More potential NCAA changes

[Carlsbad7]

Oregon Asks Court to Reject Title IX Suit’s NIL ‘Theory’

UO beach volleyball players and club rowers are suing the school for sex discrimination. A settlement conference is set for next week.

www.sportico.com

Looks like the NIL Title 9 workaround is being challenged in court.

FYI for those that don't know colleges are giving money to male players via NIL. Female players are saying wait a minute. You can't just pay male players via NIL and not pay female players an equal amout of NIL funding per Title 9.

Interesting that Oregon is against equal NIL for male and female players.

 

[Zeke]

Oregon Asks Court to Reject Title IX Suit’s NIL ‘Theory’

UO beach volleyball players and club rowers are suing the school for sex discrimination. A settlement conference is set for next week.

www.sportico.com

Looks like the NIL Title 9 workaround is being challenged in court.

FYI for those that don't know colleges are giving money to male players via NIL. Female players are saying wait a minute. You can't just pay male players via NIL and not pay female players an equal amout of NIL funding per Title 9.

Interesting that Oregon is against equal NIL for male and female players.

If the athletes are employees, the schools will rethink sports funding before they do dollar for dollar equal pay. Athletic departments can't afford to pay a women's forward 1M per year just because that's what the men's QB makes. Even Rodman doesn't make that.

How they do that within Title IX is a different question.

 

[Carlsbad7]

If the athletes are employees, the schools will rethink sports funding before they do dollar for dollar equal pay. Athletic departments can't afford to pay a women's forward 1M per year just because that's what the men's QB makes. Even Rodman doesn't make that.

How they do that within Title IX is a different question.

That's the issue with the current NCAA settlement. They wanted to sanction NIL collectives. Basically NCAA wants to control who and how players get paid via NIL. BTW this is the section that was rejected by the judge last week.

If NCAA is able to control how players get paid via NIL. The question is are they also responsible for adhering to Title 9 and making the same amount of $$$ available to female players.

This sounds like a silly situation but not allowing NIL collectives because of Title 9 compleley opens up college sports.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

FYI many Ivys accept AP exam scores in place of SAT scores. They feel the AP tests better gauge the performance of students in subjects they have studies.

This is in the process of changing back. Several are now already requiring SAT (or ACT) scores again, and all signs look like it will continue to grow.

 

[Zeke]

That's the issue with the current NCAA settlement. They wanted to sanction NIL collectives. Basically NCAA wants to control who and how players get paid via NIL. BTW this is the section that was rejected by the judge last week.

If NCAA is able to control how players get paid via NIL. The question is are they also responsible for adhering to Title 9 and making the same amount of $$$ available to female players.

This sounds like a silly situation but not allowing NIL collectives because of Title 9 compleley opens up college sports.

I wonder if courts will uphold equal pay the same way they upheld equal scholarships.

It was easy while the schools could pretend the players are all merely students, and the games were a recreational activity for those students.
Under that view, the girls deserve just as much recreation as the boys.

But, when it is a job with a salary, it all looks different.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I wonder if courts will uphold equal pay the same way they upheld equal scholarships.

It was easy while the schools could pretend the players are all merely students, and the games were a recreational activity for those students.
Under that view, the girls deserve just as much recreation as the boys.

But, when it is a job with a salary, it all looks different.

By next spring most of the big hurdles will be addressed. I don't see how NCAA is going to find a way out of all this that preserves the concept of "amateurism" as it exists today. The only thing I can see colleges maintaining is 4-5 years of eligibility.

 

[WatchthemPlay]

This is in the process of changing back. Several are now already requiring SAT (or ACT) scores again, and all signs look like it will continue to grow.

Correct and they are asking about scores, even the schools that don’t yet require them yet. They went away with COVID and are coming back as a requirement. And yes you need to have multiple AP classes to show rigor. The required scores maybe aren’t as high as a non-soccer kid but they require very competitive scores not far out of the range of the average for regular admissions. For a player who is being recruited by multiple schools, it just feels uncertain to put your eggs all in the Ivy bucket and say no to other full ride offers. Bummer that is the situation, but it is. A lot of stress to put on a kid.

 

[Mosafie]

College football players now make more money than Pro MLS players.

Oregon spend over $23 million last year building their football team. That's more than the LA Galaxy total salary.

The settlement with the NCAA which the schools agreed to says 22% of their revenue will be shared with athletes. All athletes are placed in a pool and paid equally. This will become an issue for low revenue schools trying to compete with big ones in Football. The only way they can pay football players more is to cut other sports and many will do that. Football is the only sport that matters.

NIL is completely different issue and is still demand based. NIL money may be passed through universities but the companies paying them contract directly with players. No NCAA or court is going to tell Nike how much they can pay each athlete at Oregon for their NIL.

Caleb Williams was the highest paid NIL athlete and got zero money directly from USC.

Within the next 10 years the 3 or 4 big conference will ditch the NCAA. Go private a single giant league. Make and police their own rules.

 

[Yak]

The settlement with the NCAA which the schools agreed to says 22% of their revenue will be shared with athletes. All athletes are placed in a pool and paid equally.

To be clear, all athletes playing a particular sport are paid equally. Revenue is not shared equally among all atheletes at the school. At least per the draft settlement

 

[Carlsbad7]

College football players now make more money than Pro MLS players.

Oregon spend over $23 million last year building their football team. That's more than the LA Galaxy total salary.

The settlement with the NCAA which the schools agreed to says 22% of their revenue will be shared with athletes. All athletes are placed in a pool and paid equally. This will become an issue for low revenue schools trying to compete with big ones in Football. The only way they can pay football players more is to cut other sports and many will do that. Football is the only sport that matters.

NIL is completely different issue and is still demand based. NIL money may be passed through universities but the companies paying them contract directly with players. No NCAA or court is going to tell Nike how much they can pay each athlete at Oregon for their NIL.

Caleb Williams was the highest paid NIL athlete and got zero money directly from USC.

Within the next 10 years the 3 or 4 big conference will ditch the NCAA. Go private a single giant league. Make and police their own rules.

Reguarding NIL what you're describing is what the Oregon case I provided a link to is about. NCAA is trying to control NIL by forcing payments to go through collectives which NCAA can define rules for. Also yes colleges are giving NIL $$$ to players through the collectives.

The Oregon lawsuit is saying hold on a minute, colleges are giving $$$ to male football players via NIL through collectives. Because the $$$ is coming from schools it's subject to Title 9 and and equivalent amount of $$$ should go to female players.

Nike can still give NIL money directly to players but colleges can't use NIL as a way to funnel money into male players + not pay an equivalent amount to female players because of Title 9.

 

[Carlsbad7]

WHL player commits to ASU, challenging NCAA

Braxton Whitehead of the WHL's Regina Pats has received a verbal commitment from Arizona State's Division I program despite NCAA eligibility rules that prevent any player who has appeared in a major junior hockey game from playing college hockey.

www.espn.com

Players that have played and been paid for playing "Pro" hockey are now committing to D1 schools.

This is a direct challenge to NCAAs "amateurism" concept. Schools see that NCAA can't enforce amature status or they'll get put in court. In the end the only thing NCAA will be able to enforce is the number of years of college eligibility.

For soccer what this means is MLS players or any professional league players are eligible for playing in college.

This will have deep ramifications for all kinds of different sports. Recruiters will be able to recruit pro players that want to go back to school. So now HS recruits are competing against 21+ year old full time professional players for roster spots.

 

[crush]

This will have deep ramifications for all kinds of different sports. Recruiters will be able to recruit pro players that want to go back to school. So now HS recruits are competing against 21+ year old full time professional players for roster spots.

100%. This is great. Go Pro at 16 then come back for a degree at 20, play 4 years of top college soccer and then go live life. Or, play pro 8 years, travel the world for free, make some moneyand then come back to school at 24, ball and then become a coach or teacher at 28.

 

[Carlsbad7]

100%. This is great. Go Pro at 16 then come back for a degree at 20, play 4 years of top college soccer and then go live life. Or, play pro 8 years, travel the world for free, make some moneyand then come back to school at 24, ball and then become a coach or teacher at 28.

I don't know if the changes will be good or bad for young people. It does seem like college sports will end up just like pro sports but with the added benefit of scholorships and a college degree.

What's to stop a big name pro from playing on a college team the way Premier League players play in MLS when they get old? Once you stop being effective in a pro league just play in college and make $$$ off your name via NIL beating up on former HS players.

 

[watfly]

WHL player commits to ASU, challenging NCAA

Braxton Whitehead of the WHL's Regina Pats has received a verbal commitment from Arizona State's Division I program despite NCAA eligibility rules that prevent any player who has appeared in a major junior hockey game from playing college hockey.

www.espn.com

Players that have played and been paid for playing "Pro" hockey are now committing to D1 schools.

This is a direct challenge to NCAAs "amateurism" concept. Schools see that NCAA can't enforce amature status or they'll get put in court. In the end the only thing NCAA will be able to enforce is the number of years of college eligibility.

For soccer what this means is MLS players or any professional league players are eligible for playing in college.

This will have deep ramifications for all kinds of different sports. Recruiters will be able to recruit pro players that want to go back to school. So now HS recruits are competing against 21+ year old full time professional players for roster spots.

Fairly common for hockey players to play a year of two of professional Junior Hockey before going to college.

What I'm saying is that colleges have been making so much money off students + donations + federal funding + etc that they've been able to save up soo much money that the (tax free) interest alone could fund the entire school.

That's the bigger picture. Many universities are sitting on multi-billion dollar endowments and still charge exorbitant amounts for tuition. I say they should be ineligible for federal funding (and/or taxed) unless they put some of the money back into lowering tuition. Research students in many cases bring more money into the school than a soccer player. Where's their NIL money.

Crazy that this all started with Ed O'Bannon suing the NCAA for using his likeness on a video game. I feel like its one thing to use someone's likeness for a "side gig" and not compensate the player, and a whole other thing when a college receives ticket revenue and tv money and players expect to share in that income when the college creates the platform for that to occur (while the player receives a free education). I'm conflicted and just feel like we've jumped the shark when it comes to compensation and unionization of college athletes.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Fairly common for hockey players to play a year of two of professional Junior Hockey before going to college.

That's the bigger picture. Many universities are sitting on multi-billion dollar endowments and still charge exorbitant amounts for tuition. I say they should be ineligible for federal funding (and/or taxed) unless they put some of the money back into lowering tuition. Research students in many cases bring more money into the school than a soccer player. Where's their NIL money.

Crazy that this all started with Ed O'Bannon suing the NCAA for using his likeness on a video game. I feel like its one thing to use someone's likeness for a "side gig" and not compensate the player, and a whole other thing when a college receives ticket revenue and tv money and players expect to share in that income when the college creates the platform for that to occur (while the player receives a free education). I'm conflicted and just feel like we've jumped the shark when it comes to compensation and unionization of college athletes.

Everyone's got their own opinion on the topic. I'd like to point out that if colleges paid players as employees everything would work out. The issue with NCAA is they're going to go down kicking and screaming for their "right" to exploit players.

 

[watfly]

Everyone's got their own opinion on the topic. I'd like to point out that if colleges paid players as employees everything would work out. The issue with NCAA is they're going to go down kicking and screaming for their "right" to exploit players.

Yes, the NCAA is corrupt and greedy. I'm not convinced that paying players as employees is the solution, but I don't have any better suggestion. I'll admit that this is an issue I can't really get my mind around.

 

[Code]

Best thing that could happen is college sports goes away, and colleges focus on education and research. The althetes can continue to play in free-market sports leagues for compensation, or in local leagues for the love of playing the game.

 

[crush]

Best thing that could happen is college sports goes away, and colleges focus on education and research. The althetes can continue to play in free-market sports leagues for compensation, or in local leagues for the love of playing the game.

I have a very good friend whose daughter is studying biology in England and then plays on the soccer team for fun and competition. The schools in England are more specific, like a biology only Big U. Gov pays a little, Parents pay a little, she works part time to pay a little and she gets a little help for being on the club soccer team for the school. Soccer is very popular in England. I think we need to blow up this sports system and just focus on your specific trade.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I have a very good friend whose daughter is studying biology in England and then plays on the soccer team for fun and competition. The schools in England are more specific, like a biology only Big U. Gov pays a little, Parents pay a little, she works part time to pay a little and she gets a little help for being on the club soccer team for the school. Soccer is very popular in England. I think we need to blow up this sports system and just focus on your specific trade.

College is a place people go to learn a "trade" as you defined. If this is the case do college coach's have an obligation to train student athletes for playing the game professionally?

If above is true why did Mens D1 soccer only change to International substitution rules recently. And again if true why doesn't Women's D1 soccer follow international rules for substitutions? If this is how the game is played professionally colleges should mirror it while preparing players to play professionally.

The answer is that college sports have lost their way. Through the NCAA enablement of student athlete exploitation college sports became entertainment, a spectacle, and a recruitment tool. Now that NCAA is losing in court and colleges will soon be forced to pay players it will be interesting to see how many just drop sports all together.

 

[Larzby]

Best thing that could happen is college sports goes away, and colleges focus on education and research. The althetes can continue to play in free-market sports leagues for compensation, or in local leagues for the love of playing the game.

I've been kicking this conclusion in my head since the NIL decision came down. Like the last poster said, this conundrum is one most people just can't wrap their heads around, me included. I'm pretty much a fanatic of college sports, so it is hard to swallow for me, but there doesn't seem to be any other outcome that has a more logical basic. Sports just isn't properly in the mission of an institution of higher learning. TOTALLY fun, and college wouldn't be the same, but there's no logic to it - - at least no logic that sticks with all these thorny issues to be resolved. It just comes down to: everyone wants money and college sports gives lots of people money.

 

[dad4]

I've been kicking this conclusion in my head since the NIL decision came down. Like the last poster said, this conundrum is one most people just can't wrap their heads around, me included. I'm pretty much a fanatic of college sports, so it is hard to swallow for me, but there doesn't seem to be any other outcome that has a more logical basic. Sports just isn't properly in the mission of an institution of higher learning. TOTALLY fun, and college wouldn't be the same, but there's no logic to it - - at least no logic that sticks with all these thorny issues to be resolved. It just comes down to: everyone wants money and college sports gives lots of people money.

I think part of the purpose of college sports is to create an on campus social scene.

Colleges have symphonies and theater productions. This serves to entertain both the audience and the participants. At many schools, sports fit into that space.

It gets weird when alumni donations turn out to depend on the W/L record of the football team. That's when you get scholarships, million-dollar coach salaries, and so on. But that's nothing to do with sports. You'd see a 5 million dollar theater director salary if there was TV revenue on the line.