Thank you for making my point for me.
5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season
- Thread starter Veritas
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Other way around, moron.
It's
Bro, I feel your 
100%. As parents we need to come together and make sure the biological female only league is protected. I was testing what side you're on.I believe in some cases (likely rare) that pre-puberty transition will have a better outcome for an individual than waiting until they're an adult. However, the medical community (not our government) needs to develop strict protocols for doing so (including a reasonable amount of time for social transitioning first). We can't have minors crossing state lines without parental consent to receive life altering surgery from a sympathetic and activist medical clinic. Nor can we have teachers hiding this fact from their parents.
As I mentioned before I believe T is a not a reliable indicator of athletic advantage and where would you draw that line. I know males that have higher T than women that couldn't knock over a Solo cup with a punch.
The way I look at it is...having the ability to transition to another sex in today's American society is a gift not previously available and not currently available to many outside of the US. A MTF that wants to compete against women is exploiting that gift. However, lets not conflate women transgenders (that have a choice to transition and compete against women) with individuals that are born with, or develop, genetic sex anomalies. They should be treated differently...IMO.
Because the purple hairs that endorse this now just claim men are misogynists. It's got to have traction from real women. I mean, look at this dude. Anyone think that's a female? You EPL fans might recognize him. His twin brother plays the 9 for Manchester City.
It would be a whole lot more tolerant if "we just want to be accepted" was actually the intent. That part would be really good.
I think at age 16, if you are seriously thinking of dismembering a sexual and reproductive body part, you can start reading about the Pros and Cons and yes, tell your parents about your plans at age 16. No secrets with teacher or a Coach Walz type. This can take up to 12-24 months to begin the process and in the open. No quick way to do this and should be handled with care and caution. Too many parents on here are ok with this and it blows my mind. To each his own but my God people, let's not do something to a young child. Let that child become an adult for God's sake. By the way, my rule would be the biological male is 100% forbidden to play against biological females. Once the penis is removed, then discussion can take place about play against the females. Case by case. How many of these men trying to compete have already cut it off?
I can understand your position on some of the terms being used, but how would you handle the issue of MTF in women's sports?
I'm a black belt in karate and jujitsu so yes. Agree it's also not fun. I happen to agree with you in this case, rather than watfly (though I respect his reasoning). As I said, I think the more fundamental objection to allowing high t xxs to play in the same category as other women without suppressants is that it really does just render sports to an accident of birth and it undermines the prohibition against PEDs. On the other hand, I think watfly does illustrate the dilemma with women's sports as a lesser category. I think both of you are well reasoned on this point.
I think you've also answered the reason why we don't want women just dumped into the men's category (which watfly refused to answer). But I point out you have the same issue with the mtf ftm and intersex against the men;. The only rationale then for keeping them with the men is "I just don't care about them".
Did Aztec Central have books back in the day or were you dragging the stone tablets back and forth, uphill both ways, living off campus?
Leave him alone... his sanity pills appear to be kicking in and we don't want to disrupt the progress.
I guess I missed that question. What would that be?
Just FYI. if biological women want to compete against biological men, I say more power to them, unless it is unnecessarily unsafe or makes a mockery of the sport, although that is effectively self governed. I can't think of any sports offhand where woman have an inherent biological advantage.
If the test is they just need a place to play, why isn't it acceptable to just have 1 division where both men and women play a la Starship Troopers? What's the rationale for separate male and female divisions? Why do we do it? We are, after all, all human.
Well that's not my position, nor my test...you're making a strawman argument. Nevertheless I will repeat my answer. It's because it's the most obvious and common distinction in terms of performance capability. So its easy to divide men and women along competitive lines, regardless how hard certain people try to blur the line with subjective nonsense. Like I said, its not perfect, but its far more objective and reasonable than any other standard by a long shot. FYI, I have no idea who Starship Troopers are if that's even relevant to your question.
If your rationale is “clarity”, then it’s not a very good argument because the easiest clarity to say is that we should just have 1 division and be done with all the nonsense. This proposition is easier than by chromosome because you don’t have complications like testosterone imbalances or errant chromosomes or transgenders going back and forth. Why is gender separation better than just everyone plays together? Why doesn’t everyone plays together work? Its simple, easy and obvious because we are all human. Why do you dance around the answer? You admit after all your solution is not perfect, so why isn’t mine?
Asked and answered. There are clear physical performance ability differences between men and women. And dividing along X and Y chromosomes is an easy binary choice. It's as clear and easy as putting everyone in a co-ed competition category. If you can't thread that needle because of philosophy, then so be it. I will stick to reality.
Will there be biological anomalies, of course, but if you'll go into vapor lock trying to accommodate rare exceptions then nothing will be accomplished, or what is accomplished will have so many permutations as to render "the solution" arbitrary, unworkable and make a farce of the competition.
Well, you finally said it. "There are clear physical performance ability differences between men and women". There are also clear performance ability differences between MTF on suppressants or post surgery (no testosterone), FTM (no male puberty), and intersexed in comparison to xy males. The reality is they cannot compete either with an xy male on active testosterone, testosterone being a performance enhancing drug. So why do xx women get special treatment from you but not anyone else? Why do xx women get the benefit of this luxury, all the while you (and allies) are complaining that it is also unfair for xx women to compete with a MTF who has gone through puberty?
There are only a handful of possible rationales. It's not clarity because clarity is best served by everyone competing in the same category...you are still saying xx women are entitled to special treatment through a league of their own. One possibility is we don't care about them. Another possibility is they aren't worthy of respect. A third possibility is they did it to themselves so they deserve it. Otherwise, I'm struggling to see why one group of people deserves special treatment, but another does not. (Fair warning I do see a fourth possibility, but it's a dangerous one because it opens the door to acknowledging women's sport as "lesser" and therefore things like equal access to scholarships goes out the window).
As to why we should care, it's easy, because we are all individuals, granted by God with individual rights, entitled to equal treatment before the law. Just because it's a hard case doesn't mean we get to ignore it. Our liberty is made up of the hard cases.
NCAA has at least one completely coed sport --
TCU wins 2024 NC rifle championships
TCU wins the 2024 NC rifle championship. See the two-day championship recap and final results.
www.ncaa.com
At this point, I'm going to tap out because your effectively debating yourself since your mischaracterizing and ignoring my words to suit your own purposes.
Plus I don't do philosophy, its just opinions by self important people that aren't subject to the ramifications of the implementation of their own theories.