5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

watfly said:
Vouch for the fact that there are genuine transgenders that are not influenced by adults, outside factors or that it's just a phase.
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From the ultimate source - the internet: A transgender person is someone whose gender identity differs from that typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth.

I believe it is a fact that people believe they are transgender. The determination is wholly internal to the individual. Neither one of us can prove or disprove the effect of outside factors. I'd argue there are always outside factors that push in both directions. We don't know if it's a phase until it goes on for a significant period, and I am sure there are people who have believed they have been transgender for many years.
 
socalkdg said:
From what I read from neutral sites, Banda is legally a women, didn't have any type of meds or surgery, but has a much higher level of Testosterone. The level was legal for the Olympics, but not CAF limits. Everyone has levels of Testosterone. Women usually between 15 and 70, men between 300 and 1000.
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All true. She is legally a woman, and has naturally high testosterone levels due to her natural Y chromosome.

If she were XX, she'd have had a verified cheek swab test done years ago, just to make everyone shut up about it.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
From the ultimate source - the internet: A transgender person is someone whose gender identity differs from that typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth.

I believe it is a fact that people believe they are transgender. The determination is wholly internal to the individual. Neither one of us can prove or disprove the effect of outside factors. I'd argue there are always outside factors that push in both directions. We don't know if it's a phase until it goes on for a significant period, and I am sure there are people who have believed they have been transgender for many years.
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We all have different life experiences. Based on my experience I know this isnt entirely true. Maybe some day you will meet a transgender that will dispel your theory, or maybe not. People used to say a similar thing about gays.

All that having been said, "a person born in the wrong body" for lack of a better term, is incredibly rare and should be treated as such. Transitioning should be the remedy of last resort after everything else has been tried. Instead of the default treatment for anyone that is questioning their gender, which seems like is happening in some cases. Im certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that an appropriate period of social transitioning should occur before medical transition.
 
watfly said:
We all have different life experiences. Based on my experience I know this isnt entirely true. Maybe some day you will meet a transgender that will dispel your theory, or maybe not. People used to say a similar thing about gays.

All that having been said, "a person born in the wrong body" for lack of a better term, is incredibly rare and should be treated as such. Transitioning should be the remedy of last resort after everything else has been tried. Instead of the default treatment for anyone that is questioning their gender, which seems like is happening in some cases. Im certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that an appropriate period of social transitioning should occur before medical transition.
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This used to be the requirement. As I wrote above it changed circa 2010-12 when the board overseeing the standards of care got captured by progressives. They implemented numerous reforms including removing many guardrails and it marked a shift in the cw over ideas like gender is binary, nonbinary and gender fluid, medical id v self id (including those fka transvestites), transition should be rare, and youth transitions should be restricted.
 
watfly said:
We all have different life experiences. Based on my experience I know this isnt entirely true. Maybe some day you will meet a transgender that will dispel your theory, or maybe not. People used to say a similar thing about gays.

All that having been said, "a person born in the wrong body" for lack of a better term, is incredibly rare and should be treated as such. Transitioning should be the remedy of last resort after everything else has been tried. Instead of the default treatment for anyone that is questioning their gender, which seems like is happening in some cases. Im certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that an appropriate period of social transitioning should occur before medical transition.
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My “theory” is that way too many children that, at one time, identify as “trans”, later decide otherwise. So, any chemical or surgical transitioning of children should be illegal. These are irreversible procedures that should not be performed on minors. That’s why I say there are no “trans” kids. If they still feel that way at 18, the decision is theirs.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
My “theory” is that way too many children that, at one time, identify as “trans”, later decide otherwise. So, any chemical or surgical transitioning of children should be illegal. These are irreversible procedures that should not be performed on minors. That’s why I say there are no “trans” kids. If they still feel that way at 18, the decision is theirs.
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Way too many? Can you name three?

I agree with you on the age restrictions, and I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there, k&s.

 
espola said:
Way too many? Can you name three?

I agree with you on the age restrictions, and I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there, k&s.

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apnews.com

How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

Lawmakers often cite concerns about young people regretting irreversible body-altering transgender medical treatment, but studies suggest regret is uncommon.
apnews.com apnews.com

This AP article cites a study saying "..Dutch research from several years ago found no evidence of regret in transgender adults who had comprehensive psychological evaluations in childhood before undergoing puberty blockers and hormone treatment."

So, there may not be 3 examples of any humans ever who have ever ever regretted ever transing. Doesn't happen according to research, aka, science, which I trust. I trust science.
 
espola said:
Way too many? Can you name three?

I agree with you on the age restrictions, and I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there, k&s.

Click to expand...

Three? Try google. I’m sure you can find news articles and youtube videos from a at least three ex trans people who are raising this issue.

The problem for the researcher is selection bias. A person feeling regret is less likely to keep in touch with the clinic. And the clinic itself may well underreport the regret stories they do hear. So, if someone is feeling regret, how do you find them?

Unfortunately, publishing data that casts doubt on gender ideology is something of a career killer. Good luck getting a university post if the progressives have decided you’re a transphobe. So you have a huge bias just in who is willing to attempt the research.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
My “theory” is that way too many children that, at one time, identify as “trans”, later decide otherwise. So, any chemical or surgical transitioning of children should be illegal. These are irreversible procedures that should not be performed on minors. That’s why I say there are no “trans” kids. If they still feel that way at 18, the decision is theirs.
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I can appreciate your sentiment, but in very rare cases a better outcome is achieved if the transition is done pre-puberty. Maybe surgery could be banned until an adult, but hormone treatment prior allowed. Of couse not without the consent of both parents and I would argue a diverse and qualified medical committee.

One of my sons best friends is transgender FtoM. As soon as he could talk (delayed due to being deaf until he got cochlear implants) he kept saying he was a boy, not a girl, and fought everything girl like clothes and hair. At 5 he said when his family dies he will cutoff his hair so he can be a boy. The family was far from woke or progressive. Years of major family struggles with counseling and consultation with experts. He socially transitioned as the first step before anything medical. He's 17 today and you'd never guess he was born a girl. People would freak if they saw him try to us a womens bathroom, thinking he is some creeper boy.

Not all transgenders are what you see on TV. So until we walk in someone else's shoes, we probably shouldn't tell others how to raise their kids.
 
Noticer said:
apnews.com

How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

Lawmakers often cite concerns about young people regretting irreversible body-altering transgender medical treatment, but studies suggest regret is uncommon.
apnews.com apnews.com

This AP article cites a study saying "..Dutch research from several years ago found no evidence of regret in transgender adults who had comprehensive psychological evaluations in childhood before undergoing puberty blockers and hormone treatment."

So, there may not be 3 examples of any humans ever who have ever ever regretted ever transing. Doesn't happen according to research, aka, science, which I trust. I trust science.
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"Several years ago" doctors were capable of determining the gender of a baby as it was sliding into home place from mom's dugout. Libtards, for some odd reason, just decided a decade of education (in anatomy) is no longer sufficient to do that. Fucking morons.

Suddenly we need hundreds of alphabet mafia options and made up words to recognize the attention whores of humanity.
 
dad4 said:
Three? Try google. I’m sure you can find news articles and youtube videos from a at least three ex trans people who are raising this issue.

The problem for the researcher is selection bias. A person feeling regret is less likely to keep in touch with the clinic. And the clinic itself may well underreport the regret stories they do hear. So, if someone is feeling regret, how do you find them?

Unfortunately, publishing data that casts doubt on gender ideology is something of a career killer. Good luck getting a university post if the progressives have decided you’re a transphobe. So you have a huge bias just in who is willing to attempt the research.
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"Try google. I'm sure..." is not a very strong response.
 
watfly said:
I can appreciate your sentiment, but in very rare cases a better outcome is achieved if the transition is done pre-puberty. Maybe surgery could be banned until an adult, but hormone treatment prior allowed. Of couse not without the consent of both parents and I would argue a diverse and qualified medical committee.

One of my sons best friends is transgender FtoM. As soon as he could talk (delayed due to being deaf until he got cochlear implants) he kept saying he was a boy, not a girl, and fought everything girl like clothes and hair. At 5 he said when his family dies he will cutoff his hair so he can be a boy. The family was far from woke or progressive. Years of major family struggles with counseling and consultation with experts. He socially transitioned as the first step before anything medical. He's 17 today and you'd never guess he was born a girl. People would freak if they saw him try to us a womens bathroom, thinking he is some creeper boy.

Not all transgenders are what you see on TV. So until we walk in someone else's shoes, we probably shouldn't tell others how to raise their kids.
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I have little doubt there are relatively rare cases such as this. Unfortunately, with programs that are "limited" and "targeted" such as The Homeland Security Act, overreach (for lack of a better word) occurs when power meets a lack of transparency. It's the closest thing to a law of physics that there is in psychology. It's worth noting that the recent surge in transitioning corresponds to increase in mental health problems - both children and adults. Mix in early childhood education's new and disturbing fixation on gender and sexuality along with re-enforcing approaches to problems that do not build resiliency, and here we are.

I Thought I was Saving Trans Kids. Now I'm Blowing the Whistle
www.thefp.com

I Thought I Was Saving Trans Kids. Now I’m Blowing the Whistle.

There are more than 100 pediatric gender clinics across the U.S. I worked at one. What’s happening to children is morally and medically appalling.
www.thefp.com www.thefp.com

Chloe Cole's Testimony
nypost.com

Detransitioner Chloe Cole’s full testimony to Congress is a ‘final warning’ to stop gender surgery

On Thursday, her 19th birthday, Chloe Cole testified to Congress with a “final warning” that medical treatments to change the gender of confused children is horrific.
nypost.com nypost.com

Large study of detransitioners (I assume "large" means something >= 3)
segm.org

Detransition: a Real and Growing Phenomenon

Over the last few years, a growing community of detransitioners has formed online. Despite the visibility recently given to the topic in mainstream media, including a recent 60 Minutes episode featuring detransitioners and their stories, detransition is still a poorly understood phenomenon. A...
segm.org segm.org

Why The Media Attacks Detransitioners
www.public.news

Why The Media Attacks Detransitioners

Regret among survivors of gender ideology is rising not declining
www.public.news www.public.news

I Was Fired After Blowing the Whistle
www.thefp.com

‘I Was Fired After Blowing the Whistle’

Tamara Pietzke exposed the dangers of ‘gender-affirming care’ for minors. Then, she lost her job. She reveals the cost of speaking out—and why she has no regrets.
www.thefp.com www.thefp.com
 
dad4 said:
Three? Try google. I’m sure you can find news articles and youtube videos from a at least three ex trans people who are raising this issue.

The problem for the researcher is selection bias. A person feeling regret is less likely to keep in touch with the clinic. And the clinic itself may well underreport the regret stories they do hear. So, if someone is feeling regret, how do you find them?

Unfortunately, publishing data that casts doubt on gender ideology is something of a career killer. Good luck getting a university post if the progressives have decided you’re a transphobe. So you have a huge bias just in who is willing to attempt the research.
Click to expand...
I think dad4 has some great valid points. This is well reasoned. Additionally, people are unlikely to say, after having invested so much financially, emotionally and physically, that they regret their decision. So, I think the surveys saying rarely do transitioners regret (particularly the young for which regret numbers are very low) need to be taken with a huge grain of salt. For the youngers, there will be those that get caught up that might have other issues (social contagion, they are gay, life phases, etc.). For adults, there's the issue of separating the gender dysphoric from the fetishers (the last category is particularly problematic since if they have neurological conditions such as OCD or ADHD they might try to push the fantasy to the maximum and then it's too late to change course). But I think watfly is correct and there are a bunch of people for which there's just something else wrong....what you would call the true gender dysphoric....and there is no cure for this....there's no pill, no amount of therapy will fix it, sticking them in a fetish dungeon won't do anything, there's no cure.

Sometimes in life there are no good solutions. If you ban youth transitions, for example, there will be a portion of the population for whom this does substantial harm...the columnist Brianna Wu is such an instance. If you don't, there will be a portion of the population who will regret the decision and will be substantially harmed. The only thing you all have shown is that there are people in both categories and that this isn't an easy decision and someone is going to wind up hurt either way, even if we were to beef up guardrails
 
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