Vaccine

Desert Hound said:
Just a thought or comment.

So the vaxx mandate is being done because the virus is bad and needs to be stopped.

The mandate applies to employers with more than 100 employees.

Are employers with less than 100 people not at risk of the virus?

Why mandate it for one group of companies and not the other?
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It's so that he can make the argument it's valid under the interstate commerce clause. Presumably, the argument goes, companies with 100 employees are large enough to impact, directly or indirectly, interstate commerce where a mom and pop diner of 5 employees might not. Not passing on the merits of the argument....just why it's being done that way.

That's the cliff notes version. The real in depth meat has to do with the commerce clause, Congressional powers delegation, the OSHA statute and chevron.
 
Grace T. said:
It's so that he can make the argument it's valid under the interstate commerce clause. Presumably, the argument goes, companies with 100 employees are large enough to impact, directly or indirectly, interstate commerce where a mom and pop diner of 5 employees might not. Not passing on the merits of the argument....just why it's being done that way.

That's the cliff notes version. The real in depth meat has to do with the commerce clause, Congressional powers delegation, the OSHA statute and chevron.
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Mom and pop diner for the most part is no more Grace T. I was at very popular eat places in Aliso Viejo. All the mom and pops are SOL and now OB. The corporates and sell outs in the franchise big box biz are still open and treat most customers like shit. The mom and pop kindness and home cooking from far away places have been attacked and are on fire. You did see the riots last year, right Grace T? WTF up!!!
 
crush said:
Mom and pop diner for the most part is no more Grace T. I was at very popular eat places in Aliso Viejo. All the mom and pops are SOL and now OB. The corporates and sell outs in the franchise big box biz are still open and treat most customers like shit. The mom and pop kindness and home cooking from far away places have been attacked and are on fire. You did see the riots last year, right Grace T? WTF up!!!
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Remember remember the 5th of November
The gunpowder treason and plot
I know of no reason
Why the gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
Oh! Two silver bullets now.
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Like I said, the difference is this one is Pfizer...bull in a China shop when it comes to development, regulatory control, approvals, manufacturing and distribution.

Big Pharma is like Squid Games (people have been bending over backwards saying it's an analogy for capitalism, for pre government society, for the male dominated patriarchy...it's not....it's an analogy for Big Pharma). There's a pot of money there and Pfizer is the business executive guy that won't let anything stand in his way to get there.
 
MicPaPa said:
There you have it, all this word count on personality and not a mention of policy. You've made my point perfectly. Although, I don't know any free Men, when talking about other men, are so obsessed with popularity contests and use descriptions like "spoiled child" and "special kind of scary"..... Sounds a little wife-dominant puppeting to me.

Again, congrats on achieving a status where gas and food prices along with reckless foreign policy decisions don't hit home. But let's face it, this doesn't change my point that your wife probably mandated she fill out your mail-in ballot while you submissively massaged her bunions.
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I'd step back for a moment and look at reality. Had Trump not been an ahole at times there is a good chance Trump would still be President. So character does matter. Now you can blame that on voters who are "unmanly" are easily offended, or only care about personality, the media, etc. However, Trump did nothing to help himself with certain unnecessary comments. Yes, the media had it out for him, but why make their job easier?

One irony when you talk about toughness is Trump himself. He is one of the thinnest skinned, easily offended individuals around. I think you might mistake his retaliatory insults as toughness, when in fact it is the opposite. Much of his divisive rhetoric came as a result of him being thin-skinned. You notice that Trump never said these insults to anyone's face....typically only when he had a favorable audience. I believe that would fall under the category of "passive/aggressive". I know the common belief is that Trump is a narcissist. I disagree. I think he has low self esteem that he tries to compensate for by being an a-hole. I could be wrong here, but I've been around a number of successful people that would often raise themselves up by knocking others down.

In defense of Trump, he had no tolerance for bureaucracy. So he was brutal on bureaucrats, which I believe was warranted. Anyone who has ever run a business, knows bureaucracy is the biggest obstacle to progress. Trump was also brilliant with the use of leverage (in great contrast to Obama), however, this was often portrayed as bullying by the media, and in some cases it did border on bullying.

Sorry, but you can't lay this all at the doorstep of personality voters. Trump had very good policies, great compared to Obama and Biden, but he is not the prophet you make him out to be.

Nikki Haley 2024 :)
 
watfly said:
. I could be wrong here, but I've been around a number of successful people that would often raise themselves up by knocking others down.
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Jordan Peterson's entire thesis about hyper successful people centers on that they are just overly geared towards being superdominant, obsessive and aggressive and therefore they have no qualms to knocking down others. It doesn't apply to certain people who find themselves thrust there by happenstance (like the actor suddenly "discovered" working in the drugs store, or the rare politician that runs for conviction and just lucks out like the truck driver), but he argues it applies to most of he highest performers in the arts, sports, politics and most especially business. They, for the most part, also tend to really be broken individuals as a result (as pointed out by Squid Games).
 
Grace T. said:
Jordan Peterson's entire thesis about hyper successful people centers on that they are just overly geared towards being superdominant, obsessive and aggressive and therefore they have no qualms to knocking down others. It doesn't apply to certain people who find themselves thrust there by happenstance (like the actor suddenly "discovered" working in the drugs store, or the rare politician that runs for conviction and just lucks out like the truck driver), but he argues it applies to most of he highest performers in the arts, sports, politics and most especially business. They, for the most part, also tend to really be broken individuals as a result (as pointed out by Squid Games).
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I'm way out of my league here, and this is purely speculative, but I get the impression that he was always trying to impress his father, or be greater than him.
 
Grace T. said:
It's so that he can make the argument it's valid under the interstate commerce clause. Presumably, the argument goes, companies with 100 employees are large enough to impact, directly or indirectly, interstate commerce where a mom and pop diner of 5 employees might not. Not passing on the merits of the argument....just why it's being done that way.

That's the cliff notes version. The real in depth meat has to do with the commerce clause, Congressional powers delegation, the OSHA statute and chevron.
Click to expand...

Lord almighty, you are the worst fake lawyer ever. If they selected 100+ as the threshold minimum because anything less may not adequately impact interstate commerce, can you explain to me WTF OSHA applies to companies with 10 or more employees? Why the FLSA applies to any employee who regularly uses the freakin' telephone or contributes to making anything that will be sent out of state? Why the janitor in a building where goods are produced for shipment out of state is covered, even if they aren't employed by the company making them? Why buying pencils through Amazon makes you subject to federal regulation under the ICC? Have you ever heard of Ollie's BBQ, like every single first year law student in America?

The reason it selected 100+ is addressed in the ETS itself, which any real lawyer would have read before spewing this utter nonsense. Specifically, it is because "OSHA is confident that employers with 100 or more employees have the administrative capacity to implement the standard's requirements promptly, but is less confident that smaller employers can do so without undue disruption." The standard specifically states that it anticipates more guidance in the future for small employers.

God you are so clueless for someone who claims to be a "constitutional scholar". Have you ever held paying job as a lawyer? Did you ever pass the bar?
 
LAUSD has started to remove student athletes from rosters who do not have vax


So are LA county clubs going to care or enforce anything? Or should they?

The fast food industry...in and out seems like they are taking a pass on this.
 
lafalafa said:
LAUSD has started to remove student athletes from rosters who do not have vax


So are LA county clubs going to care or enforce anything? Or should they?

The fast food industry...in and out seems like they are taking a pass on this.
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Meanwhile the vaccinated, fat kid with weight induced asthma playing video games all day is probably more likely to catch and spread Covid to other students.

It's anyone's guess what LA County clubs will do, but they could come under pressure from schools or municipalities that provide their fields to enforce vaccination requirements.

If LA clubs are going to drop unvaccinated kids, I hope they do it soon because we have games coming up against LAG and LAFC. (I jest of course).
 
lafalafa said:
LAUSD has started to remove student athletes from rosters who do not have vax


So are LA county clubs going to care or enforce anything? Or should they?

The fast food industry...in and out seems like they are taking a pass on this.
Click to expand...

The fight right now in schools is all about the basketball season. It's no wonder this is coming at the end of football season. The assumption is we will have a winter wave and they are trying to get it to the place where they can spare the season for an indoor sport since the assumption is that LA County Health will shut it down if cases start to rise.

On the private school school end, Harvard Westlake and some of the others tried to push at the beginning of the year to mandate it for the private schools in LA (or they wouldn't play the non-vaxxed teams). Notably Oaks and some of the Catholic schools said no so the movement feel apart. It led to the bizarre situation where to go on campus parents from the team vaxxed schools need to be vaxxed but visiting school parents from other schools don't need to be vaxxed. Now that the LA Public Schools are onboard, they are renewing the push to have it required from private school athletes as well. Thats left the holdouts (who are also fighting the state mandate for when it kicks in) to make contingency plans for a separate league in the event their competition refuses to play.
 
Grace T. said:
They really would prefer it if we mask forever to prevent the flu and common cold.....80% is funny....I don't even think dad4 is still at 80%.....even the vaccines with waning over time aren't at 80%...if that were true we'd be back to masks are more effective than vaccines.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456645731691925518
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I kind of stopped estimating once it was clear that masks help, and we were only quibbling over how much. For me, that is the end of the “should I wear a mask” argument. Wearing a mask reduces overall covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Therefore we should all wear them.

If you want to ask “how much do masks and vaccines help”, then you are deep into mathematical modeling and differential equations. Or, more to the point, NIH and CDC are deep into mathematical modeling. People here just post conclusions without ever acquiring the necessary background or doing the numeric work.

After all, actually running the numbers is orders of magnitude more difficult than just running your mouth.
 
Grace T. said:
The fight right now in schools is all about the basketball season. It's no wonder this is coming at the end of football season. The assumption is we will have a winter wave and they are trying to get it to the place where they can spare the season for an indoor sport since the assumption is that LA County Health will shut it down if cases start to rise.

On the private school school end, Harvard Westlake and some of the others tried to push at the beginning of the year to mandate it for the private schools in LA (or they wouldn't play the non-vaxxed teams). Notably Oaks and some of the Catholic schools said no so the movement feel apart. It led to the bizarre situation where to go on campus parents from the team vaxxed schools need to be vaxxed but visiting school parents from other schools don't need to be vaxxed. Now that the LA Public Schools are onboard, they are renewing the push to have it required from private school athletes as well. Thats left the holdouts (who are also fighting the state mandate for when it kicks in) to make contingency plans for a separate league in the event their competition refuses to play.
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Fortunately, San Diego and my daughters high school district aren't implementing LA type vaccination protocols. Right now out of 17,058 students and 13 schools, 15 kids from 7 schools have Covid. The vaccination rate in our area appears to be in the low 70% range. 73% specifically for our schools zip code.
 
GoldenGate said:
Lord almighty, you are the worst fake lawyer ever. If they selected 100+ as the threshold minimum because anything less may not adequately impact interstate commerce, can you explain to me WTF OSHA applies to companies with 10 or more employees? Why the FLSA applies to any employee who regularly uses the freakin' telephone or contributes to making anything that will be sent out of state? Why the janitor in a building where goods are produced for shipment out of state is covered, even if they aren't employed by the company making them? Why buying pencils through Amazon makes you subject to federal regulation under the ICC? Have you ever heard of Ollie's BBQ, like every single first year law student in America?

The reason it selected 100+ is addressed in the ETS itself, which any real lawyer would have read before spewing this utter nonsense. Specifically, it is because "OSHA is confident that employers with 100 or more employees have the administrative capacity to implement the standard's requirements promptly, but is less confident that smaller employers can do so without undue disruption." The standard specifically states that it anticipates more guidance in the future for small employers.

God you are so clueless for someone who claims to be a "constitutional scholar". Have you ever held paying job as a lawyer? Did you ever pass the bar?
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You don't happen to be the attorney for the armorer on that Alec Baldwin movie do you? Just a gut instinct I have.
 
dad4 said:
I kind of stopped estimating once it was clear that masks help, and we were only quibbling over how much. For me, that is the end of the “should I wear a mask” argument. Wearing a mask reduces overall covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Therefore we should all wear them.

If you want to ask “how much do masks and vaccines help”, then you are deep into mathematical modeling and differential equations. Or, more to the point, NIH and CDC are deep into mathematical modeling. People here just post conclusions without ever acquiring the necessary background or doing the numeric work.

After all, actually running the numbers is orders of magnitude more difficult than just running your mouth.
Click to expand...

It's not 80%. You don't need a complex model or math to know it's not 80%. Even you weren't at 80% at your last positions. Math helps determine precision. It doesn't help justify fantasies.

It's also a horrible message to be implying mask forever when they are trying to convince people to vaxx the kids. What's worse is it may give people false confidence that they don't need to vaxx if the masks are 80% effective.

For you even 5% is the end of the argument because you never do a cost/benefit analysis. There are costs, particularly when it comes to masking kids. Yesterday I was over the lunch hour on a walk with the dog I went to the bank a couple blocks down on Ventura Blvd. Counted 17 masks on my side of the street. So don't say there isn't any cost. Remember when we had the freak outs about plastic bags and plastic straws? Where the freak out now????
 
Grace T. said:
It's not 80%. You don't need a complex model or math to know it's not 80%. Even you weren't at 80% at your last positions. Math helps determine precision. It doesn't help justify fantasies.

It's also a horrible message to be implying mask forever when they are trying to convince people to vaxx the kids. What's worse is it may give people false confidence that they don't need to vaxx if the masks are 80% effective.

For you even 5% is the end of the argument because you never do a cost/benefit analysis. There are costs, particularly when it comes to masking kids. Yesterday I was over the lunch hour on a walk with the dog I went to the bank a couple blocks down on Ventura Blvd. Counted 17 masks on my side of the street. So don't say there isn't any cost. Remember when we had the freak outs about plastic bags and plastic straws? Where the freak out now????
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p.s. reason I count them is because the dog always tries to eat them. It's how many times I have to stop to tell him no. Glad the crazy frenchman wasn't there to tell me I had to let the stupid dog eat the stupid mask. It's gross.
 
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