Had we removed all restrictions in May, 2020, how many additional deaths would have resulted?
Or is that not your problem? (Hope you don't look like your avatar. That avatar is in a high risk group. )
Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
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Or is that not your problem? (Hope you don't look like your avatar. That avatar is in a high risk group. )
Not even Sweden removed ALL restrictions. It also doesn't prohibit us from using restrictions smartly (when they are needed to reduce case loads so the hospital systems don't collapse). Again, the assumption that an average unmarried, living alone 20 year old is going to go a year plus without hooking up is just an absurd ask on it's face of it.
But at least now you are looking at the margin benefits. The question isn't could we have stopped 1/2 million deaths....short of Australian style lockdowns (which would have smashed both D and R sacred cows, and the US Constitution), we couldn't. The question is what portion of those deaths are being averted by a particular policy. You then have to compare it to the deaths and other costs created by the applicable NPI.
With masks, you seem to think no cost (or very little cost) for a huge benefit. For indoor dining, you don't seem to put much weight on the impact on business owners, but also see a huge benefit. Where people are challenging you on is what weight you give both the costs and the benefits in light of the real world results which have taken place.
Here we go again.
www.cnn.com
CDC director warns of 'impending doom' as Covid-19 cases spike in most states
Much of America's recent progress against Covid-19 has been erased as new infections jump nationwide.
www.cnn.com
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I have no clue about bars/restaurants there, (but it sounds like you do,) we were just talking about the day to day. She is beyond the bar hopping days, (ah, youth!) and for restaurants she does take out or sits outside. Again, just one take from one individual. Wearing a mask doesn't bother me personally, (or her,) so until I'm vaccinated i'll mask up if I'm indoors and it seems stuffy.
It’s ALWAYS coming for us....Here we go again.
CDC director warns of 'impending doom' as Covid-19 cases spike in most states
Much of America's recent progress against Covid-19 has been erased as new infections jump nationwide.
Desert Hound
DA
Well remember over the past yr @dad4 has always blamed the slightest opening of bars/restaurants as the reason we see spikes.
So logically I wonder why he is silent now.
Further just a few days ago he blamed a state opening up their bars with a rise and when I asked him why other states who have done the same but seen no rise he is silent on.
If as he claims certain things are obvious, why can't he point to successes?
He was unhappy TX opened up, implying that would lead to rising cases. And yet we see the opposite. At some point shouldn't his and others theories match up with real world data?
If you theories don't match up with actual data, you need to re evaluate. @dad4 has failed to do so.. and rather consistently.
CDC ran the numbers. The data matches up extremely well: p<0.01, highly significant.
It remains a stupid idea to take off your mask and sit in a room full of other people eating and talking. Go figure.
Don’t blame me if you don’t like the results. Take it up with the CDC.
And, if you think you have some really clever data analysis argument that proves CDC wrong, submit it to an epidemiology journal and tell us when you get published.
Hüsker Dü
DA
They are following the science and the government directives. Who do you think told them about social distancing, masks and other precautions in the first place? They didn’t build that by themselves.
You mean like when they told us there would be a huge winter surge with hundreds of thousands of deaths?
Oh, wait. That one happened.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Doesn't matter. Deaths aren't driving the cowardly hysteria and fraud behind public policy. And they were never going to drive public policy. It had to be cases using the murderously inadequate PCR test.
Nature has been doing gain-of-function virome since its origin. And so we
shouldn't be afraid of gain-of-function. No, that's what viruses are. They are all
there to increase the adaptability and biodiversity on the planet and we happen
to be able to be adapted by that. And so what I'm describing here is that we
have 12,800 new genetic updates since 1976, in the last 40 years, and some of
those we've taken up and others we've rejected from the human DNA.
And so when we say yes, there was a pandemic, then we can ask the clinical
things around what pattern did it occur? Did we have excess death this year or
not? And the short answer to that is if you look over a seven-year trend the year
before we had this narrative of a pandemic, we had the lowest respiratory
mortality than we had in seven years. And so there was a pent up population
that didn't die last year. That's going to die of respiratory causes the following
year. The CDC, NIH, WHO knew that data. We didn't because they publish their
data two years behind typically. And so we didn't see that until retrospective
now, but we know the powers that be, that are watching these numbers must
have known that we had a low respiratory death rate that year.
And so we could have predicted that we would have an increased respiratory
mortality in 2019, 2020 in the northern hemisphere. And then later in 2020 and
into 2020 in the southern hemisphere, we would have this increased respiratory
mortality. And so it's interesting that, that's all unfolding now and we're blaming
coronavirus when, in fact, we could have pegged it on any respiratory virus
cause it was going to happen. We were going to have a catch-up year. --Zach Bush M.D.
Bruddah IZ
DA
The reason mask manufacturers have a disclaimer, about mitigating contraction of infectious diseases, on mask packaging is that OSHA rules state that they must. OSHA has not rated mask to stop virus's. Mask mandates are a willful OSHA violation punishable by fine, jail, and job termination if the mandate caused injury or illnesses. Go figure. The government disobeying their own rules... AGAIN.
Almost like a virus doesn’t care.....like water, it will find the cracks and make its way in.
Do you think they would have followed the science and recommendations without the Nanny state telling them what to do? Most people I know, even those who dislike masking and the politics of government fear porn, understand the science and were wearing masks even before mask mandates.
Many act as if the crazy Karens and Franks represent society as a whole. That's like saying Antifa represents every progressive liberal in the pacific NW.
Since the government of AZ removed the mask mandates, most businesses haven't. Most people still wear them. How long will that last? I don't know but doesn't seem like removing the mask mandate has made everyone go commando - sans masks. Fear porn is everywhere - it's an effective control mechanism.
If the pool repair guy tries that line, fire him and hire someone competent.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
This is what I don't understand. I suppose there is a group of people that can't figure it out for themselves.
Like someone who thinks numbers will tell us how to stop a virus? How has that worked for Influenza A, B or any other once novel virus (ie H1N1)?
Have the so-called Dad of 4 read this sad end to a life.
Huntington Beach family blames coronavirus pandemic after son, 19, killed himself
