How long will those that believe in the "Science" finally give in and say they were wrong? Pride is getting in the way of doing the right thing for so many of the decision makers. Sad
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
How long will those that believe in the "Science" finally give in and say they were wrong? Pride is getting in the way of doing the right thing for so many of the decision makers. Sad
Let me know when your risk analysis includes hospitalizations, community spread, and non-fatal long term effects.
As it stands, you are ignoring the claimed benefits of k-12 anti-covid policies, at the same time you accuse others of being bad at cost/benefit analysis.
Making a stew?
met61
GOLD
Imagine spending time doing this...
met61
GOLD
Again...they always do what they accuse others of doing.
met61
GOLD
... it'll be awhile, if ever, they haven't even gotten to the race card yet
Desert Hound
DA
Well we know the hospitalizations have not been an issue AT ALL. Well documented.
We also know that they do not spread much compared to adults. This has been known for a long time and documented. We have data from our schools, schools in Europe, etc.
In terms of long term affects we don't know what they are for the vaxx either. What we do know is know that as a group the virus has to date not impacted them at all.
Your idea is well we dont know if there are long term affects of the vaxx for young people BUT we should give it to them because we dont know if the FEW who actually get sick will have long term covid affects. That isn't a rational / logical position.
There's the math too. If everyone is pretty much guaranteed to get it that means everyone including kids have to undertake (in their case a small) risk of illness, hospitalization, long covid. But by vaccinating you are adding another risk on top of the one folks are guaranteed to get. Depending on how efficient the vaccines really are in stopping illness, it could be as much as a double risk we are putting the kids through.
It's not pride when their purposely lying to us on purpose. Dad and the others are just trying to pro long their impending Karma that is coming for those who lie and cheat on purpose. Look at all [D] retiring? Look at all these, triple jabbed and double booster boys waving the white flag of surrender and saying, "I tested positive for Covid." That's their way of eating crow and bowing out peacefully. Some will go down to the very end and then beg for forgiveness.
Thank God for the Mother Truckers. I must say I am disappointed with Mr. Rich, Mr. Snob, Mr. Fence Sitter who just let others get fired and force kids to wear a mask..
What right do you have to tell me what my argument is?
I do not need your “help” telling me what my idea is.
You have an Israeli study that puts myocarditis risk at one per 12,361.
The risk of death, by your numbers, is one per 93,500. (it’s actually higher, since not all 70 million kids have gotten covid).
This is not, to my eye, the slam dunk you claim it is. You are essentially comparing 93 short hospital stays against 12 deaths. And you are concluding that the deaths are obviously the smaller issue.
To me, it’s not obvious at all, in either direction.
My kid got covid omicron, and I am fine.
I only got my first shot last July. Then developed such huge discomfort on my arm. It has gotten better but still feel it a bit.
Not sure if I should proceed with my 2nd dose. I don't want to reexperience that issue with my arm. Besides, by the time I am ready for it, this whole thing may be over.
Any advice?
I am leaning to just skipping this thing now that the highest risk member of my household who is out a lot have had covid and it did't impact me.
btw, not saying there is anything wrong with the vaccine. the nurse who gave that shot to me may have used a needle that is too long. may have hit my nerve etc. etc. and that is what is causing the soreness many many many months later. and yes, i have seen doctors for it and no one figured out why yet. and they prefer to treat it separately as a symtom rather than to tie it to the vaccine.
I only got my first shot last July. Then developed such huge discomfort on my arm. It has gotten better but still feel it a bit.
Not sure if I should proceed with my 2nd dose. I don't want to reexperience that issue with my arm. Besides, by the time I am ready for it, this whole thing may be over.
Any advice?
I am leaning to just skipping this thing now that the highest risk member of my household who is out a lot have had covid and it did't impact me.
btw, not saying there is anything wrong with the vaccine. the nurse who gave that shot to me may have used a needle that is too long. may have hit my nerve etc. etc. and that is what is causing the soreness many many many months later. and yes, i have seen doctors for it and no one figured out why yet. and they prefer to treat it separately as a symtom rather than to tie it to the vaccine.
what-happened
GOLD
Why isn't it obvious that there isn't a benefit to a healthy child? The data is overwhelming, so much that most develped countries are taking a completly different approach than we are, from dosing to masking, etc. There are other, riskier things to the healthy U14 crowd than covid. It appears to me that the hangup with most parents and vaccines are mandates. CA is the leading nanny state. Let parents make that choice, especially in light of other public health issues.
5-14 year olds are more likely to die of motor vehicle accidents (10x), suicide(6.5x), homicide (5x), and drug OD (1x). Those rates go higher (except for moto vehicle accidents) for 15-24 yr olds.
Omicron has changed the calculus for many things. Strategies need to adjust as needed. We are far removed from APR 2020.
Object here. You know it's not just a hospital stay. It involves a recuperation period for quite a long time when heavy athletics is not advised. It's possible the person may not be able to participate in high end athletics (and we don't know if the various soccer and other sports problems are either tied to myocarditis in the virus or athletics). It could also involve permanent heart injury or lead to other heart conditions years down the line. For someone trotting out long COVID, you seem remarkable unconcerned by this.
Yeah, you can argue that COVID virus carries the same risk but there's some evidence floating around that (particularly with moderna) the vaccine risk may be more substantial
And if transmission isn't stopped by the vaccine, you are also subjecting to them to two (instead of just 1 natural infection) risk events.
Side editorial here: as this continues to go on, you increasingly seem to be lashing out and/or losing your temper.
You should talk to your doctor since the answer in part may depend on your risk profile and what the doctor thinks actually happened to your arm.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Those damn Scandinavian anti-vaxxers! Get 'em, Webster.
From your article:
”All of the cases were clinically mild, and the adolescents were hospitalized for an average of three days. None were readmitted during 30 days of follow-up.”
That is considerably less severe than death- even if the person has to quit sports as a result.
Do not read this as support or opposition to school vaccine requirements. I just think you have not made the case that the heart inflammation risk outweighs the risk to the student. Not a slam dunk in either direction, which may be why different countries are going in different directions.
Again basic math. If the vaccine is no where near 100 effective in blocking risk of infection (even if say we give you the benefit of the doubt and say fifty percent, which so far no data seems to support), by vaccinating you are exposing students to two potential myocarditis risks (one from the vaccine and one from the infection). The only way this works out to make sense is if the vaccine is good at reducing myocarditis in natural infection and the risk from vaccination is less than myocarditis risk naturally....so far the data doesn't support that....and it certainly 100 percent doesn't support that for boosters beyond the initial shot, which is why many more countries are reluctant to recommend boosters for this age group.
what-happened
GOLD
The child argument is an interesting on. You are right, as more data comes out (myocarditis from vaccine/infectinos) the more polarizing it becomes. Even now, as data from vaccine induced inflammation is starting to be really assessed, it's pointing in the direction of less harm than more harm. The covid infected data has always been what way...less harm for healthy kids. The issue now is becoming more political and ethical.
Medium and long-term safety data about vaccines just isn't available. Children and young people have a remaining life expectancy of 55 to 80 years. Unknown harmful long-term effects are far more consequential for the young than for the elderly. This is where the mandates fall apart. Telling people to vaccinate their Ulittle with a unnaproved vaccine just doesn't make sense, especially now. IT's crazy talk really. And with states trying to pass legislation that makes it legal for organizations to provide medical care for a minor without parental consent.... That's even more ludicrous. Imagine living in that world. The argument to vaccinate kids to protect adults is silly as well and borderline unethical.
If more kids were suffering from severe disease then of course things would be different.