Game fixing

[Mystery Train]

I also asked a few times what should be done about it and under what grounds.
So far nobody has responded to that. USYS isn't doing anything to the teams that I have heard about. If they do, it is just not what I expected. I doubt anything will happen as there are no grounds for it (that I am aware of).

I'll give you my answer.

I was appalled by the video clip and was quick to react to the image of two teams standing in place and tapping a ball to each other for two minutes. Reading GKdad's first hand account which stated that the game started out with some probing attacks and runs and then devolved into what was shown on the clip when both teams realized there was going to be no pressure put in their defensive half, softened me a bit. We all can be guilty of overreacting to 90 seconds of video out of context. But even if the entire game was "played" like the video clip, I don't think USYS should take aggressive action or sanction/suspend people over it because, as you said, no rules were broken. Sanctioning and suspending for violating the "spirit" of the game is not something an administrative body wants to get into. So you're right . . . in a lawyerly kind of way (sounds like that may even be your line of work, no?), but that doesn't mean that we can't all learn from this and make it a teachable moment. It was a terrible look for both coaches, at the very least. I think most of us would not have been really proud to walk off the field that day if we had been participants. My reaction to the video was not a legal/rules disagreement, but rather feeling like the coaches robbed their players of the dignity that every competitor feels when they walk off the field having given their all to the game win or lose. It ceases to be a "game" when there is no risk involved. And games are supposed to be fun. That goes for every level of sport all the way to professional. If there is no risk, there is no game, if it isn't a game, what is the damn point? A trophy for the sake of a trophy? I think the coaches involved could benefit from some soul-searching. In retrospect, could they have achieved their goal and still honored the spirit of the game? I think so, because I've seen other coaches do it. My daughter's coach did it and many of the posters here have told stories where their team was in a similar situation and a competitive game was still held. Nobody needs to be drawn and quartered over this, but I wouldn't have been proud to be a part of that spectacle. And I don't think anyone should bash the kids over this. They aren't to blame.

 

[LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad]

I'll give you my answer.

I was appalled by the video clip and was quick to react to the image of two teams standing in place and tapping a ball to each other for two minutes. Reading GKdad's first hand account which stated that the game started out with some probing attacks and runs and then devolved into what was shown on the clip when both teams realized there was going to be no pressure put in their defensive half, softened me a bit. We all can be guilty of overreacting to 90 seconds of video out of context. But even if the entire game was "played" like the video clip, I don't think USYS should take aggressive action or sanction/suspend people over it because, as you said, no rules were broken. Sanctioning and suspending for violating the "spirit" of the game is not something an administrative body wants to get into. So you're right . . . in a lawyerly kind of way (sounds like that may even be your line of work, no?), but that doesn't mean that we can't all learn from this and make it a teachable moment. It was a terrible look for both coaches, at the very least. I think most of us would not have been really proud to walk off the field that day if we had been participants. My reaction to the video was not a legal/rules disagreement, but rather feeling like the coaches robbed their players of the dignity that every competitor feels when they walk off the field having given their all to the game win or lose. It ceases to be a "game" when there is no risk involved. And games are supposed to be fun. That goes for every level of sport all the way to professional. If there is no risk, there is no game, if it isn't a game, what is the damn point? A trophy for the sake of a trophy? I think the coaches involved could benefit from some soul-searching. In retrospect, could they have achieved their goal and still honored the spirit of the game? I think so, because I've seen other coaches do it. My daughter's coach did it and many of the posters here have told stories where their team was in a similar situation and a competitive game was still held. Nobody needs to be drawn and quartered over this, but I wouldn't have been proud to be a part of that spectacle. And I don't think anyone should bash the kids over this. They aren't to blame.

Honestly, I think that's a pretty fair assessment and summation. I think all of the coaches involved, if presented with the exact same scenario again, would probably handle it differently such that the optics would appear less offensive. The ultimate outcome would be no different (in terms of which teams went through or not), but the game might look more like a game. I'm still not convinced it would change the reaction from Syracuse that somehow seemed to think Carlsbad owed something to them and to the spirit of the game to do their best to help them by beating Ambassadors by the 4 goals they needed.

As for how people "felt" during and after the game, that's hard to answer. Any natural feelings the players and parents may have had during and after about how the game was played were quickly replaced by a feeling of absolute disgust from the behavior of Syracuse when they descended upon our game with their repulsiveness. When the game ended, our direction and concern was to get the girls onto their vans as fast as possible and with escorts from tournament security and parents to protect them from any verbal assaults (or worse) that Syracuse directed at them. Honestly, their reaction took over any thought or memory anyone had regarding that game. It further made it pretty easy for no one to feel any remorse or regret about the game, because, "F-you, Syracuse, you are all a bunch of dicks and you just proved it. Enjoy your flight home."

 

[Zoro]

I'll give you my answer.
... Nobody needs to be drawn and quartered over this, but I wouldn't have been proud to be a part of that spectacle. And I don't think anyone should bash the kids over this. They aren't to blame.

Thank you for your answer.
Note that you are not one saying anything should be done, so respectfully you are not the poster I was looking to respond to the question. I was looking for someone that had an action in mind and I wanted to hear how they would justify it. Your answer was in the end the same as mine. There is nothing to do.
I would, as USYS look at the rules that allow this (games that do not require a winner to advance - aka pool play) and determine if it is worth changing them.
But some here think this is a morality/right/wrong issue. I don't. But I'll respond to the OP who maybe should have said this thread was about the morality on how you play the ball in the opening line.

...
However the discussion is not about that, it's about moral side of the story and coaches who allowed this to happen.

I assume what was immoral was how the ball was played. Or the spectators speech, certainly if true, but that is not the focus of this thread.
But who was it that was immoral? Players broke no rules. Coaches broke no rules. The cause of this was USYS that made rules.
So is USYS an immoral organization, or just this was an immoral tournament by playing girls in the heat?
Anyway who should we blame for being immoral?

I think the whole right/wrong, big G little g, moral argument here is a bit heavy**. The discussion should be what should be done, or not. USYS made rules and different rules would cause different results. That should be the focus.

**My son who is the same age as these girls. Today he is sitting in the USAF Academy reviewing when to obey/deny orders on moral grounds. They think 17/18 year old's can judge that with weapons , but many here on this soccer thread think these girls don't have that capability.

 

[Mystery Train]

Honestly, I think that's a pretty fair assessment and summation. I think all of the coaches involved, if presented with the exact same scenario again, would probably handle it differently such that the optics would appear less offensive. The ultimate outcome would be no different (in terms of which teams went through or not), but the game might look more like a game. I'm still not convinced it would change the reaction from Syracuse that somehow seemed to think Carlsbad owed something to them and to the spirit of the game to do their best to help them by beating Ambassadors by the 4 goals they needed.

As for how people "felt" during and after the game, that's hard to answer. Any natural feelings the players and parents may have had during and after about how the game was played were quickly replaced by a feeling of absolute disgust from the behavior of Syracuse when they descended upon our game with their repulsiveness. When the game ended, our direction and concern was to get the girls onto their vans as fast as possible and with escorts from tournament security and parents to protect them from any verbal assaults (or worse) that Syracuse directed at them. Honestly, their reaction took over any thought or memory anyone had regarding that game. It further made it pretty easy for no one to feel any remorse or regret about the game, because, "F-you, Syracuse, you are all a bunch of dicks and you just proved it. Enjoy your flight home."

Yes. It's too bad there isn't a video clip of the Syracuse parent's verbal abuse. I can understand being frustrated, but they should have won when it counted.

 

[LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad]

In my last post, I suggested that the coaches and players involved would likely do it differently if this scenario came up again, but to Zoro's posts, would USYS? THE refs? The head of referees? The representatives from Cal South? The tournament officials? ALL of them were there, and ALL of them were asked many times as the game continued to devolve, if what was happening was OK. All of them said it was. Do we think maybe they would give different responses now when asked again? If so, WHAT could they tell the teams they had to do? Other than, "hey, can you please just make it look better," I'm not sure what actual instruction they could give.

 

[Surfref]

In my last post, I suggested that the coaches and players involved would likely do it differently if this scenario came up again, but to Zoro's posts, would USYS? THE refs? The head of referees? The representatives from Cal South? The tournament officials? ALL of them were there, and ALL of them were asked many times as the game continued to devolve, if what was happening was OK. All of them said it was. Do we think maybe they would give different responses now when asked again? If so, WHAT could they tell the teams they had to do? Other than, "hey, can you please just make it look better," I'm not sure what actual instruction they could give.

As long as the players where not sitting down, which I would interpret as a possible heat related injury, there isn't anything the referee could do. I am not sure what you (posters on this forum) would expect the referee do other than to note the style of play or lack there of in the match. From the short video I saw and read on hear, it appears as if the LOTG and tournament rules were not violated.

 

[ajaffe]

At what point do you all just agree to disagree? It is clearly obvious there is a lot of grey area on this one.

Was it in the "spirit" of the competition? No
Was it in the "spirit" of competition? Sure

 

[Surfref]

At Surf Cup today during an LAGSD game my AR says at halftime the parents were saying, "This is the team I saw on ESPN that cheated at National Cup." I set my AR straight and told her to ignore the parents. I was surprised at the inaccurate story the opposing teams parents were spreading.

 

[LadiesMan217]

At Surf Cup today during an LAGSD game my AR says at halftime the parents were saying, "This is the team I saw on ESPN that cheated at National Cup." I set my AR straight and told her to ignore the parents. I was surprised at the inaccurate story the opposing teams parents were spreading.

Bwahahahahahahaha

 

[meatsweats]

At Surf Cup today during an LAGSD game my AR says at halftime the parents were saying, "This is the team I saw on ESPN that cheated at National Cup." I set my AR straight and told her to ignore the parents. I was surprised at the inaccurate story the opposing teams parents were spreading.

Isn't today the "youngers" at Surf Cup??

 

[Zoro]

....
Was it in the "spirit" of the competition? No...

Obviously, by now, I disagree.
The competition was the tournament. They were totally within the spirit of winning the National championship - just they didn't.

Not that a cycling analogy will help but...
This was just like a stage in the Tour de France. Riders in stages hold back so they can help another day.

 

[ajaffe]

Obviously, by now, I disagree.
The competition was the tournament. They were totally within the spirit of winning the National championship - just they didn't.

Not that a cycling analogy will help but...
This was just like a stage in the Tour de France. Riders in stages hold back so they can help another day.

Re-read my post, I was very intentional in my wording.

 

[Zoro]

Re-read my post, I was very intentional in my wording.

I saw the quotes. What disturbs me is competition authorities making up rules after the fact. Seems USYS is doing this. There is no rule about Spirit of the game. A fine over Spirit (to both teams - what they said they did) - suggests to me they have no idea about what the Spirit of the Game is.
There are rules, laws and Spirit. Fines over Spirit violations makes me both sad and happy we are not involved with USYS.

 

[texanincali]

This was just like a stage in the Tour de France. Riders in stages hold back so they can help another day.

Actually, the two are absolutely nothing alike.

 

[espola]

I saw the quotes. What disturbs me is competition authorities making up rules after the fact. Seems USYS is doing this. There is no rule about Spirit of the game. A fine over Spirit (to both teams - what they said they did) - suggests to me they have no idea about what the Spirit of the Game is.
There are rules, laws and Spirit. Fines over Spirit violations makes me both sad and happy we are not involved with USYS.

Has there been any announcements about punishments to the coaches or their clubs? I agree that nothing the teams did violated any published laws or rules of competition. In fact, I can imagine both coaches giving almost the same pre-game instructions to their teams, telling them to play tight defense and not worry about going forward, since they don't have to win, just not lose.

 

[LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad]

Has there been any announcements about punishments to the coaches or their clubs? I agree that nothing the teams did violated any published laws or rules of competition. In fact, I can imagine both coaches giving almost the same pre-game instructions to their teams, telling them to play tight defense and not worry about going forward, since they don't have to win, just not lose.

Even that's not entirely accurate. One of the two teams COULD lose by as many goals as one could fathom. The other team could lose by 3 and still go through. At the start of the game, the goal differential was actually SEVEN goals, but Syracuse made up 3 on their own against an equally unmotivated opponent.

As for fines or penalties, I'm not at liberty to share the details, but it's expected both teams will handily prevail in their appeals...as they should. But if not, in practicality, it doesn't have any impact on either team or the coaches of either team in future competition.

 

[Truth]

In my last post, I suggested that the coaches and players involved would likely do it differently if this scenario came up again, but to Zoro's posts, would USYS? THE refs? The head of referees? The representatives from Cal South? The tournament officials? ALL of them were there, and ALL of them were asked many times as the game continued to devolve, if what was happening was OK. All of them said it was. Do we think maybe they would give different responses now when asked again? If so, WHAT could they tell the teams they had to do? Other than, "hey, can you please just make it look better," I'm not sure what actual instruction they could give.

How about "Just play the game."

 

[Truth]

Obviously, by now, I disagree.
The competition was the tournament. They were totally within the spirit of winning the National championship - just they didn't.

Not that a cycling analogy will help but...
This was just like a stage in the Tour de France. Riders in stages hold back so they can help another day.

I'm going to use this same logic to tell my kid to go ahead and cheat on his next big test. It's not the actual test results that matter, it's getting the grade that helps you advance in life. Ends justifies the means.

 

[Truth]

Is there anyone on this thread who thinks this was not match fixing? Both teams conspired to produce a result that they wanted, removing actual competition.

I am one of the few people here who actually watched this match and not associated with either team. I think is USYS would stop hiding the evidence, this discussion would be put to rest quickly. The Truth will set you free.

The Syracuse team had a right to complain. They were entitled to a fair competition, and did not get one.

 

[espola]

I'm going to use this same logic to tell my kid to go ahead and cheat on his next big test. It's not the actual test results that matter, it's getting the grade that helps you advance in life. Ends justifies the means.

You're babbling.

 

[Fact]

How about "Just play the game."

How about just give it a rest.

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but it you look at the other thread Truth-Not responded to, "Surf Cup Move" I get the impression he is a Surf insider. It leads me to believe he is the same poster on the old forum that used a different name . . . something "dad."

So, is he really concerned about the game, or the FACT that Surf is no longer the only game in town for girls. With Carlsbad getting a DA , Surf has a lot to be concerned about!