Not Mark, I just wanted to spread the word. I also think it deserves its own thread. I hope everyone puts up the $10 for him too since we all enjoyed his old site.
Youth Soccer Rankings ?
- Thread starter dawson
- Start date
Surf Zombie
GOLD
I just spent the $10. It’s very cool.
The best age is 15. Suck it 16!
So Solar 07 is the best team in the country, per the rankings. But I'm told they lost two YNT camp-level players (one went to IMG, and another was cut for attitude reasons and is now playing Legends this fall...that will fill a big hole on that 07 Legends team). Solar won't be quite as good as in the past.
Texas is pretty far from California isn't it? They moved? To play for Legends??
diamondcoach
SILVER
The ‘05 HB Koge team is ranked 40th? How?
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Sounds like these rankings are not very accurate. I see some third teams ranked higher than the same club's first team.
If you are an 05 team looking to win and get noticed, fill your roster with 07s. That's my takeaway.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Remember, to my knowledge, Mark isn't on this site at all. This info just got posted to this forum because people here were using and interested in youthsoccerrankings.com prior. Any direct questions about this new app should probably be addressed right to him at: support@usasportstatistics.net
Right - that doesn't look like this app yet. In his email blast, he said Android was coming soon, but no idea whether that's days/weeks. I likely want to move over to the Android version and let the Apple version lapse if it comes out before the free trial runs out - but not a big deal either way. It's a simple app, the data is what's most important.
It sounds like it's using a similar setup to the YSL rankings. Teams get defined, then there is a process to grab data from a host of different scoring/tournament back ends (gotsoccer/gotsport/etc) for game info. That game info gets automatically pushed to a team, and there is a bunch of backend data normalization to try and make sure that the right data gets to the right team. There is plenty of room for data corruption here, as teams enter their names differently in various tournaments, teams themselves swap players and lineups over time, and a host of other reasons. But - for each team, there is a list of sources clearly defined at the bottom of the team data, so if it has pulled in incorrect data, the team can have that particular source deleted from their record. And similarly - if data hasn't been loaded to their team, they can search for that data that may have been pulled into the system, and have it assigned to the team. In the past, with YSL - anyone could submit corrections for any team, with no login or other requirements. I'm surprised there wasn't more pollution of the data with people messing with it, but I hadn't really seen that with all the teams I had been following, at least. With this new app - you can make the same requests to add data/delete data, but it's now at least tied to an account, that Mark may have an easier time validating whether someone is making updates in good faith or not.
Now in terms of the ratings themselves, it's as simple as goal difference by game. If a team is ranked 42, and they are playing a team ranked 40, they are expected to win by 2. If they win by more than 2, their score goes up a smidge. If they win by less than 2, their score goes down a smidge. Teams need 3 or 4 games in their data before their first rating shows up. So with this type of ranking, it doesn't really matter if teams are playing up. A 2007 team rated 42 should tie a 2008 team rated 42. And whichever team wins will have their rating upped a smidge, and the team that loses will have their rating go down a smidge. This head-to-head goals rating works quite well within a league / area, but if there are never any tournaments or other avenues for there to be cross-play between teams, leagues, or even states, there can certainly be some drift over different geographies. Nothing that will move the needle by several goals, but certainly some effect. Now - the amount that the rating changes, and how much weight is given to more recent games compared to older games, and when do older game results drop off entirely; that's all secret sauce that I don't believe was publicized for YSL, and hasn't been for this update either.
From personal experience - I have found the rankings to be extremely helpful in terms of what type of game we will expect, and I truly can't remember an instance where the rankings turned out to be entirely wrong. For example, this weekend - we had 3 games. We were expected to win one by 4-1, the second by 4-1, and tie the third 2-2. This meant we could expect to do well in 2, and have a tighter game for the third. Turns out we won the first 8-0, the second 7-1, and for the game we were expected to tie - we won 3-0 when the other team fell apart once scored upon.
That hasn't been my experience. If things seem wonky for a particular team or set of teams, go into that team's specific data that is being pulled in, and confirm that the source data is actually mapped to the correct team in each case. If A beats B, and B beats C, A should be better than C, and should show that in the rankings over time. Anything can happen in a single game - but the results will map to the expectations over time, as the ratings will correspond back to the results - as long as the right data is assigned to the right team.
Right - it's just an app in the app store like any other. Subscription gets paid via whatever payment process you have set up for your apple account.
Right - that doesn't look like this app yet. In his email blast, he said Android was coming soon, but no idea whether that's days/weeks. I likely want to move over to the Android version and let the Apple version lapse if it comes out before the free trial runs out - but not a big deal either way. It's a simple app, the data is what's most important.
It sounds like it's using a similar setup to the YSL rankings. Teams get defined, then there is a process to grab data from a host of different scoring/tournament back ends (gotsoccer/gotsport/etc) for game info. That game info gets automatically pushed to a team, and there is a bunch of backend data normalization to try and make sure that the right data gets to the right team. There is plenty of room for data corruption here, as teams enter their names differently in various tournaments, teams themselves swap players and lineups over time, and a host of other reasons. But - for each team, there is a list of sources clearly defined at the bottom of the team data, so if it has pulled in incorrect data, the team can have that particular source deleted from their record. And similarly - if data hasn't been loaded to their team, they can search for that data that may have been pulled into the system, and have it assigned to the team. In the past, with YSL - anyone could submit corrections for any team, with no login or other requirements. I'm surprised there wasn't more pollution of the data with people messing with it, but I hadn't really seen that with all the teams I had been following, at least. With this new app - you can make the same requests to add data/delete data, but it's now at least tied to an account, that Mark may have an easier time validating whether someone is making updates in good faith or not.
Now in terms of the ratings themselves, it's as simple as goal difference by game. If a team is ranked 42, and they are playing a team ranked 40, they are expected to win by 2. If they win by more than 2, their score goes up a smidge. If they win by less than 2, their score goes down a smidge. Teams need 3 or 4 games in their data before their first rating shows up. So with this type of ranking, it doesn't really matter if teams are playing up. A 2007 team rated 42 should tie a 2008 team rated 42. And whichever team wins will have their rating upped a smidge, and the team that loses will have their rating go down a smidge. This head-to-head goals rating works quite well within a league / area, but if there are never any tournaments or other avenues for there to be cross-play between teams, leagues, or even states, there can certainly be some drift over different geographies. Nothing that will move the needle by several goals, but certainly some effect. Now - the amount that the rating changes, and how much weight is given to more recent games compared to older games, and when do older game results drop off entirely; that's all secret sauce that I don't believe was publicized for YSL, and hasn't been for this update either.
From personal experience - I have found the rankings to be extremely helpful in terms of what type of game we will expect, and I truly can't remember an instance where the rankings turned out to be entirely wrong. For example, this weekend - we had 3 games. We were expected to win one by 4-1, the second by 4-1, and tie the third 2-2. This meant we could expect to do well in 2, and have a tighter game for the third. Turns out we won the first 8-0, the second 7-1, and for the game we were expected to tie - we won 3-0 when the other team fell apart once scored upon.
That hasn't been my experience. If things seem wonky for a particular team or set of teams, go into that team's specific data that is being pulled in, and confirm that the source data is actually mapped to the correct team in each case. If A beats B, and B beats C, A should be better than C, and should show that in the rankings over time. Anything can happen in a single game - but the results will map to the expectations over time, as the ratings will correspond back to the results - as long as the right data is assigned to the right team.
Right - it's just an app in the app store like any other. Subscription gets paid via whatever payment process you have set up for your apple account.
Agreed. These don't appear to be as accurate as YSR were. I only really know 2 age groups, and neither seem very accurate for Socal teams.
It is the same program as YSR, with Mark, same guy. I think with the last few seasons being odd with Covid and so many teams changing over the last couple years, it is going to take some time to sort out. But it is way way better than any other ranking program and I have found it to be pretty accurate. So much better than Got Soccer Ranking, those are ridiculous
SoulTrain
BRONZE
As someone who misses YSR, the app is a great addition and, as others have said, $10 a year for the PRO version is a bargain. For those talking about the accuracy, as more data comes in, the better it will get. Mark is also super responsive so if you see something that needs to be fixed, there is an easy tab on the app to send an email inquiry. If you fix inaccuracies with your team and merge teams if needed you'll make the app better for everyone. Without YSR, bracketing at tournaments this year suffered, I know tournament directors everywhere will love having a factual-based ranking system back in place. Pay the $10, sign up for PRO, keep small and innovative businesses thriving!
Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
For the love of god, why do coaches enter the teams into tournaments with different names?
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
I paid $10 and surprised to see how up to date it was. Don’t get caught up on the rankings accuracy. Look at the millions spent on the bcs computations and yet people still complain. Just saying
Code
GOLD
Probably because they do not want to be associated with the results. If things go well, they claim it; goes bad, they hide it. The higher performing teams are usually consistent in identifing the team and coach clearly. I've noticed a trend that a lot of GA and E64 teams leave their league designation off the team names at the smaller, local tournaments. Leaves everyone wondering if it's the clubs GA team? The NPL team, Flight 1??? Then there is the affiliates rabbit hole. Sometimes they let you know there is a distinction, other times, there are 6 "Legends" or "Rebels" teams in one age group bracket and you can't tell where any of them are from.
