Academy vs. ECNL

[soccerobserver]

I think I might tweak that a bit - if you can play at Princeton or Stanford, you play at Stanford. Brown or UCLA? Penn or Cal? There are plenty of top D1 schools that give you a great education as well. Michigan, UVA, UNC, Duke, Cal, UCLA, Stanford are all fine by me lol.

Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.

 

[NoGoal]

Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.

There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford. I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School. My guess is Ivies don't get as many YNT players, so the Ivy head coaches can get exceptions approved. While Stanford is practically all YNT players, so less opportunities for exceptions being made.

 

[Glen]

To back track, Pac12 and Big10 athletic ships are now guaranteed for 4 yrs. Where as mid-majors are not, so if any player committs to OSU for example. It's not a poor choice compared to non guaranteed ships at Cal State Schools such as SDSU, SLO and LB State. Saving grace at Cal State schools is the tuition is very affordable at $6,500 per year.

The distinction between those conferences providing some level of scholarship guarantee is very informative.

I am saying something a little different regarding costs. A kid going to a Cal State school with no scholarship - maybe doesn't even play soccer (so scholarship guarantees don't become relevant) - is better off for So Cal job prospects and probably paying less than a kid from So Cal going to OSU and getting a 50% scholarship. So the family/kid is really just paying an extra sports fee so their kid can play soccer at OSU. People are free to do what they want with their money, but it is amusing to me at some level. I also say this with a backdrop that I agree that there is no real career right now for girls to pursue professional soccer. So to me the most important thing is getting the girl to a place that will provide her the most opportunities after college. If you go to Stanford and some others, you can have the best both worlds. But after that, I think we should guide them to prioritize the better school over the better soccer program.

And obviously there are a lot of different circumstances that could make OSU a good choice (maybe the kid gets a full ride or the kid has family in Ohio). I'm talking about the typical girl who gets around 50%. I checked the numbers to make sure I wasn't totally crazy. Tuition is $10K in state and $27K out of state at OSU or $13.5K for an out of state student with a 50% scholarship. Tuition is $6,500 at LB State for in state students.

 

[NoGoal]

The distinction between those conferences providing some level of scholarship guarantee is very informative.

I am saying something a little different regarding costs. A kid going to a Cal State school with no scholarship - maybe doesn't even play soccer (so scholarship guarantees don't become relevant) - is better off for So Cal job prospects and probably paying less than a kid from So Cal going to OSU and getting a 50% scholarship. So the family/kid is really just paying an extra sports fee so their kid can play soccer at OSU. People are free to do what they want with their money, but it is amusing to me at some level. I also say this with a backdrop that I agree that there is no real career right now for girls to pursue professional soccer. So to me the most important thing is getting the girl to a place that will provide her the most opportunities after college. If you go to Stanford and some others, you can have the best both worlds. But after that, I think we should guide them to prioritize the better school over the better soccer program.

And obviously there are a lot of different circumstances that could make OSU a good choice (maybe the kid gets a full ride or the kid has family in Ohio). I'm talking about the typical girl who gets around 50%. I checked the numbers to make sure I wasn't totally crazy. Tuition is $10K in state and $27K out of state at OSU or $13.5K for an out of state student with a 50% scholarship. Tuition is $6,500 at LB State for in state students.

Glen, preaching to the choir. I agree with you 100%, education is first and foremost for womens soccer. IMO, as long as any of our DDs receives their undergrad degree. That's all that counts.

Don't forget if a student get's 50% at OSU it could include housing and books. So 27K + 10K for housing and 1K for books at 50% is 19K per year. My son goes to LB State and his tuition is 6.5K plus 10K for rent and food, and 1K for books. So about the same at 17.5K a year.

 

[NoGoal]

Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.

Surprisingly Stanford has a lot of undeclared majors on the womens soccer team, but the few that have declared are majoring in Biology, Computer Science and Engineering along with a couple of Psychology majors.

http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

 

[soccer661]

I believe at Stanford -- one doesn't declare a major until their junior year.

 

[Zerodenero]

There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford. I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School. My guess is Ivies don't get as many YNT players, so the Ivy head coaches can get exceptions approved. While Stanford is practically all YNT players, so less opportunities for exceptions being made.

NG- It's probably painful for your haters to read this.....but you're 100% accurate on this (again)

 

[soccermanifesto]

There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford. I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School.

I find this incredibly fishy.

The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year. The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.

Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.

They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.

Incredible school, great team though.

 

[espola]

I find this incredibly fishy.

The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year. The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.

Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.

They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.

Incredible school, great team though.

In my conversations with college coaches (admittedly years ago) they stated that if they were interested in a player, and that player met the school's established minimums for admission, the coach could get him in. At the time of concern, my son's GPA and test scores met the minimums for UC, but were not competitive at Davis, which is to say that without soccer, he wouldn't have gotten in there (in fact my daughter, with much better scores, was waitlisted at Davis before she got in). We found out later that the coach had even more power than that - he could get some quantity of players he wanted in who had scores below the minimum, perhaps because the player fit one of the alternate entry doors, like diversity, legacy, or parental employment.

 

[NoGoal]

I find this incredibly fishy.

The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year. The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.

Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.

They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.

Incredible school, great team though.

You may find if fishy, but the one I know is absolutely true!

Stanford was recruiting a former teammate of my DDs and I know for a fact Stanford's minimum GPA requirement is 3.50 without test scores. Another buddy I know DD's was also being recruited by Stanford and he told me the same. Every player is different, let's say hypothetically a player has the minimum 3.50 GPA, but still hasn't scored the minimum on the SAT/ACT for Stanford's admissions approval. The player keeps taking the test to meet the min. requirement until the admissions deadline. Waiting pins and needles hoping the last test score meets minimum admissions requirement, only to be disappointed that it didn't. Player now has to scramble to find a new university. Let's not forget the top players verbally commit as HS sophomores and my guess is 95% of the verbal commits haven't taken the SAT/ACT yet.

YNT players are a dime a dozen at Stanford. I highly doubt the head coach can get exceptions for below admissions requirements with the reason, she is a YNT player.

For the record, L.R. vebally committed to Stanford first. My question is why would another GK even consider verbally committing to Stanford, if they already had a verbally committed GK the same class year? Especially the same GK the player competed against and lost to as a YNT pool player.

 

[soccerobserver]

I find this incredibly fishy.

The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year. The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.

Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.

They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.

Incredible school, great team though.

SManfesto that seems perhaps a bit overly cynical? What you described also sounds like the GK who was not "admitted" in the end had scores or grades that did not make the minimums...even today some are re-taking the ACT to get their scores up...the "offer" is not a guarantee...the HC at Yale and HVD were competing for a player who had not yet made the minimum SAT/ACT score and she kept taking it and retaking it...so her "offers" were conditional and she knew ahead of time that she was not quite "there" for those schools...I never found out what became of her but nothing would have been a suprise...

 

[soccermanifesto]

But no one is addressing the central question, why did Stanford go after, make financial promises to, and get verbal commits from two YNT GKs from the same year?

And why when they are stacked at a position, do they send feelers out to YNT players committed elsewhere?

I wouldn't care if they were doing this with adult players, but Stanford's gonna Stanford I guess. This system works for them and assures them getting the best players and being a perennial contender and powerhouse. But some girls get crushed in the process and are left scrambling . And that sucks.

 

[Striker17]

Great thread thanks for all the information!
I think another disservice are parents who are not realistic about their children's academic abilities. Take some CAL committs- know first hand about three of those CAL committs are doing very poorly in school, dislike school. I only wonder as a parent how that will translate in a rigorous academic environment? If the goal is just like on the boys football etc side to get exposure and then get out and play professionally fine but I wonder.
Not judging I just feel we Are learning a lot from those like you guys who came before us. Thanks for sharing all the realistic things that are happening.
Another thing I have heard is that it's WORK. It's a JOB. One of my friends daughter just quit- hung up the cletes. Said to her dad that with social media she can see all her friends having fun,etc and she was"over it".
I appreciate the parents who share the good bad and ugly so we can approach options realistically.

 

[Striker17]

Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.

I have heard the same as well. There is a very big difference between being a Stanford soccer player and a Princeton one and what that translates to academically.

 

[NoGoal]

But no one is addressing the central question, why did Stanford go after, make financial promises to, and get verbal commits from two YNT GKs from the same year?

And why when they are stacked at a position, do they send feelers out to YNT players committed elsewhere?

I wouldn't care if they were doing this with adult players, but Stanford's gonna Stanford I guess. This system works for them and assures them getting the best players and being a perennial contender and powerhouse. But some girls get crushed in the process and are left scrambling . And that sucks.

I agree it does suck, but they didn't force any of the players to commit.

 

[NoGoal]

Great thread thanks for all the information!
I think another disservice are parents who are not realistic about their children's academic abilities. Take some CAL committs- know first hand about three of those CAL committs are doing very poorly in school, dislike school. I only wonder as a parent how that will translate in a rigorous academic environment? If the goal is just like on the boys football etc side to get exposure and then get out and play professionally fine but I wonder.
Not judging I just feel we Are learning a lot from those like you guys who came before us. Thanks for sharing all the realistic things that are happening.
Another thing I have heard is that it's WORK. It's a JOB. One of my friends daughter just quit- hung up the cletes. Said to her dad that with social media she can see all her friends having fun,etc and she was"over it".
I appreciate the parents who share the good bad and ugly so we can approach options realistically.

I agree, a player trying to select a university that balances both their playing ability and academic ability is difficult. Unfortunately, when committing the player puts less weight on their academic ability. A 3.50 GPA student at CAL or Stanford is like a CSL Silver level player playing on a YNT team.

 

[Zerodenero]

I agree, a player trying to select a university that balances both their playing ability and academic ability is difficult. Unfortunately, when committing the player doesn't weigh their academic ability. A 3.50 GPA student at CAL or Stanford is like a CSL Silver level player playing on a YNT team.

I call it the "Fit Factor".

 

[Zerodenero]

I have heard the same as well. There is a very big difference between being a Stanford soccer player and a Princeton one and what that translates to academically.

So....soccer player difference between the 2, totally follow ya. But the academic comment doesn't compute. ??

 

[NoGoal]

I believe at Stanford -- one doesn't declare a major until their junior year.

Interesting if this is the case. I wonder if Stanford has a different policy in place that guarantees undeclared students the major elected as Juniors. Usually, an undeclared admitted student takes only GE classes. If they do poorly in their GE classes, they can be denied admittance into an impacted program like pre-med, computer science or engineering and are left majoring in philosophy instead.

IMO, it's always best and safer to be admitted with a declared major vs undeclared. This way the student is accepted into their specific program vs having to apply for it later.

 

[SOCCERMINION]

So....soccer player difference between the 2, totally follow ya. But the academic comment doesn't compute. ??

My DD gets accepted or partial to go to great school like Stanford, Game over she wins, reguardless of soccer.