Bad News Thread

Desert Hound said:
And the last quote from the study above said the following:

"A meta-analysis among health care workers found that compared to no masks, surgical mask and N95 respirators were not effective against transmission of viral infections or influenza-like illness based on six RCTs [28]. Using separate analysis of 23 observational studies, this meta-analysis found no protective effect of medical mask or N95 respirators against SARS virus [28]. A recent systematic review of 39 studies including 33,867 participants in community settings (self-report illness), found no difference between N95 respirators versus surgical masks and surgical mask versus no masks in the risk for developing influenza or influenza-like illness, suggesting their ineffectiveness of blocking viral transmissions in community settings [29]."

I know you want to believe....but I am not spreading falsehoods.
Click to expand...

"The author of the article, Baruch Vainshelboim, is listed as part of the cardiology division at the Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System at Stanford University. But he has no affiliation with Stanford, according to the university. Stanford School of Medicine spokeswoman Julie Greicius said in a prepared statement that Stanford supports the use of face masks to control the spread of COVID-19."

www.usatoday.com

Fact check: Study falsely claiming face masks are harmful, ineffective is not linked to Stanford

A mask study in Medical Hypotheses links its author to Stanford; the university said he isn't affiliated. Further the study pushes debunked theories.
www.usatoday.com
 
watfly said:
So what, he's correct regardless.

I love Dad4 and Espola's "yeah, but" debate tactics. It's effective because it works for everything and can go on for infinity.
Click to expand...

The USA Today article I linked debunks Professor von Numbnuts pretty thoroughly.

Here it is again ---

www.usatoday.com

Fact check: Study falsely claiming face masks are harmful, ineffective is not linked to Stanford

A mask study in Medical Hypotheses links its author to Stanford; the university said he isn't affiliated. Further the study pushes debunked theories.
www.usatoday.com
 
espola said:
The USA Today article I linked debunks Professor von Numbnuts pretty thoroughly.

Here it is again ---

www.usatoday.com

Fact check: Study falsely claiming face masks are harmful, ineffective is not linked to Stanford

A mask study in Medical Hypotheses links its author to Stanford; the university said he isn't affiliated. Further the study pushes debunked theories.
www.usatoday.com
Click to expand...

DH could have done his credibility a favor with a little research into the author --

Seeing Is Not Necessarily Believing | Amgen Biotech Experience

www.amgenbiotechexperience.com www.amgenbiotechexperience.com
 
espola said:
DH could have done his credibility a favor with a little research into the author --

Seeing Is Not Necessarily Believing | Amgen Biotech Experience

www.amgenbiotechexperience.com www.amgenbiotechexperience.com
Click to expand...

And more --

www.factcheck.org

Stories Falsely Cite 'Stanford Study' to Misinform on Face Masks - FactCheck.org

Stanford Medicine says it "strongly supports the use of face masks to control the spread of COVID-19." Yet viral stories falsely claim a "Stanford study" showed that face masks are unsafe and ineffective against COVID-19. The paper is a hypothesis, not a study, from someone with no current...
www.factcheck.org www.factcheck.org
 
espola said:
And more --

www.factcheck.org

Stories Falsely Cite 'Stanford Study' to Misinform on Face Masks - FactCheck.org

Stanford Medicine says it "strongly supports the use of face masks to control the spread of COVID-19." Yet viral stories falsely claim a "Stanford study" showed that face masks are unsafe and ineffective against COVID-19. The paper is a hypothesis, not a study, from someone with no current...
www.factcheck.org www.factcheck.org
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And now something about the Journal Medical Hypotheses in which von Numbnuts published his work ==

"A previous editor wrote in 2008: “The journal’s official stance is that more harm is done by a failure to publish one idea that might have been true, than by publishing a dozen ideas that turn out to be false.”

This suggests that theories in the journal should, at the very least, be taken with a pinch of salt.

Claims that the journal is peer-reviewed are misleading.

Peer review is a form of quality control whereby independent experts assess the methods, results and conclusions made by a forthcoming scientific paper, prior to publication.

In an interview in 2010, the current editor of Medical Hypotheses said that the journal would not use “classical peer review”. "

fullfact.org

Error-strewn paper claims face masks are ineffective and harmful - Full Fact

The ‘peer-reviewed paper from Stanford’ is not from Stanford and may not have been conventionally peer-reviewed.
fullfact.org fullfact.org
 
espola said:
And now something about the Journal Medical Hypotheses in which von Numbnuts published his work ==

"A previous editor wrote in 2008: “The journal’s official stance is that more harm is done by a failure to publish one idea that might have been true, than by publishing a dozen ideas that turn out to be false.”

This suggests that theories in the journal should, at the very least, be taken with a pinch of salt.

Claims that the journal is peer-reviewed are misleading.

Peer review is a form of quality control whereby independent experts assess the methods, results and conclusions made by a forthcoming scientific paper, prior to publication.

In an interview in 2010, the current editor of Medical Hypotheses said that the journal would not use “classical peer review”. "

fullfact.org

Error-strewn paper claims face masks are ineffective and harmful - Full Fact

The ‘peer-reviewed paper from Stanford’ is not from Stanford and may not have been conventionally peer-reviewed.
fullfact.org fullfact.org
Click to expand...


And finally --

"FALSE"

The paper was published by an exercise physiologist with no academic connection to Stanford University or the NIH in a journal that accepts "radical, speculative and non-mainstream scientific ideas."

www.snopes.com

Did a 'Stanford/NIH' Study Conclude Masks Don't Work?

Really depends on how you define these words: Stanford, NIH, Study, Conclude, Mask, and Work.
www.snopes.com www.snopes.com

“it’s a list of generally discredited hypotheses that have been tested and disproved. … it isn’t science.”
 
I got told twice today by some so called friends of mine to do the right thing. I asked, "and what is the right thing to do?" They said, "get the dam shot and STFU so we can get back to Normal. BG says we should be back to Mr and Mrs Normal family by end of 2022 as long as everyone obeys and get injected twice and every year thereafter. Just like all the other flu shots. That means we have 18 more months of this hate filled life that is filled with fear. Do the right thing and get the shots they say.
 
crush said:
I got told twice today by some so called friends of mine to do the right thing. I asked, "and what is the right thing to do?" They said, "get the dam shot and STFU so we can get back to Normal. BG says we should be back to Mr and Mrs Normal family by end of 2022 as long as everyone obeys and get injected twice and every year thereafter. Just like all the other flu shots. That means we have 18 more months of this hate filled life that is filled with fear. Do the right thing and get the shots they say.
Click to expand...
It's where we are now as a country, Crush. Generally, we can't even have civil political debates as a society. It's sad. Oddly enough, the ones we have here (minus the troll and his multiple aliases) are quite civil. I strongly believe in getting the vaccine, but not so much that I want to force anyone to do so. I believe that is counterproductive in the long run and further divides us as a nation. It's more important for me to listen and attempt to understand opposing viewpoints than to convince others that my thoughts are superior. To me, the type of power needed to force others to get a vaccine against their will is worse than the disease. I'm not saying that there isn't a disease or situation where I wouldn't consider it, but it's not this one.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
It's where we are now as a country, Crush. Generally, we can't even have civil political debates as a society. It's sad. Oddly enough, the ones we have here (minus the troll and his multiple aliases) are quite civil. I strongly believe in getting the vaccine, but not so much that I want to force anyone to do so. I believe that is counterproductive in the long run and further divides us as a nation. It's more important for me to listen and attempt to understand opposing viewpoints than to convince others that my thoughts are superior. To me, the type of power needed to force others to get a vaccine against their will is worse than the disease. I'm not saying that there isn't a disease or situation where I wouldn't consider it, but it's not this one.
Click to expand...
I super appreciate you kicking and screaming. I feel your support, I truly do. We will all find out soon what's truly happening. My out-laws have a different attitude. They think my wife and I are being selfish and holding up the normal life we were all promised. Check this out. One of my wife's relatives has a boyfriend now who is also a big time teacher. I just met this dude Sunday. First impression: Super over weight and has heart issues from eating fast food all the time and looks horrible physically. This guy lectured me for over 30 minutes on why I need the shot and how proud he is for getting his shots. I told him the best thing to do is to be healthy and stop eating red meat, fast food and all the poison in the foods. Dude walked away from me and told me, "You will need to get the shot if you want to travel." He said it with a smirk so we shall see. This is going to be way more intense then being yelled at from a Starbucks Batista for wearing my mask below my nose. Just wait bro. I hope when they drag me off to the nut farm you will stand up and defend my rights. Will you take a bullet for me so I dont have to take the shots?
 
kickingandscreaming said:
It's where we are now as a country, Crush. Generally, we can't even have civil political debates as a society. It's sad. Oddly enough, the ones we have here (minus the troll and his multiple aliases) are quite civil. I strongly believe in getting the vaccine, but not so much that I want to force anyone to do so. I believe that is counterproductive in the long run and further divides us as a nation. It's more important for me to listen and attempt to understand opposing viewpoints than to convince others that my thoughts are superior. To me, the type of power needed to force others to get a vaccine against their will is worse than the disease. I'm not saying that there isn't a disease or situation where I wouldn't consider it, but it's not this one.
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As usual, I agree with you 100%.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but to me this is a symptom of the growing culture of being more concerned with other people's behaviors instead of your own. This mentality impacts all facets of our lives these days, and in particular, the Covid response. Your odds of contracting Covid were overwhelming based upon your own behavior and not the behavior of others. I was raised differently, so I just don't understand the mentality of people telling others what is best for their life and family. I understand and support having an opinion, but taking away someone's legal choices because you think you know what's better for me is antithetical to our Country's well founded philosophies. There is "more that one way to skin a cat", yet some powers to be (arguably the elitists, academics so-called intellectuals and/or the self professed experts) believe that they know the right way for everyone. Purely for illustration purposes...Dad4 and I took dramatically different approaches to the pandemic, yet we both reached the same result. He took the "overcautious" approach, and I took what I believed to be the "balanced" approach. We were both happy with our CHOICES and that's how it should be.

One of the interesting ironies of the being more concerned for others behavior, as opposed to you own, is that it leads to a lack of accountability for the individual and promotes a victim mentality. It also leads to this inability to have civil debates.

Compliance through fear is never going to work on the majority of Americans, but that is the exact methodology the was used by most of our "leadership". Let's look back on some of the things we were told about the virus. You remember when we were told we needed to sanitize our groceries and the boxes we received in the mail? This is my personal favorite, we were told by an "expert" at Scripps that sea breezes could carry the virus long distances:
www.sandiegouniontribune.com

UC San Diego virus expert pleads with surfers to stay out of the ocean to avoid coronavirus

Kim Prather — a UC San Diego atmospheric scientist who studies how viruses and bacteria are ejected from the ocean — pleaded with surfers on Monday to stay out of the water to minimize …
www.sandiegouniontribune.com www.sandiegouniontribune.com
That may be the worst recommendation ever among hundreds of bad predictions and recommendations. The beach is actually where we should all of been exercising, getting fresh air and Vitamin D. Instead they closed beaches. Simply issuing "Stay at Home" orders was the worst approach ever.
 
watfly said:
This is my personal favorite, we were told by an "expert" at Scripps that sea breezes could carry the virus long distances:
www.sandiegouniontribune.com

UC San Diego virus expert pleads with surfers to stay out of the ocean to avoid coronavirus

Kim Prather — a UC San Diego atmospheric scientist who studies how viruses and bacteria are ejected from the ocean — pleaded with surfers on Monday to stay out of the water to minimize …
www.sandiegouniontribune.com www.sandiegouniontribune.com
That may be the worst recommendation ever among hundreds of bad predictions and recommendations. The beach is actually where we should all of been exercising, getting fresh air and Vitamin D. Instead they closed beaches. Simply issuing "Stay at Home" orders was the worst approach ever.
Click to expand...

It's an illness. They don't even realize it. In her defense, she may really believe she is contributing to the good of humanity. Her job is secure, she doesn't have any skin in the game.
 
happy9 said:
It's an illness. They don't even realize it. In her defense, she may really believe she is contributing to the good of humanity. Her job is secure, she doesn't have any skin in the game.
Click to expand...
We're all screwed for the next pandemic. The "crying wolf" by experts, politicians and the media will make compliance, even to good faith restrictions, relatively low.

The virus in most situations was not highly contagious and very rarely fatal, except for the most compromised. The most dangerous thing about this virus was its unpredictability.
 
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