Bad News Thread

[espola]

I gave you a variety of links a few days ago as to why there is no reason to be wearing masks when vaccinated.

CDC: Evidence suggests fully vaccinated people do not transmit COVID-19

More data is emerging about how effective COVID-19 vaccines are at making sure people do not get sick and reducing the chances they get others sick.

www.kxan.com

But the most important part of the recent CDC findings is that vaccinated people are very unlikely to suffer asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. Participants in the study who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines were 90% less likely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2. Of infections that did occur, only 10.7 percent were asymptomatic. Taken together, this means vaccinated people are highly unlikely to transmit the virus when they are not suffering symptoms.

It's official: Vaccinated people don't spread COVID-19 | Fortune

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky this week declared that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus."

fortune.com

"No reason"? Both of those articles admit that vaccinated people can still catch and spread the disease. Did someone tell you that they didn't?

And neither article describes how a vaccine works. Perhaps if you understood that (and you have presented no evidence that you do) you wouldn't be making all these errors.

 

[Desert Hound]

"Cuomo Aides Spent Months Hiding Nursing Home Death Toll Aides to the New York governor, Andrew M. Cuomo, repeatedly prevented state health officials from releasing the number of nursing home deaths in the pandemic.
The effort by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo's office to obscure the pandemic death toll in New York nursing homes was far greater than previously known, with aides repeatedly overruling state health officials over a span of at least five months, according to interviews and newly unearthed documents.

Mr. Cuomo's most senior aides engaged in a sustained effort to prevent the state's own health officials, including the commissioner, Howard Zucker, from releasing the true death toll to the public or sharing it with state lawmakers, these interviews and documents showed."

https://archive.is/PGtT6

Then you have this.

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is having a hard time holding his tongue.
The embattled governor lashed out Thursday, arguing it's not fair that the multiple women accusing him of sexual harassment have shared their stories publicly.

"What has happened is, the complainants have continued to go to the press and make their complaint in the press," Cuomo said during an appearance in Buffalo. "And I have not been able to respond. That's not fair and it's not right."

Cuomo claims ‘it’s not fair’ accusers have gone public with sexual harassment accusations

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is having a hard time holding his tongue. The embattled governor lashed out Thursday, arguing it’s “not fair” that the multiple women accusing him of sexual harassment have shared their stories publicly. “What has happened is, the complainants have...

news.yahoo.com

So you have a guy that ordered records to be hidden from the public/press regarding nursing home deaths AND been accused now of sexual harassment from 9 women (most if not all who worked for him)...and yet he is still in office. By the way arguing it isn't fair? This is a guy that when other politicians had women issues, he immediately believed the women and called for their resignations. Suddenly he has a more "nuanced" view of women coming forward.

The press hasn't really pushed the issue with flood the zone coverage, and the usual "defenders" of women remain rather quiet. If he were a Repub he likely would have been forced to resign by now because the coverage/outrage would have been rather different.

So I put this in the bad news thread. What would it actually take to remove this guy?

These are the people we vote for. Cuomo? Hey your dad was Gov once? Yep based on that we should vote for you. We do it all the time. Like some politician and then later when one of their kids gets old enough suddenly we vote based on that last name. Kennedy, Bush, Brown...and the list goes on.

 

[espola]

I agree they still want people to wear masks. Both recommend.

But at the same time they also say well there are no studies that show they actually work.

If you are going to make recommendations, it should be based on data/science. And yet they cannot at this time point to studies showing this. Which is why they both state more research needs to be done.

If masks worked, they would be pointing to the various studies supporting their suggestion people wear masks.

Prior to covid there however has been decades of studies related to masks and another similar virus (the flu). And they found that masks didn't work.

They both include references to studies that support wearing masks n order to reduce the spread of the disease.

Did someone tell you that they don't, so you feel no need to actually read them yourself?

 

[dad4]

Key difference being, choice.
Bar Owners, Waitresses and Hotel Maids didn’t have a choice about loosing their income. That was forced upon them to protect a small part of the population.

That small part of the population, the Elderly, Overweight (definitely a self treatable condition) and the Immunocompromised all could have chosen to stay at home, have the community help support their needs and/or protect themselves should they need to leave their protected spaces.

Saved the Tax Payers TRILLIONS of dollars.

You really think the people dying in this pandemic were all out partying? The octogenarians snuck out of the rest home to go clubbing?

It works more like this: Susan gets covid at Hound’s bar. Susan’s boyfriend Kevin gets covid from Susan. Kevin gives covid to his roommates. One of Kevin’s roommates, Robert, is a janitor at Oak View Retirement Home. Robert goes room to room, carrying out the trash and vacuuming. Now 15 seniors at Oak View have covid. Three days later Robert’s test comes back positive and Oak View locks down. They get the outbreak under control, but only after 45 infections and 4 deaths.

None of the 4 had any “choice” in the matter.

 

[crush]

You really think the people dying in this pandemic were all out partying? The octogenarians snuck out of the rest home to go clubbing?

It works more like this: Susan gets covid at Hound’s bar. Susan’s boyfriend Kevin gets covid from Susan. Kevin gives covid to his roommates. One of Kevin’s roommates, Robert, is a janitor at Oak View Retirement Home. Robert goes room to room, carrying out the trash and vacuuming. Now 15 seniors at Oak View have covid. Three days later Robert’s test comes back positive and Oak View locks down. They get the outbreak under control, but only after 45 infections and 4 deaths.

None of the 4 had any “choice” in the matter.

Dad4 + Espola= Espola

This is the biggest bullshit tracing lie ever btw. Did you come up with this BS from one of your contact tracing pals or out of your little brain? BTW, it was the AC Tech Guy that brought Rona to Hound's Bar & Grill. He snuck in from the back because Hound's Bar has super strict guidelines at the front door.

 

[Glitterhater]

Does Hound really have a bar? If so, I can see why his stance is so strongly where it is.

 

[crush]

Does Hound really have a bar? If so, I can see why his stance is so strongly where it is.

I have a bet on with Hound for drinks if my kids team beats his kids team. Dad was making up a scenario in his brain and made up Hound's Bar. I added, "& Grill" because it sounds better. Look what I found on Google search....lol

 

[Desert Hound]

Does Hound really have a bar? If so, I can see why his stance is so strongly where it is.

I run a biz that was severely affected by the virus. So when people run around and say shut your biz, lose everything, I say screw that.

When they try to shut schools I get more grumpy. Thankfully my kids avoid public school and didn't have to deal with those antics.

 

[Grace T.]

You realize that this phrase applies in both directions?

You wonder how I can care so little about bar owners, waitresses, and hotel maids.

I wonder how you can care so little about the elderly, the overweight, and the immunocompromised.

I just hope enough of us get the vaccine that it all becomes moot.

It won't if you care about cases and want zero deaths. Even if we control it in the US, there's still lots of seeding that can go on from the rest of the world which won't be finished vaccinating until at least 2023. Then there was a recent Vox video piece (thought about you) during it which points out that if the source was an animal transfer (as opposed to a lab escape/engineering) then there's also a redseed vector there for more variants.

 

[crush]

I run a biz that was severely affected by the virus. So when people run around and say shut your biz, lose everything, I say screw that.

When they try to shut schools I get more grumpy. Thankfully my kids avoid public school and didn't have to deal with those antics.

Sorry to hear that bro. I was tempted with a boiler room type of job selling loans over the phone but I just can;t do it. The drive to LA would kill me Hound. My old college friend is killing it doing loans in some high rise office building downtown LA. Making $240,000 a year he says but he just started 90 days ago so he's only on pace for two-forty. Dude leaves way South OC at 4am up to LA and leaves LA at 4pm to come home. No virtual sales job. Nope, cheeks in the seat 5 days a week. Only for producers. He get's home at 6pm. 14 man hours a day x 5= 70 hours a week. He said to make the big bucks you got to be committed. He even works some weekends, so two jobs basically. I heard his shit for 30 minutes and then told him he really has two jobs and on pace to make $120,000 each. He got pissed off. I told him to add it up and stop bragging and just keep it to yourself because it sounds like hell on earth. He looks horrible but told me he wants to retire in three years, not 6 and that is why he's working so hard. I'm not trying to be mean but he's at least 100 pounds over weight. I know he pulls into Jack in the box every morning on his way into LA. Then of course he hits Micky Dees on the way home. Comes home to an empty house ((wife left him years ago)) and does the same shit the next day and over and over. This guy, who I will call Hal, is one lonely dude. I love him to death but he's a mess. He took his vaccine shots

 

[Kicker4Life]

You really think the people dying in this pandemic were all out partying? The octogenarians snuck out of the rest home to go clubbing?

It works more like this: Susan gets covid at Hound’s bar. Susan’s boyfriend Kevin gets covid from Susan. Kevin gives covid to his roommates. One of Kevin’s roommates, Robert, is a janitor at Oak View Retirement Home. Robert goes room to room, carrying out the trash and vacuuming. Now 15 seniors at Oak View have covid. Three days later Robert’s test comes back positive and Oak View locks down. They get the outbreak under control, but only after 45 infections and 4 deaths.

None of the 4 had any “choice” in the matter.

You’re also assuming that Oak View doesn’t put certain policies in place to protect its Vulnerable clients. If Robert doesn’t like those policies, Robert can make a choice.

We aren’t going to change each other’s minds here.

 

[dad4]

It won't if you care about cases and want zero deaths. Even if we control it in the US, there's still lots of seeding that can go on from the rest of the world which won't be finished vaccinating until at least 2023. Then there was a recent Vox video piece (thought about you) during it which points out that if the source was an animal transfer (as opposed to a lab escape/engineering) then there's also a redseed vector there for more variants.

Reseeding doesn't matter if you have enough immunity. The new clusters fizzle out.

The exception would be if the new seed happens to be resistant to your vaccine. One more reason to help fund international vaccinations.

 

[Glitterhater]

I run a biz that was severely affected by the virus. So when people run around and say shut your biz, lose everything, I say screw that.

When they try to shut schools I get more grumpy. Thankfully my kids avoid public school and didn't have to deal with those antics.

Totally understand that.

 

[Grace T.]

Reseeding doesn't matter if you have enough immunity. The new clusters fizzle out.

The exception would be if the new seed happens to be resistant to your vaccine. One more reason to help fund international vaccinations.

The latter. Life tries to survive and 2 years is a really long time considering how much its mutated already.

It's also not just a money issue but a size issue, given the billions in India and China. The Chinese vaccine also doesn't work so well which adds to the problem.

 

[dad4]

The latter. Life tries to survive and 2 years is a really long time considering how much its mutated already.

It's also not just a money issue but a size issue, given the billions in India and China. The Chinese vaccine also doesn't work so well which adds to the problem.

Time is the wrong way to look at mutations. Don’t try to measure it in mutations per day. A 20 year old disease with very few hosts will also have had very few chances to mutate. (ebola) A 1 year old disease with a billion hosts will have had a billion chances to mutate. (covid)

Measure it in mutations per total person infected. So, how many more people will be infected before we can get vaccine everywhere? And how many people have been infected so far?

By that measure, the world has had maybe 1 billion people infected and 2 billion people live in countries willing to manage it. Which leaves 5 billion people to get vaccinated, get sick, or get lucky. If you take a swag of 2 billion hosts, 2 billion vaccinated, and 1 billion lucky, then we’ve already seen perhaps 1/3 of the total mutations which will develop. (because we’ve seen 1/3 of the cases)

 

[Grace T.]

Time is the wrong way to look at mutations. Don’t try to measure it in mutations per day. A 20 year old disease with very few hosts will also have had very few chances to mutate. (ebola) A 1 year old disease with a billion hosts will have had a billion chances to mutate. (covid)

Measure it in mutations per total person infected. So, how many more people will be infected before we can get vaccine everywhere? And how many people have been infected so far?

By that measure, the world has had maybe 1 billion people infected and 2 billion people live in countries willing to manage it. Which leaves 5 billion people to get vaccinated, get sick, or get lucky. If you take a swag of 2 billion hosts, 2 billion vaccinated, and 1 billion lucky, then we’ve already seen perhaps 1/3 of the total mutations which will develop. (because we’ve seen 1/3 of the cases)

“2 billion people live in countries willing to manage it”...euphemism for China and some of the other mainland Asian countries+ Australia and New Zealand and Taiwan? The issue with China is their vaccine doesn’t work very well...from that data in Chile maybe not at all.

I agree you have to look at number of infections. But with vaccinations you need to look at time because it allows those infections to occur. In reality the world won’t be finished vaccinating until 2023 at the earliest which gives people a lot of time to get infected. I saw a regression study the other day but now can’t find it but it was pretty neat...you would have appreciated the math...it argued given the mutation curves (since at least 8 variants were already at play in January 2020) case 1 of covid had to have taken place in winter 2018-2019. again purely a math model and we all know how those have worked out.

as you pointed out even with a million doses per day it would take India years to fully vaccinate.

 

[crush]

Crush is selling high quality air. PM me and I'll make deal with you

 

[crush]

 

[Grace T.]

Don't agree with everything in the article, but it makes some good points, arguing that lockdowns-political correctness-current adverse risk child rearing is all connected with a desire for safety. Some parts made me smile because it reminds me of someone we all know and love.

Why lockdown has become a lifestyle

The culture of fear has made a lifetime of quarantine look attractive.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[dad4]

“2 billion people live in countries willing to manage it”...euphemism for China and some of the other mainland Asian countries+ Australia and New Zealand and Taiwan? The issue with China is their vaccine doesn’t work very well...from that data in Chile maybe not at all.

I agree you have to look at number of infections. But with vaccinations you need to look at time because it allows those infections to occur. In reality the world won’t be finished vaccinating until 2023 at the earliest which gives people a lot of time to get infected. I saw a regression study the other day but now can’t find it but it was pretty neat...you would have appreciated the math...it argued given the mutation curves (since at least 8 variants were already at play in January 2020) case 1 of covid had to have taken place in winter 2018-2019. again purely a math model and we all know how those have worked out.

as you pointed out even with a million doses per day it would take India years to fully vaccinate.

I would think Serum Institute of India can produce far more than a million doses per day.

But yes, the problem is scale. Doing something 8 billion times will be slow. Fortunately, we have the option of building capacity over the next year. I hope we are doing it already.

 

[Grace T.]

Interesting what's happening in India shouldn't be happening. Seroprevalence in some areas was 50%. Should be topping out. This guy things there's natural immunity breakthrough (i.e., reinfection) but he's optimistic vaccine breakthroughs are low.