Bad News Thread

[EvilGoalie 21]

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I usually consider tweets like this as political internet meme and not worth looking at. Exception in this case. The link below is a different take on the attendant consequences of the high Indian serum Ab levels. Bottom line: three estimates suggest an Indian mortality of ~4 million from this past spring.

https://cgdev.org/sites/default/files/three-new-estimates-indias-all-cause-excess-mortality-during-covid-19-pandemic.pdf

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

They can't have it both ways. Either the vaccines are a massive failure in being able to keep symptomatic illness away (as opposed to hospitalizations/death for which its clear the vaccine works) in which case why are you pushing it on the young and healthy, or they work (in which case why all these restrictions).

CDC mask decision followed stunning findings from Cape Cod beach outbreak

The CDC's mask decision followed stunning findings from a Cape Cod beach outbreak. The viral load of vaccinated beachgoers changed what we know about the delta variant.

abcnews.go.com

I think you are cognizant enough to appreciate that there is no they, ultimately, there is just us, imperfect as that might be.

I see it this way. The primary goal of the vaccines is to save lives directly, by offsetting morbidity associated with infection. A secondary goal is to save lives indirectly, by making as big a dent in community transmission as possible by reducing infection through a combination of sanitizing immunity and acquired immunity.

The data that the CDC is supposed to release tomorrow, from what I've seen of the slides floating around online, shows three main things. Nothing really unexpected but I expect a continuing public relation disaster. First, delta is very infectious. The range that's been floating around is R0 5-8. It's probably at the high end of that. The messaging will be "infectious as chickenpox". It's important to realize that maintaining sanitizing immunity levels of neutralizing antibodies (ie any infecting virus particle is simply preventing from binding its receptor) to that sort of virus is really challenging. Second, the data will show that, despite this, the vaccines still provide really good efficacy to susceptible people. Efficiencies still in the mid-upper 80%. In the real world, that's a good vaccine. The third thing is the bad news, which again is not necessarily a surprise for anyone paying attention. Given the titer of delta, vaxxed/infected people can (and the key here is whether the data is all vaxxed people vs "breakthrough infection" people) appear transmissible as non-vaxxed people. These are issues there a bio-stat person needs to look at and undoubtably are. But on that secondary criterion for a vaccine delta may simply be too much. For reasons i have outlined previously, i hope the guardrails stay on long enough for there to be a pediatric vaccine. Now that the FDA wants a larger size for clincial trials (reasonable) that will be delayed; late fall maybe. At that point, however, we will have had the luxury (with Iz paying the penalty) of allowing people to make their decisions. We should then let CoV-2 burn to ground/equilibrium in this country as quickly as possible. In some parts of the country it is probably already doing that.

Bottom line, you may get your wish. Although we are talking about re-implenting passive measures now, if the vaccines can't reduce the R0 of delta those guardrails may come off sooner rather than later. No masks, no shutdowns. If you aren't directly affected, you might not notice. Others will.

 

[espola]

 

[Hüsker Dü]

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“FREEDUMB! MAGA!”

 

[Ellejustus]

“FREEDUMB! MAGA!”

"CHEATER! JAIL!"

 

[Ellejustus]

View attachment 11180

The Cheater's cheat during election. The liars lie about PCR and the flu. Before they cheat & lie, the killer's kill babies after 3 months and use baby lungs, hearts and other "tissues" to make the vaccine you want us to take and lie or hide what's inside the jab. The true fact is this is NOT a vaccine. You picked the Big Three to go down to hell with. Great job Espola and Husker and all those WHO support your efforts. Cheating, lying and killing goes good with the three amigos. Enjoy company you two and EOTL. The Three Evil Dudes or TED talk!!!

 

[Ellejustus]

Go Teddy!!!

 

[Grace T.]

I think you are cognizant enough to appreciate that there is no they, ultimately, there is just us, imperfect as that might be.

I see it this way. The primary goal of the vaccines is to save lives directly, by offsetting morbidity associated with infection. A secondary goal is to save lives indirectly, by making as big a dent in community transmission as possible by reducing infection through a combination of sanitizing immunity and acquired immunity.

The data that the CDC is supposed to release tomorrow, from what I've seen of the slides floating around online, shows three main things. Nothing really unexpected but I expect a continuing public relation disaster. First, delta is very infectious. The range that's been floating around is R0 5-8. It's probably at the high end of that. The messaging will be "infectious as chickenpox". It's important to realize that maintaining sanitizing immunity levels of neutralizing antibodies (ie any infecting virus particle is simply preventing from binding its receptor) to that sort of virus is really challenging. Second, the data will show that, despite this, the vaccines still provide really good efficacy to susceptible people. Efficiencies still in the mid-upper 80%. In the real world, that's a good vaccine. The third thing is the bad news, which again is not necessarily a surprise for anyone paying attention. Given the titer of delta, vaxxed/infected people can (and the key here is whether the data is all vaxxed people vs "breakthrough infection" people) appear transmissible as non-vaxxed people. These are issues there a bio-stat person needs to look at and undoubtably are. But on that secondary criterion for a vaccine delta may simply be too much. For reasons i have outlined previously, i hope the guardrails stay on long enough for there to be a pediatric vaccine. Now that the FDA wants a larger size for clincial trials (reasonable) that will be delayed; late fall maybe. At that point, however, we will have had the luxury (with Iz paying the penalty) of allowing people to make their decisions. We should then let CoV-2 burn to ground/equilibrium in this country as quickly as possible. In some parts of the country it is probably already doing that.

Bottom line, you may get your wish. Although we are talking about re-implenting passive measures now, if the vaccines can't reduce the R0 of delta those guardrails may come off sooner rather than later. No masks, no shutdowns. If you aren't directly affected, you might not notice. Others will.

Reasoned position. I appreciate that. Where I disagree is the pediatric vaccine: a) the risk to children is negligible, b) if there is a substantial reduction in transmission protection (the cdc data may not be accounting for data out of the us and Israel showing a more substantial reduction over time though a number as low as 40% seems to have now been ruled out) vaccinating children will not have as much of a societal impact as we’d like and c) it’s yet another movement of the goalposts which started with 2 weeks and which at this point at least in Los Angeles is most directly punishing the children themselves.

The other problem is the blue areas will try the “guardrails” again (once again punishing the children first for now 2 years of their lives) before recognizing failure.

Ps there is a they…the health bureaucrats and blue politicians.

 

[Ellejustus]

Reasoned position. I appreciate that. Where I disagree is the pediatric vaccine: a) the risk to children is negligible, b) if there is a substantial reduction in transmission protection (the cdc data may not be accounting for data out of the us and Israel showing a more substantial reduction over time though a number as low as 40% seems to have now been ruled out) vaccinating children will not have as much of a societal impact as we’d like and c) it’s yet another movement of the goalposts which started with 2 weeks and which at this point at least in Los Angeles is most directly punishing the children themselves.

The other problem is the blue areas will try the “guardrails” again (once again punishing the children first for now 2 years of their lives) before recognizing failure.

Ps there is a they…the health bureaucrats and blue politicians.

I like how you write. I could see you as a really good mediator. Their so nice as they try to help the two sides find common ground or scare the shit out of one side they better take the deal or they will lose in courts or worse, the whole world. I personally struggle with BS fluff and milk toast writing and this is a lot more then we all thought. Light or Darkness Grace. Truth and Justice for all or Lying and cheating for the 1% or the very very rich families who sit above all the Nations and look down on all of us. The choice is everyone's to make. Everyone will see that God is real and is all about the second chance. No more excuses. The choice will be clear and everyone will see everyone's decision. No more hiding behind lying and cheating with a few back stapes to make it to the top. The truth is coming!!!! I've been waiting for this for over 54 years Grace. The cool thing is no more control. Freedom for all. Think for a minute what it would be like to be able to do and go anywhere you want and not worry about paying your bills because all basic life needs will be handled by all of us? If we get the assholes who cheat out, then we will ALL help each with the basic needs. Everyone left who wants to participate will do so because they want to and this place will be amazing Grace, I promise. Hold the line and buckle up because this is just getting started. God wins!!!!!

 

[Ellejustus]

 

[Bruddah IZ]

I think you are cognizant enough to appreciate that there is no they, ultimately, there is just us, imperfect as that might be.

I see it this way. The primary goal of the vaccines is to save lives directly, by offsetting morbidity associated with infection. A secondary goal is to save lives indirectly, by making as big a dent in community transmission as possible by reducing infection through a combination of sanitizing immunity and acquired immunity.

The data that the CDC is supposed to release tomorrow, from what I've seen of the slides floating around online, shows three main things. Nothing really unexpected but I expect a continuing public relation disaster. First, delta is very infectious. The range that's been floating around is R0 5-8. It's probably at the high end of that. The messaging will be "infectious as chickenpox". It's important to realize that maintaining sanitizing immunity levels of neutralizing antibodies (ie any infecting virus particle is simply preventing from binding its receptor) to that sort of virus is really challenging. Second, the data will show that, despite this, the vaccines still provide really good efficacy to susceptible people. Efficiencies still in the mid-upper 80%. In the real world, that's a good vaccine. The third thing is the bad news, which again is not necessarily a surprise for anyone paying attention. Given the titer of delta, vaxxed/infected people can (and the key here is whether the data is all vaxxed people vs "breakthrough infection" people) appear transmissible as non-vaxxed people. These are issues there a bio-stat person needs to look at and undoubtably are. But on that secondary criterion for a vaccine delta may simply be too much. For reasons i have outlined previously, i hope the guardrails stay on long enough for there to be a pediatric vaccine. Now that the FDA wants a larger size for clincial trials (reasonable) that will be delayed; late fall maybe. At that point, however, we will have had the luxury (with Iz paying the penalty) of allowing people to make their decisions. We should then let CoV-2 burn to ground/equilibrium in this country as quickly as possible. In some parts of the country it is probably already doing that.

Bottom line, you may get your wish. Although we are talking about re-implenting passive measures now, if the vaccines can't reduce the R0 of delta those guardrails may come off sooner rather than later. No masks, no shutdowns. If you aren't directly affected, you might not notice. Others will.

But what you stated above has always been the case. The difference is that we are hyping cases while the CDC numbers reflect historical trends for upper respiratory diseases in the absence of NPI's and economic shutdowns. And then there is Sweden.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

 

[Bruddah IZ]

View attachment 11190

Meanwhile, the lunatics are panicked because of this chart -- yes, this chart:


Did you realize that was the extent of what we're facing? That little bit of nothingness at the end of the chart there?

 

[Grace T.]

Disney just mandated the vaccine for any employee on site and employees that are not on site must be vaccinated before they return (which is unclear when they'll open up the office....lots of LA based companies are pushing back those dates due to concerns about rising cases and employee mask mandate concerns).

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Disney just mandated the vaccine for any employee on site and employees that are not on site must be vaccinated before they return (which is unclear when they'll open up the office....lots of LA based companies are pushing back those dates due to concerns about rising cases and employee mask mandate concerns).

See chart above

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Disney just mandated the vaccine for any employee on site and employees that are not on site must be vaccinated before they return (which is unclear when they'll open up the office....lots of LA based companies are pushing back those dates due to concerns about rising cases and employee mask mandate concerns).

Employers Can (Mostly) Require Vaccines For Workers Returning To The Office

Guidance from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says employers can legally require workers to get a COVID-19 vaccine before returning to the office. But workers can claim exceptions.

www.npr.org

 

[Grace T.]

Employers Can (Mostly) Require Vaccines For Workers Returning To The Office

Guidance from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says employers can legally require workers to get a COVID-19 vaccine before returning to the office. But workers can claim exceptions.

www.npr.org

The issue isn't whether the employer can require you to vaccinate. The situation posited is if you must work on site the employer says you must take the vaccine, or if you are remote, the employer wants people back in the office and requires them to come back vaccinated or lose their job. The issue isn't the mandate....the issue is the liability. Because the vaccine is still emergency use authorized, insurance won't cover any damages. I'm not aware of Congress or the state of California adopting a liability shield for employers (they did for the pharma company and administers) and given its EU and the employer themselves is not requiring the vaccine to be physically admined on site workers comp may not cover it. So the issue to date with employers not requiring it is that because of the EU authorization its not considered part of regular protective medical care, and by forcing employees to take it, the employer could be found liable (and not covered by insurance or workers comp) if the employee suffers any side effects for injury.

What's changed is that in the Biden news conference he signaled that the EU labels might now start getting removed for at least one vaccine in the next couple weeks (probably Pfizer since they are beasts at reg approvals) which clears the way not only for a federal mandate for its employees but also makes it easier for employers (since in many states the claims might then shift to coverage for workers comp).

BTW, when the EU label gets removed for 12-18, expect school mandates too, both public and private, for that category.

 

[espola]

The issue isn't whether the employer can require you to vaccinate. The situation posited is if you must work on site the employer says you must take the vaccine, or if you are remote, the employer wants people back in the office and requires them to come back vaccinated or lose their job. The issue isn't the mandate....the issue is the liability. Because the vaccine is still emergency use authorized, insurance won't cover any damages. I'm not aware of Congress or the state of California adopting a liability shield for employers (they did for the pharma company and administers) and given its EU and the employer themselves is not requiring the vaccine to be physically admined on site workers comp may not cover it. So the issue to date with employers not requiring it is that because of the EU authorization its not considered part of regular protective medical care, and by forcing employees to take it, the employer could be found liable (and not covered by insurance or workers comp) if the employee suffers any side effects for injury.

What's changed is that in the Biden news conference he signaled that the EU labels might now start getting removed for at least one vaccine in the next couple weeks (probably Pfizer since they are beasts at reg approvals) which clears the way not only for a federal mandate for its employees but also makes it easier for employers (since in many states the claims might then shift to coverage for workers comp).

BTW, when the EU label gets removed for 12-18, expect school mandates too, both public and private, for that category.

Does a little yellow caution light come on in your brain when you start making things up?

 

[watfly]

Breaking: LAUSD has announced it in addition to masks will require weekly testing of all students and staff, regardless of vaccination status. Since there is a delay in testing results/incubation, this will mean students will need to be quarantined in the event of exposure to a positive test, though I haven't seen the guidance yet of how long and if there's any difference in vaccinated/unvaccinated students (my guess would be no)

Nothing short of child abuse. I can't imagine the brain stain you will give these kids getting tested every week and waiting for the results. The unwarranted fear that they will instill in the children is disturbing and will have long term impacts on some kids. WTF is wrong with these idiots at LAUSD?

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Nothing short of child abuse. I can't imagine the brain stain you will give these kids getting tested every week and waiting for the results. The unwarranted fear that they will instill in the children is disturbing and will have long term impacts on some kids. WTF is wrong with these idiots at LAUSD?

We did air raid and nuclear attack drills in elementary school. The idea of imminent thermonuclear attack and that the desk above you is the last line of defense, even on young children, isn’t exactly settling . . . but we got through it.