddy’s fantasy. And although you might delude yourself into thinking your child knows they want to be a pro soccer player instead of going to college, a minor lacks the life experience and forethought to comprehend the consequences of the decision you’re making for them and are just too young to know what is best for them long term. You are the parent and, as such, have the obligation to direct them into making the right decision. I have a real hard time understanding why any parent would encourage their kid to get to the point that they are 23 years old and broke with no advanced education and no job skills, compared to having a Stanford or USC degree and sufficient life experience (and options) to decide then whether they’d rather be a pro soccer player, go to grad school, or get a job. But, then again, it’s you and we know you’re all about bad decisions and burning bridges on behalf of your kid.

I know you point to Moultrie as a model for your kid, but you fail to realize that she is not really a pro soccer player. She went pro as a Nike spokesperson who, in so doing, gave up her ability to play in college. But she also was apparently paid enough money to cover the scholarship she was giving up. That means she still has the option of going to college at 18, unlike the kid of the idiot dad who didn’t get that money from Nike but still convinced his kid to give up her future to play soccer for $20k a year.

Doc, I understand what your business model is about and the only way you make your coin. You get paid to bring girls to college through soccer. The middleman is not needed anymore after Covid 19 is over. Girls will be able to whatever they want, unless Mr control freak tells them what is best for them. Money will not be a problem, trust me. Freedom is coming soon!!!

 

[crush]

absolutely on target here!

43, your so wrong!!!!

 

[crush]

absolutely on target here!

On target? Are you serious? Enjoy being with the Doc of all Docs. Wow 43, amazing!!!

 

[crush]

Hey everyone, this is not a vow. This is me listening to many advisors. I poke the bear too much and now bear is mad and is showing teeth and making threats. So I give the forum to yours truly, EOTL. He wanted it all and he was the one WHO said he's all powerful and always right. He wants me gone and now you all know why. Enjoy the forum everyone. Soccer will get way better some day USA!!!!!!!!

 

[MacDre]

I love Marshawn. My older kid (and my younger ones when there is a HS season) played Tech in non-league games and the ones at their house always made me think of that guy (and Rickey, of course).

Motherhood for college-educated women is starting later on average. I am not too worried about that w/r/t my own daughters. They are surrounded by professional women - attorneys, Drs, scientists - and they know that it can be done as a parent but the challenge is real.

I did make a passing reference to the social situation of a young player among adult pros but I want to return to it. My kids are 4 years apart - my oldest (22), next (18) and next (14, 14). My younger daughters idolize their older sister and I love it when they are together (but for Covid, I'd have let them head to campus to hang with big sis as I did as a HS freshman when my next closest sibling was a frosh at UCSB). But there are conversations of my 18yo that I have overheard and I can remember being 18 myself and it is clear that my 14yos are NOT their sister's peers (my 18yo can hang w/her older brother b/c the gap has closed). A 15yo hanging w/25yos? 25yos talking about social things that 25yos talk about? Or do they temper their conversation around "the kid"? Should they have to at that stage in life? Does that isolate the younger player or make her grow up faster in areas that are not "on the pitch"? I raised this way back when during a lengthy discussion on OM.

Look . . . if the path was so unique that turning pro provided an opportunity that might not otherwise be there (as in the case w/some of the teenage boys who stand to make million$$$), I'd counsel a different way. But I don't think that's the case as yet. It may change some day and there are even exceptions today (Horan's success v Pugh's path or Tierna going pro and thus availing herself of a World Cup bonus that she may not get in the future (since our senior team is so difficult to make and b/c injury and life can also get in the way).

I'm feel fortunate - and I think my daughter IS fortunate - that when she has to make that decision (if one is to be made), she will have plenty of people to consult with b/c of her youth, collegiate and YNT/WNT experience. There will be high end players, middle of the road players and those who clearly don't aspire for WC glory but are planning on playing for a year or two before grad school (in addition to coaches she has had and others w/whom she's developed relationships who can offer unbiased advice). And if my younger 2 get there, their sister will be their best advisor. Selfishly, I do hope she loves the game, has great success and is able to play at the next level. Why selfish? B/c how many people get to watch their children perform in their profession? I can say that in all the years that my parents were alive when I was in my profession (well, my mom died not long after I started practicing, my dad in the last couple of years), they never ONCE sat in my office and watched my draft or review a contract.

Sorry for the very long-winded replies. This is the stuff that I miss discussing w/folks in person over coffee or a beer, around a fire at a hotel during a tournament or a poke bowl at some strip all.

I think the social situation can be extremely difficult for a 15 year old at a foreign club. For the most part futbol clubs are cutthroat competitive environments not conducive to making friends. For players coming from a typical soccer club environment there will be class issues and language barriers to overcome too. Most of the players at the clubs have Ph.D’s; they’re Poor, Hungry, & Determined. Players are fighting to pull their families out of abject poverty and it’s hard to compete against them if one is merely playing for fun.

You are 100% correct about the social issues and anyone considering my path should also note that my player has been at Club Tijuana since she was 4 and will possibly be the first person to start with the 4-5 years old age group and make it to the first team for Xolo’s. The coaching staff feels as if she is their work product and she’s probably getting special treatment. My player has the option of hanging with the U17 team but the social dynamic is weird because most on the U17 team know their “competitive” futbol careers will be over at 16 when they aren’t selected for the first team and cut loose. And it’s an open secret my player is going to the first team. So imagine being the youngest and ALL of the older girls are jealous and resentful. I don’t know how (I think it’s b/c she’s German) but my daughters best friend is interested in sports management and will be traveling to all games with her. I am authorized to travel with the team too.

If I were German-American club wanting to explore German culture close to home, Tijuana would be my first choice as the owners and many of the power brokers in Mexico are German. There’s a German International School located on the Club Tijuana facility. Beginning in middle school my kid started hanging with the German kids and her conversational German is getting good. I recently learned that Texas was actually the German part of Mexico before it was lost to the USA. So, as strange as it may seem the German kids in Mexico still speak German and they aren’t recent immigrants either.

Wifey gets her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine this upcoming Saturday so we’ll have plenty of time to chop it up over a beverage of your choice soon. First round on me.

 

[suzysoccer1]

Big pipe dream, right 43 lol. Dream the dreams bro and let the dreamers dream whatever dreams they want for their life. OM has worked harder then anyone I know that my dd played against and saw her hard work first hand. She has a dream and Nike is helping her with that dream. She has all the skills one needs to go to the next level. Can she hang athletically and mentally is going to be the question? I wish her nothing but the best and I applaud her for going all in for soccer. I can tell you the little that I do know about her is she is 100% committed to be the best she can be. Her parents have the means to support that dream and she even earned a pro contract at 13 years old and walked away from college game.

Guaranteed she plays one semester at UNC in 2023. Then leaves and goes overseas. Heard it here first.

 

[suzysoccer1]

I am going to give you advice although I know you won’t take since you only make poor decisions. Stop fantasizing that there is money in women’s soccer other than where it is, which is college opportunity and potentially scholarship money. Stop encouraging your kid to make horrible life decisions by encouraging her to go pro instead of to college. You say you can’t afford cable, yet you would encourage your kid to squander her presumed ability to leverage soccer to obtain college opportunities so she can make $20,000 a year and end up like her daddy?

Anyone who encourages their under 18 child to go pro instead of going to college is doing it for their own vanity and to their child’s detriment. Realistically, you have decided while they are still a child - and before they’re remotely old enough to have any idea what they want to do in life - that they will never be a doctor, dentist, lawyer, get an MBA, or anything else that requires substantially more education than an undergrad degree. And although in theory they can go back and get an undergrad degree (or even a professional degree) after making $20k a year for years, you have significantly reduced the likelihood that will happen because women in their mid 20s are unlikely to start college for a lot of reasons. Worse, you have caused them to be in the worst possible financial position to spend four years (or more if they want to go to grad school) to get through college. And if they were good enough to go pro at 18, you have almost certainly deprived them of a Stanford or UCLA education and substantial scholarship money in exchange for College of Phoenix.

No 17 year old girl should give up so much opportunity to live their daddy’s fantasy. And although you might delude yourself into thinking your child knows they want to be a pro soccer player instead of going to college, a minor lacks the life experience and forethought to comprehend the consequences of the decision you’re making for them and are just too young to know what is best for them long term. You are the parent and, as such, have the obligation to direct them into making the right decision. I have a real hard time understanding why any parent would encourage their kid to get to the point that they are 23 years old and broke with no advanced education and no job skills, compared to having a Stanford or USC degree and sufficient life experience (and options) to decide then whether they’d rather be a pro soccer player, go to grad school, or get a job. But, then again, it’s you and we know you’re all about bad decisions and burning bridges on behalf of your kid.

I know you point to Moultrie as a model for your kid, but you fail to realize that she is not really a pro soccer player. She went pro as a Nike spokesperson who, in so doing, gave up her ability to play in college. But she also was apparently paid enough money to cover the scholarship she was giving up. That means she still has the option of going to college at 18, unlike the kid of the idiot dad who didn’t get that money from Nike but still convinced his kid to give up her future to play soccer for $20k a year.

Damn it to hell. I usually disagree with you on everything but here you are spot on. Got to give credit when it’s good.

 

[dk_b]

Guaranteed she plays one semester at UNC in 2023. Then leaves and goes overseas. Heard it here first.

How would she regain her NCAA eligibility if she has received payment for a sports-related endorsement deal? (I'm not taking issue with what you are saying but just curious)

 

[dad4]

How would she regain her NCAA eligibility if she has received payment for a sports-related endorsement deal? (I'm not taking issue with what you are saying but just curious)

I suspect it will have something to do with athletes regaining control of their name, image, and likeness. Has OM actually received money to play, or only to endorse?

 

[EOTL]

How would she regain her NCAA eligibility if she has received payment for a sports-related endorsement deal? (I'm not taking issue with what you are saying but just curious)

For now she can’t. That said, I suspect her parents understood which way the wind was blowing with NCAA restrictions prohibiting players from benefiting financially from endorsements and took a calculated gamble that the NCAA will change those rules by the time she is a freshman. Note that she hasn’t taken money to play because, if she had, she’d be done.

 

[warrior49]

Follow OM's parents on Instagram sometime and see what time it is. Peddling essential oils and how "successful" their daughter is... because of said essential oils. Nonsense. Like EOTL said, she's largely a spokesperson for Nike. Though I really have to ask who is going to buy Nike cleats because OM wears them? Come on. Pick an athlete who's done something.

 

[Kicker4Life]

I am going to give you advice although I know you won’t take since you only make poor decisions. Stop fantasizing that there is money in women’s soccer other than where it is, which is college opportunity and potentially scholarship money. Stop encouraging your kid to make horrible life decisions by encouraging her to go pro instead of to college. You say you can’t afford cable, yet you would encourage your kid to squander her presumed ability to leverage soccer to obtain college opportunities so she can make $20,000 a year and end up like her daddy?

Anyone who encourages their under 18 child to go pro instead of going to college is doing it for their own vanity and to their child’s detriment. Realistically, you have decided while they are still a child - and before they’re remotely old enough to have any idea what they want to do in life - that they will never be a doctor, dentist, lawyer, get an MBA, or anything else that requires substantially more education than an undergrad degree. And although in theory they can go back and get an undergrad degree (or even a professional degree) after making $20k a year for years, you have significantly reduced the likelihood that will happen because women in their mid 20s are unlikely to start college for a lot of reasons. Worse, you have caused them to be in the worst possible financial position to spend four years (or more if they want to go to grad school) to get through college. And if they were good enough to go pro at 18, you have almost certainly deprived them of a Stanford or UCLA education and substantial scholarship money in exchange for College of Phoenix.

No 17 year old girl should give up so much opportunity to live their daddy’s fantasy. And although you might delude yourself into thinking your child knows they want to be a pro soccer player instead of going to college, a minor lacks the life experience and forethought to comprehend the consequences of the decision you’re making for them and are just too young to know what is best for them long term. You are the parent and, as such, have the obligation to direct them into making the right decision. I have a real hard time understanding why any parent would encourage their kid to get to the point that they are 23 years old and broke with no advanced education and no job skills, compared to having a Stanford or USC degree and sufficient life experience (and options) to decide then whether they’d rather be a pro soccer player, go to grad school, or get a job. But, then again, it’s you and we know you’re all about bad decisions and burning bridges on behalf of your kid.

I know you point to Moultrie as a model for your kid, but you fail to realize that she is not really a pro soccer player. She went pro as a Nike spokesperson who, in so doing, gave up her ability to play in college. But she also was apparently paid enough money to cover the scholarship she was giving up. That means she still has the option of going to college at 18, unlike the kid of the idiot dad who didn’t get that money from Nike but still convinced his kid to give up her future to play soccer for $20k a year.

It’s rare we see eye to eye, but you have a valid point and it should be acknowledged...My DD’s will go to college and if they want to keep playing after that and pro is an option, as another poster mentioned, why not! They are still networking, traveling, learning and experiencing life. All things they can parlay into their future endeavors.

 

[dk_b]

For now she can’t. That said, I suspect her parents understood which way the wind was blowing with NCAA restrictions prohibiting players from benefiting financially from endorsements and took a calculated gamble that the NCAA will change those rules by the time she is a freshman. Note that she hasn’t taken money to play because, if she had, she’d be done.

That's what I was assuming and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. The sums she received may be very different than limits the NCAA may impose (I'd expect some).

 

[suzysoccer1]

How would she regain her NCAA eligibility if she has received payment for a sports-related endorsement deal? (I'm not taking issue with what you are saying but just curious)

Because she the player received nothing. She didn’t sign a soccer deal she signed a PR, modeling, acting deal. Just like a kid who is a actor or model. Money my guess was placed in a trust or parent run company. The assumption was she is pro at soccer when in legal reality in the U.S. you can not be until 18. Therefore the only reason she couldn’t play D1 is financial benefits to her or signing with an agent. Did she sign with an agent or did her parents? Legally not one is the same. The parents are way to smart to not find a way. My guess August of 2023 she is playing soccer at UNC wins a naty then signs her pro deal with Barca after the NCAA’s. By the time anyone figures it out she is already gone and who the hell in the NCAA is gonna punish Anson Dorance. Nobody.

 

[dk_b]

Because she the player received nothing. She didn’t sign a soccer deal she signed a PR, modeling, acting deal. Just like a kid who is a actor or model. Money my guess was placed in a trust or parent run company. The assumption was she is pro at soccer when in legal reality in the U.S. you can not be until 18. Therefore the only reason she couldn’t play D1 is financial benefits to her or signing with an agent. Did she sign with an agent or did her parents? Legally not one is the same. The parents are way to smart to not find a way. My guess August of 2023 she is playing soccer at UNC wins a naty then signs her pro deal with Barca after the NCAA’s. By the time anyone figures it out she is already gone and who the hell in the NCAA is gonna punish Anson Dorance. Nobody.

Her endorsement is because of the sport and that has, historically, been disqualifying. And whether she signed or her parents did on her behalf may be a distinction without a difference.

it is a new era and by ‘23, I’m quite certain some level of compensation will be permitted. The only question to me is what limitations will be imposed and then how will those be tested.

I hope she is able to play because I’d like to see her in that environment. And your bold prediction is interesting - not sure I’d ever have such certainty with such a young athlete. A lot of 18 yo can’t miss hoopsters we never hear from again. But, of course, there is LeBron.

 

[EOTL]

Follow OM's parents on Instagram sometime and see what time it is. Peddling essential oils and how "successful" their daughter is... because of said essential oils. Nonsense. Like EOTL said, she's largely a spokesperson for Nike. Though I really have to ask who is going to buy Nike cleats because OM wears them? Come on. Pick an athlete who's done something.

OM was a test case for Nike in terms of determining whether a 13 year old girl can be a lucrative brand ambassador, not because it believed she is destined for greatness. The ridiculous era of the social media brand ambassador is still relatively new and there are often surprises about what does and doesn’t work. It’s not like the parents of a kid that good have ever knocked on Nike’s door willing to throw away a free ride from the likes of UNC for a few shekels before, so why not try out a 13 year old girl since the price is right and see what happens?

Looking at this from the outside, OM doesn’t work. The aggressive social media campaign seems to have tapered off, and neither she nor Nike seem particularly motivated to move Nike product through her at this point. The group you’d think would be Nike’s target, elite girls soccer players, mostly roll their eyes when she’s mentioned instead of running out to buy cleats. And those outside the world of elite girls soccer have no idea who she is or why she’s in a Nike ad, and couldn’t care less. You could throw any 13 year old girl into a Nike ad and the only people who recognize her are people who don’t seem to be drawn to Nike because of her.

Maybe Nike looked at signing her as an investment in the future in case she someday becomes a star, but I doubt it. If there is one thing Nike has perfected, it’s determining potential. Yes, she seems to be incredibly motivated to be the best soccer player she can be and is technically remarkable for her age. However, undeniable fact is that her ceiling is capped by her relatively limited athletic ability, and Nike certainly knew that at the time. There is no amount of technical ability that makes up for the deficit in pure speed and quickness. Regardless, there’s only room in the U.S. for three WNT midfielders per generation who can conceivably sell product in any quantity. The odds that any 13 year old kid will become one of them is only slightly better than the odds that you will see a dinosaur. There’s no way Nike spent $100k or more on a 13 year old when recent federal lawsuits have shown us that $25k (plus the 5 cent paper bag the cash comes in) is the going rate for an 18 year old male HS basketball star.

 

[Soccerfan2]

Because she the player received nothing. She didn’t sign a soccer deal she signed a PR, modeling, acting deal. Just like a kid who is a actor or model. Money my guess was placed in a trust or parent run company. The assumption was she is pro at soccer when in legal reality in the U.S. you can not be until 18. Therefore the only reason she couldn’t play D1 is financial benefits to her or signing with an agent. Did she sign with an agent or did her parents? Legally not one is the same. The parents are way to smart to not find a way. My guess August of 2023 she is playing soccer at UNC wins a naty then signs her pro deal with Barca after the NCAA’s. By the time anyone figures it out she is already gone and who the hell in the NCAA is gonna punish Anson Dorance. Nobody.

She receives a shitload of Nike gear, which I have to hear about from my jealous DD when she sees her. “Mom she has a different pair of NICE Nike’s every single day!”
Would be nice to see her end up playing in college, but I doubt it. They (parents and her) want the pro environment, not just the endorsement. If the NWSL is still going, I think she’ll be there. Interesting perspective on giving up amateur status though - hasn’t thought about that before.

 

[MacDre]

OM was a test case for Nike in terms of determining whether a 13 year old girl can be a lucrative brand ambassador, not because it believed she is destined for greatness. The ridiculous era of the social media brand ambassador is still relatively new and there are often surprises about what does and doesn’t work. It’s not like the parents of a kid that good have ever knocked on Nike’s door willing to throw away a free ride from the likes of UNC for a few shekels before, so why not try out a 13 year old girl since the price is right and see what happens?

Looking at this from the outside, OM doesn’t work. The aggressive social media campaign seems to have tapered off, and neither she nor Nike seem particularly motivated to move Nike product through her at this point. The group you’d think would be Nike’s target, elite girls soccer players, mostly roll their eyes when she’s mentioned instead of running out to buy cleats. And those outside the world of elite girls soccer have no idea who she is or why she’s in a Nike ad, and couldn’t care less. You could throw any 13 year old girl into a Nike ad and the only people who recognize her are people who don’t seem to be drawn to Nike because of her.

Maybe Nike looked at signing her as an investment in the future in case she someday becomes a star, but I doubt it. If there is one thing Nike has perfected, it’s determining potential. Yes, she seems to be incredibly motivated to be the best soccer player she can be and is technically remarkable for her age. However, undeniable fact is that her ceiling is capped by her relatively limited athletic ability, and Nike certainly knew that at the time. There is no amount of technical ability that makes up for the deficit in pure speed and quickness. Regardless, there’s only room in the U.S. for three WNT midfielders per generation who can conceivably sell product in any quantity. The odds that any 13 year old kid will become one of them is only slightly better than the odds that you will see a dinosaur. There’s no way Nike spent $100k or more on a 13 year old when recent federal lawsuits have shown us that $25k (plus the 5 cent paper bag the cash comes in) is the going rate for an 18 year old male HS basketball star.

Damn. They had me fooled.

 

[EOTL]

Damn. They had me fooled.

Isn’t fooling people the entire point of advertising?

 

[TOSDCI]

I never said I didn’t want my kid to play college. My kid wouldn’t have been identified if we had not shown interest in college. I am saying after doing extensive research, it appears that the college environment is abusive and not beneficial to development more often than not.

So, again it’s my position that development in college is a fallacy with a few possible exceptions. If folks want their kids developed, it would behoove them to stop drinking the Kool-Aide and look elsewhere for that development. Again, you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.

If you have a son that is very talented and is trying to make a career of soccer, then yes. That kid should skip college and try to play in Europe. If you have a daughter that is talented but will probably not make the USWNT, I would definitely have her play in college while getting a degree. The payout from a college degree is way more than playing professional soccer (at this point).

 

[MacDre]

I attended the semifinals and final of the past women’s world cup in Lyon. Based on what I observed, I think making the USWNT roster is attainable.
Why is it so hard to hard to make the roster for USWNT? Why does USWNT keep players until their damn near 40?