ECNL. The C stands for Cartel

The question isn’t whether there is any skill involved particularly on the pro level. The question is how much, how easy is it to learn and how does that compare to the other sports. As shown above, football itself draws a distinction between the so-called skilled and non-skilled positions (again their words, not mine). The relative argument is that all other things being equal (proper body type/work ethic) it is easier to pick up being a linesman than either a qb or soccer player. Kids aren’t walking onto high school and college play as novice qbs. Then aren’t walking onto mls next teams as novices on college. They are in high school and has been pointed out even in college for linesmen. Nothing offered so far rebuts that.
Every sport has their novices and elites. You said it takes less skill to play lineman in football than to play soccer, and which I’ve rebutted you don’t understand what it takes nor will you ever. And yes there are “novice” lineman in college, much like there are “novice” soccer players in college. And no, it’s not easier to play lineman than soccer, just differences that you don’t recognize.
 
Every sport has their novices and elites. You said it takes less skill to play lineman in football than to play soccer, and which I’ve rebutted you don’t understand what it takes nor will you ever. And yes there are “novice” lineman in college, much like there are “novice” soccer players in college. And no, it’s not easier to play lineman than soccer, just differences that you don’t recognize.
Size is the first determining factor in being a lineman, then quickness and technique. Lineman are the greatest UNSUNG hero of all sports.
 
Every sport has their novices and elites. You said it takes less skill to play lineman in football than to play soccer, and which I’ve rebutted you don’t understand what it takes nor will you ever. And yes there are “novice” lineman in college, much like there are “novice” soccer players in college. And no, it’s not easier to play lineman than soccer, just differences that you don’t recognize.
Might be a definitional problem in that you have a very broad definition of novice but no…there are no novice soccer plays at any of the d schools on the boys side at least…not one kid coming out of ayso and not one kid that hasn’t done it for years. Yes they are a rarity but as has been established there are novice linesmen going into college. They aren’t comparable and the sport ITSELF draws a distinction between the positions. There is not a single freshman player on the line at my nephew’s top 20 school that has put even a 1/10th of the hours that my freshman kid has in soccer. No comparison. And that’s freshman year with a limited ability of those linesmen to train given the wear and tear on their bodies. It’s not even close.
That’s a completely different question than “easier”. I’d say being a linesman is actually harder than being a soccer player just because of the punishment. The question isn’t easier v difficult but easy v difficult in skill.
 
Might be a definitional problem in that you have a very broad definition of novice but no…there are no novice soccer plays at any of the d schools on the boys side at least…not one kid coming out of ayso and not one kid that hasn’t done it for years. Yes they are a rarity but as has been established there are novice linesmen going into college. They aren’t comparable and the sport ITSELF draws a distinction between the positions. There is not a single freshman player on the line at my nephew’s top 20 school that has put even a 1/10th of the hours that my freshman kid has in soccer. No comparison. And that’s freshman year with a limited ability of those linesmen to train given the wear and tear on their bodies. It’s not even close.
That’s a completely different question than “easier”. I’d say being a linesman is actually harder than being a soccer player just because of the punishment. The question isn’t easier v difficult but easy v difficult in skill.
Two analogies. The singer v guitarist in a band. The guitarist may or may not read music but to play on a professional level will have put years of work on the technique. The singer does not necessarily have to be trained….there are naturally gifted singers who have gone professional with no voice training whatsoever. On the whole, it is harder to learn to play the guitar than to be the singer in a professional band. Yet the singer takes most of the glory and the singer may actually have the harder job given the band rises and falls with them

Chess v checkers. Chess is just a multidimensional game that takes longer to learn. You can have someone innately come along that masters both games quickly. But on the whole it is harder to be a chess grand master than checkers. That doesn’t mean, however, that if you put the checkers master in a stadium filled with screaming people and loud music with a clock that they wouldn’t have a harder time than the chess master playing in his home with his notes and books and the ready against equivalent opponents
 
As shown above, football itself draws a distinction between the so-called skilled and non-skilled positions (again their words, not mine).

You keep repeating this, and don't understand that nobody but you labels the other positions as non-skilled. The opposite of skilled positions is not non-skilled, low-skilled, or un-skilled positions. It's not just a language thing - you are fundamentally misunderstanding the entire topic.
 
Two analogies. The singer v guitarist in a band. The guitarist may or may not read music but to play on a professional level will have put years of work on the technique. The singer does not necessarily have to be trained….there are naturally gifted singers who have gone professional with no voice training whatsoever. On the whole, it is harder to learn to play the guitar than to be the singer in a professional band. Yet the singer takes most of the glory and the singer may actually have the harder job given the band rises and falls with them

Chess v checkers. Chess is just a multidimensional game that takes longer to learn. You can have someone innately come along that masters both games quickly. But on the whole it is harder to be a chess grand master than checkers. That doesn’t mean, however, that if you put the checkers master in a stadium filled with screaming people and loud music with a clock that they wouldn’t have a harder time than the chess master playing in his home with his notes and books and the ready against equivalent opponents

Pick an analogy that works, is relevant, and supports your point. Neither of these do.
 
You keep repeating this, and don't understand that nobody but you labels the other positions as non-skilled. The opposite of skilled positions is not non-skilled, low-skilled, or un-skilled positions. It's not just a language thing - you are fundamentally misunderstanding the entire topic.
A. Its in the citations. It used RIGHT THERE. B. It’s a Venn diagram. If one thing is within the other is not C. The article itself sets up the opposite. Says “by contrast”. That’s just reading comprehension. D. It’s the rule of language construction. If one is that which is not within the definition is “non” meaning not. As that which does not make sense is nonsense (which is what you’ve just laid out here)


Pick an analogy that works, is relevant, and supports your point. Neither of these do.
They do. There are more. Again your position seems to continually be arguing “is not is not” the more which is put up against you.
 
Maybe instead of just assuming one league is "better" than another you should try to understand why a player or parent might choose one league or the other.
Not an assumption, just reality that ECNL has better competition and recruitment. Just like how GA has better competition and recruitment than NPL or E64 league. Imagine a parent banging on a drum constantly saying that E64/NPL is just as good as GA.
 
A. Its in the citations. It used RIGHT THERE. B. It’s a Venn diagram. If one thing is within the other is not C. The article itself sets up the opposite. Says “by contrast”. That’s just reading comprehension. D. It’s the rule of language construction. If one is that which is not within the definition is “non” meaning not. As that which does not make sense is nonsense (which is what you’ve just laid out here)

We are talking football. You are talking logic. You are wrong about football no matter how many times you repeat it. The language error that you are making, if you want to be pedantic, is that skill positions in football are a label, same as if they said they were blue positions or fluffy positions. There is no opposite of either - it's just a label. You are misinterpreting that skill must mean there is a no-skill or less-skill, when all it really means it whether they are expected to touch the ball often or not.

They do. There are more. Again your position seems to continually be arguing “is not is not” the more which is put up against you.

Chess is a more complicated game than checkers. There are many more mathematical permutations, and assigning skill to the two disciplines can be compared and contrasted. Trying to do the same between sports runs down a path that ends with a whole bunch of unfounded and uninformed opinion, typically by one who is deep in one sport but not the other - doesn't matter which sport is which.
 
We are talking football. You are talking logic. You are wrong about football no matter how many times you repeat it. The language error that you are making, if you want to be pedantic, is that skill positions in football are a label, same as if they said they were blue positions or fluffy positions. There is no opposite of either - it's just a label. You are misinterpreting that skill must mean there is a no-skill or less-skill, when all it really means it whether they are expected to touch the ball often or not.



Chess is a more complicated game than checkers. There are many more mathematical permutations, and assigning skill to the two disciplines can be compared and contrasted. Trying to do the same between sports runs down a path that ends with a whole bunch of unfounded and uninformed opinion, typically by one who is deep in one sport but not the other - doesn't matter which sport is which.
The reality is they aren't labelled blue or fluffy. They chose a word which has a specific meaning. They could have gone with the "handling" positions....very easy...they didn't. I'm not interpreting anything here. It's just English. I'm sorry but I haven't received my eleventh edition of the Newspeak dictionary.

I'm also not just contrasting between the sports but within the sport itself: quarterback is a much more skilled position than linesman. Quarterback is probably the most skilled position in football. You aren't jumping into quarterback as a freshmen at a top 20 southern California high school if you haven't done it before...you can jump in as a lineman if you got the right build.
 
I'm sorry but I haven't received my eleventh edition of the Newspeak dictionary.

Or have taken the time to learn football terms before denigrating the sport and its positions.

I'm also not just contrasting between the sports but within the sport itself: quarterback is a much more skilled position than linesman. Quarterback is probably the most skilled position in football. You aren't jumping into quarterback as a freshmen at a top 20 southern California high school if you haven't done it before...you can jump in as a lineman if you got the right build.

No, you're backtracking. Again - here's what you said:

Football is a low skilled sport for most positions (QB, receiver and certain other positions exempted)

And it remains as untrue now as it was then.
 
Or have taken the time to learn football terms before denigrating the sport and its positions.



No, you're backtracking. Again - here's what you said:



And it remains as untrue now as it was then.
1. I'm not denigrating football. I'm actually a fan. I like it more than I do soccer. I think it's more suited to the American character.
2. It's the sport's terminology, not mine. It's what they say themselves, which is why I carved out certain positions. A more interesting argument is whether a receiver is a harder skill to learn than a soccer player...I have my opinion but am agnostic as to the actual outcome...I can see the arguments for both sides with that.
3. I already told you I'm willing to amend to say "football is a lowER skilled sports for most positions (QB,..."). Rather than take the win, you doubled down on the ridiculous assertion that a linesman is as hard as position to learn as QB or soccer player, a position for which you have advanced no evidence for despite the arguments made on the other side. Either that or you hold to the ridiculous belief that all sports positions are equally hard...that's not true either...the GK position in the modern game by far has much much more to learn than even the striker position.
4. There's no backtracking here. You know QB is short for quarterback, right???? It's right there in the quote.
 
1. I'm not denigrating football. I'm actually a fan. I like it more than I do soccer. I think it's more suited to the American character.

"I'm not a xxxist, I have xxx friends. I just say xxx things."

2. It's the sport's terminology, not mine. It's what they say themselves, which is why I carved out certain positions.

You continue to misuse and misunderstand the terminology, and you stated that most positions are low-skilled. It's right there in the quote.

A more interesting argument is whether a receiver is a harder skill to learn than a soccer player...I have my opinion but am agnostic as to the actual outcome...I can see the arguments for both sides with that.

So something that is harder to do takes more skill - or is it that less people can do that thing well - or is it how many hours spent working on that thing. The definition and use of skill can't be morphed like that - but if it is it's certainly pretty easy to morph whether something requires it to function well.

3. I already told you I'm willing to amend to say "football is a lowER skilled sports for most positions (QB,..."). Rather than take the win, you doubled down on the ridiculous assertion that a linesman is as hard as position to learn as QB or soccer player, a position for which you have advanced no evidence for despite the arguments made on the other side. Either that or you hold to the ridiculous belief that all sports positions are equally hard...that's not true either...the GK position in the modern game by far has much much more to learn than even the striker position.

That is neither a suitable amendment to avoid people continuing to point out that you have no idea what you're talking about, nor did anybody double down on anything except you. The statement being discussed from the beginning until now is that most football positions are low-skilled.

4. There's no backtracking here. You know QB is short for quarterback, right???? It's right there in the quote.

You posed lineman vs. qb, and said that you can't jump in to an unnamed school at the high school level, as proof that your initial statement isn't absurd. That's backtracking from the initial statement. I understand all of the positions. Do you?
 
"I'm not a xxxist, I have xxx friends. I just say xxx things."



You continue to misuse and misunderstand the terminology, and you stated that most positions are low-skilled. It's right there in the quote.



So something that is harder to do takes more skill - or is it that less people can do that thing well - or is it how many hours spent working on that thing. The definition and use of skill can't be morphed like that - but if it is it's certainly pretty easy to morph whether something requires it to function well.



That is neither a suitable amendment to avoid people continuing to point out that you have no idea what you're talking about, and nobody doubled down on anything except you. The statement being discussed from the beginning until now is that most football positions are low-skilled.



You posed lineman vs. qb, and said that you can't jump in to an unnamed school at the high school level, as proof that your initial statement isn't absurd. That's backtracking from the initial statement. I understand all of the positions. Do you?
Again, not my terminology and you have done nothing to rebut the wikipedia article with citations. The only thing your argument amounts to is "I know better" without any proof. I tried to meet you half way, give you the benefit of the doubt, but you wouldn't take it and instead double down on the absurd position. No 2+2 does not equal five and Oceania has not always been at war with East Asia. I can see what I can see with my own eyes, and you wishing it not to be so doesn't change that.
 
In real life, one doesn't win an argument if they can find enough citations that tangentially support the point they are trying to make. They are either right or wrong. And in most cases, both tend to leave in opposite directions and continue to believe they are right.

Pretty sure we're there. Others can make their own determinations.
 
Pretty sure we're there. Others can make their own determinations.
It's not just that. You've been presented with specific instances, theory, and the definitions of people involved in the sports itself. You've done nothing to alter it other than say you were offended by the lack of an "er" which I've granted you, and say you disagree. It's not a question of evidence v. evidence....it's that you've advanced nothing but personal belief, which is fine, but then don't be outraged. Your belief is your belief.
 
All the more reason to get annoyed with ECNL. The ECNL map doesn't look like a map of the best soccer players. It's a map of where the rich families live. So, we have five clubs north of San Pablo Bay, and zero clubs in the Central Valley.

Sorry, but can you explain?

My point was that, if we take Norcal as an example (which is where I'm from), even Rage at the bottom of almost every age group in the ECNL league, can consistently beat the best non-ECNL/GA teams in NorCal and Central Valley (as they demonstrated when they were allowed to participate in NPL). So, unlike the situation with boys' teams, there aren't as many "diamonds in the rough" that are not scooped up by ECNL or GA.

On the boys' side, yes, there is so much talent that is missed by MLS/ECNL, that it's a sports crime. But on the girls' side, I don't think there is the same level of participation such that tons of girls are slipping through the cracks. Many of these excluded communities don't seem to support girls' soccer the same way that they support their boys' teams, or that the ECNL/GA-covered areas support girls' teams. I mean, if you play a Central Valley boys' team, you can expect a massive crowd, food, noise, etc. It's an EVENT. Not so much for their girls' teams - in my experience.
 
Pretty sure we're there. Others can make their own determinations.


I have to agree with Grace. Football is a game of skill, but is far more dependent on size, strength and speed than soccer. Here's some examples who have taken years long gaps between playing, some of which never played American football until the NFL:

NFL Players Who Skipped College - TheSpread.com

5 Rugby players to crossover to the NFL (americanfootballinternational.com)

Stephen Neal's unique journey to the NFL has proven successful (patriots.com)

Chester Pitts - Wikipedia (Didn't play in highschool)

These are the only unskilled players that "played" pro soccer that I can think of and they both at least played growing up:

Carlos Kaiser (footballer) - Wikipedia

Usain Bolt - Wikipedia
 
I have to agree with Grace. Football is a game of skill, but is far more dependent on size, strength and speed than soccer.

I might even agree with much of that. But Grace said that most positions in football are low-skilled. Not that soccer positions are more skilled than football positions. Do you still agree with her?
 
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