Cal Berkeley Coach (women) abusive

Soccerfan2 said:
Many people have told you many times that rambling on endlessly about your past, posting on every thread and posting song lyrics, memes and photos is annoying and unwanted. If you don’t want to turn people off, take the social feedback that you receive and put it to use.
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Amen!
 
full90 said:
Women’s college soccer and men’s college soccer are two very different things. There’s no practical use in comparing them.
men’s college soccer is not an optimum development environment because around the world other 18-22 year olds are in a professional environment with year round training, and a development ladder to the first team. They are assets. In the US, men’s players are limited to 20 games in the fall and limited practice time. Plus classes and life. And most are paying to do so.

the women’s college game differs because the rest of the world doesn’t provide a training environment for their 18-22 year olds. So US colleges are the best there is. Only now are professional clubs in Europe developing academies for women that aren’t yet on the first team. But it’s not the same as US colleges. It’s still the best environment for an 18-22 year old. Which is why we’ve won internationally. Our youth and college system is producing much better players.
will the rest of the world catch up? Maybe. Other countries play better football than we do but don’t have the depth and athleticism to compete consistently. As those youth and pre professional academies grow our gap over the rest of the world will narrow.
To skip college and go pro worked out for Horan. She’s much better now than when she skipped college and left for Europe. Would she have developed at the same rate at UNC? Who knows?

I’ve watched college soccer for years. Especially in so cal and the pac 12. I know a few so cal soccer coaches so by no means am I an expert or anything. I played division one athletics and from my experience the kids who want to improve will. Everyone as a high schooler and freshman in college wants to be a pro. Everyone. But college sports is HARD. You realize pretty quickly if you want to be a pro it is exceptionally hard. The work required to go above and beyond what is already asked of you is a lot. Some people have the talent to make it without the grind. Some people are wired to grind.

After being around it for a long time I’d say the development of a player has more to do with them than the coach. Cal has produced a ton of pros but their teams are just not that good for who they have. Those kids could’ve probably gone to sac state and gone pro. If Neil was developing them from unfinished players into pros then we’d see the results on the field. But finishing 5th in conference and never winning an ncaa second round game EVER isn’t a sign that a ton of coaching is happening.
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So moving forward as we see Europe and Mexico develop their leagues, do we continue with a flawed college system that was only successful because women in other places around the world didn’t have access to training and the large amount of female players here?

I also think 18-22 is too late for players that want to go pro. My kids pediatrician and club are telling her 15-16 years old is when she should debut professionally. I see FIFA implementing a pilot program in Mexico that they plan to eventually take to other less developed Federations. I see folks here focused on past successes while ignoring the future.

I guess the reason that I am making a big fuss is because I think the system is flawed and The Jeweler is being used as a scapegoat. Wouldn’t the ladies also benefit from a 2 semester college system?
 
full90 said:
You realize pretty quickly if you want to be a pro it is exceptionally hard. The work required to go above and beyond what is already asked of you is a lot. Some people have the talent to make it without the grind. Some people are wired to grind.

After being around it for a long time I’d say the development of a player has more to do with them than the coach. Cal has produced a ton of pros but their teams are just not that good for who they have. Those kids could’ve probably gone to sac state and gone pro. If Neil was developing them from unfinished players into pros then we’d see the results on the field. But finishing 5th in conference and never winning an ncaa second round game EVER isn’t a sign that a ton of coaching is happening.
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A wise youth coach once told me players develop themselves more then a coach taking all the credit or the club taking the credit for where the goat player ends up. It's marketing 101. If the pay is their for the girls someday, then why not work hard for a nice reward. You would welcome a little "yell" or "push" to be better. Right now the reward to lay your body on the line and risk it all is a opportunity to play at a college for free if you got 4.0 plus excellent skills and obey always. It's a full time job 90 with no pay. Thanks for sharing your sage experience. Truth hurts sometimes.
 
MacDre said:
I agree with almost everything you have written, but you argument is separate and distinct from what @LASTMAN14 and @sdb are arguing.

It seems there are some that think D1 college soccer is similar to the 4H club-a place where young folks get mentored, supported, and encouraged to pursue their goals. I disagree.

The last 2 videos that I posted is clear objective proof that college soccer does not make better soccer players. Folks like Macario don’t improve from college soccer. Rather, she is getting a degree from a great school for financial security. If we believe the numbers posted by MLS, it can be argued college soccer is counterproductive because of the schedule and high risk of injuries.

If we believe the young man in the video about how it is essential to listen to your coach tell you to do “dumb shit”, or you will not play it becomes very easy to understand how the Jeweler is bumping heads with young ladies that have an unrealistic goal of development on a P5 D1 soccer team.
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Even Macario will probably make more money from the Stanford degree than she makes playing pro soccer.

As long as that is true, it doesn't really matter whether colleges develop players. It matters whether colleges educate players. The rest is gravy.
 
dad4 said:
Even Macario will probably make more money from the Stanford degree than she makes playing pro soccer.

As long as that is true, it doesn't really matter whether colleges develop players. It matters whether colleges educate players. The rest is gravy.
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All NERDS in my household so education is definitely the top priority. I told my kid that if she wants me to support her pursuit of professional sports, that she has to have a STEM degree by 19. The problems these ladies are complaining about were immediately evident to me throughout the system not just Cal. I figured if my kid hit a college campus by 15, I could hold her hand and help her side step the BS and no one can tell me to kick rocks because she’s a minor. I try not to ever put my kid in a position where there is such a gross inequity of bargaining power.
 
So are you saying that someone is telling you club Tijuana has a women’s setup in place to lead to a pro career and by 15/16 your daughter should be there in order to go pro? Is that correct?
 
MacDre said:
So moving forward as we see Europe and Mexico develop their leagues, do we continue with a flawed college system that was only successful because women in other places around the world didn’t have access to training and the large amount of female players here?

I also think 18-22 is too late for players that want to go pro. My kids pediatrician and club are telling her 15-16 years old is when she should debut professionally. I see FIFA implementing a pilot program in Mexico that they plan to eventually take to other less developed Federations. I see folks here focused on past successes while ignoring the future.

I guess the reason that I am making a big fuss is because I think the system is flawed and The Jeweler is being used as a scapegoat. Wouldn’t the ladies also benefit from a 2 semester college system?
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They are exploring the 2 semester system and I think (could be wrong) that they had voted on it at some level prior to C19.

You have no empirical evidence to support your points that there's no development as there is no data either way (unless you count your videos as anything other than limited and anecdotal). In defense of my position, I would point to any number of freshman woman who over the course of their 4 years make it from redshirt/bench to periodic play to starting some games to starting all games. If the program's quality remains consistent over time then these players are improving and that improvement is most likely in both soccer and physical development.

Caterina Macario is an outlier in all respects. So is Jesse Fleming, yet she chose to go to UCLA over pro options available to her being from Canada and not limited like a USA player. Why UCLA? Because it was an environment in which she'd improve (i.e. develop). And bonus, a degree from a top school.
 
full90 said:
So are you saying that someone is telling you club Tijuana has a women’s setup in place to lead to a pro career and by 15/16 your daughter should be there in order to go pro? Is that correct?
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No, I am saying that my kid is in Fuerzas Basicas for Club Tijuana. I am saying that in Liga MX Femenil girls can sign pro contracts at 15 and play for the first team. There’s also no salary cap. One of my kids friends is in FIFA’s U17 Pilot for Mexico’s YNT and was recently promoted to the first team of Club Tijuana during the Covid break. Club Tijuana coaches have told my kid that she WILL move to the first team between 15-16. They moved her to Fuerzas Basicas at 12 (against my wishes) to prepare. Before the Covid outbreak she was already training in the stadium with the big girls and doing well.
 
I have a serious question and no satire @Dre. How much can a top 18 year old female make after HS School is over in 2022? I'm hearing lot's of money that has been in the wrong hands will now start getting into the hands of the actual girls who play the game. So instead of paying to play, they pay the girls to play.
 
crush said:
I have a serious question and no satire @Dre. How much can a top 18 year old female make after HS School is over in 2022? I'm hearing lot's of money that has been in the wrong hands will now start getting into the hands of the actual girls who play the game. So instead of paying to play, they pay the girls to play.
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I am not sure. At this point, I don’t think much until women’s games are televised more often. I think all families with girls need to insist that professional women’s games be televised so that these ladies can get paid.
 
MacDre said:
I am not sure. At this point, I don’t think much until women’s games are televised more often. I think all families with girls need to insist that professional women’s games be televised so that these ladies can get paid.
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I would love to see the WWSL kick off some day Dre.
 
MacDre said:
For those that think there’s development in college, can you reconcile your position with that of the D1 player in minute 3:50-5:20 of this video? Maybe the problem is that folks have unrealistic expectations of what happens in college soccer and not the Jeweler.

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Well, you can high press with control or you can press like an Australian shepherd. Don't blame the coach for that.
 
MacDre said:
I am not sure. At this point, I don’t think much until women’s games are televised more often. I think all families with girls need to insist that professional women’s games be televised so that these ladies can get paid.
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Stop with the "insist" nonsense. That's all society has become... "I insist you give me _________". It's fucking ridiculous.

The market demand drives televised sports like it drives everything else. 25 parents per college team isn't going to drive demand.
 
Scott m Shurson said:
Stop with the "insist" nonsense. That's all society has become... "I insist you give me _________". It's fucking ridiculous.

The market demand drives televised sports like it drives everything else. 25 parents per college team isn't going to drive demand.
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Actually this not true. In soccer/football women packed stadiums prior to men in England and Mexico and then men outlawed women playing the sport until about 1980.

We are talking about institutionalized sexism that needs to be remedied. The demand it out there for the ladies. The only problem is that we have too many tools in leadership that are holding the ladies back.
 
MacDre said:
Actually this not true. In soccer/football women packed stadiums prior to men in England and Mexico and then men outlawed women playing the sport until about 1980.

We are talking about institutionalized sexism that needs to be remedied. The demand it out there for the ladies. The only problem is that we have too many tools in leadership that are holding the ladies back.
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It's 2020, my man. If the best example you have is 40-years old, next?
 
@MacDre - you are correct that in countries that have developed womens professional leagues (e.g. Europe, Asia) elite female players are already identified by 15 and playing professionally by 16 and are NOT paying to play. The NWSL doesn't let players play until they are 18 and that's a bit late to get started imo. An elite 18 female yo German player for example has already played at least 3 years with older, experienced players and has had professional coaching.

I hate to see posters here mock players who want to play professionally.
After all, soccer is a sport. Why can't players get a degree after they finish playing professionally? I know I would hire someone with that kind of experience over an 21 year old grad with a doctored up resume with volunteering and unpaid summer internships. Life is about doing what you enjoy even if it doesn't pay a lot. Most of us will work until 65. Is starting at 30 as opposed to early 20's so bad? A lot of pro players are also doing their degrees online while playing - no it's not the fun US college experience, but being on a good pro team is a fun experience too.
 
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