Vaccine

Grace T. said:
The numbers arent as high at 10%. At 10% we’d be seeing a wave of news stories and parent protests. That’s just fear mongering. The upper bound all ages for all children seems to be 2% but that includes things like persistent cough (im at 8 weeks with a cough long rsv). But that doesn’t include, as you say, what we really care about which is debilitating covid for a year or more. At this point however it’s been more than a year with prime so the burden of proof really is on the lockdown forever school at this point.
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These were studies from Italy, the UK and Russia. The numbers cannot be firm at this point either for many reasons, including that they are dealing with a different variant, and the time scales can differ - for obvious reasons too. I'm not fear mongering, just bringing up a real part of the situation that needs to be kept in mind.
 
Roadrunner said:
These were studies from Italy, the UK and Russia. The numbers cannot be firm at this point either for many reasons, including that they are dealing with a different variant, and the time scales can differ - for obvious reasons too. I'm not fear mongering, just bringing up a real part of the situation that needs to be kept in mind.
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But policy is made on data. Not on the basis that it's scary or "think of the children". I agree it's an important question. I agree it's the key question for determining which approach (UK v. Israel) is the correct one. I agree it needs to be studied, ASAP. But right now, the data isn't there to support the notion that long COVID is actually a significant problem in children (the other relevant question being whether long COVID is a significant factor in vaccinated adults). If this data isn't presented soon, other factors (like politics) will force the choice. If you are saying it's difficult/nearly impossible to get that data, particularly given the limited time period that has passed, well then politics in the end will decide it.
 
dad4 said:
Will Hound every stop ignoring whether school transmission leads to added community spread?

Trick question. No he won’t.
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If you believe 90% is the number we need for herd immunity, and if vaccine immunity reduces over time, you'd want community spread (at least among the vaccinated). That's different than Roadrunner's argument which is unvaccinated children may suffer long term side effect, notwithstanding low deaths, so we don't want to hit that 90% number.
 
Lady asks cop to give her 6 feet because he is unmasked. Cop says "I don't need a mask because <unintelligible>"


She needed a bigger dog.
 
espola said:
Lady asks cop to give her 6 feet because he is unmasked. Cop says "I don't need a mask because <unintelligible>"


She needed a bigger dog.
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1. At least the doggo tried to defend her. More than I can probably say for my doggo.
2. Looks like he says because "we're outside".
3. That's the stupid thing about mask rules. If the police officer does in fact have COVID and is screaming at her in her face, or is handling her, she can totally can get COVID from him, outdoors or indoors from that close contact. The question then becomes would wearing a mask have given the lady any protection, and my question back would be what type of mask.
4. It's an illustration of what flows from mask rules. You have "normal" and you have varying degrees of "anxious". There isn't some middle area on the dial. You tell people they aren't safe and need to mask (anywhere) and you get this.
 
Grace T. said:
But policy is made on data. Not on the basis that it's scary or "think of the children". I agree it's an important question. I agree it's the key question for determining which approach (UK v. Israel) is the correct one. I agree it needs to be studied, ASAP. But right now, the data isn't there to support the notion that long COVID is actually a significant problem in children (the other relevant question being whether long COVID is a significant factor in vaccinated adults). If this data isn't presented soon, other factors (like politics) will force the choice. If you are saying it's difficult/nearly impossible to get that data, particularly given the limited time period that has passed, well then politics in the end will decide it.
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My impression of those most likely to say "think of the children" are those who claim that being masked in school somehow ruins their childhood.
 
Grace T. said:
If you believe 90% is the number we need for herd immunity, and if vaccine immunity reduces over time, you'd want community spread (at least among the vaccinated). That's different than Roadrunner's argument which is unvaccinated children may suffer long term side effect, notwithstanding low deaths, so we don't want to hit that 90% number.
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Why would I want community spread? We have every reason to believe that a vaccinated population with masks does not grow Delta.

CDC estimates that about 2.7% of the population is immunocompromised in some way. That sounds high, but start counting. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, people with auto immune diseases, and so on... That is a lot of people who are difficult or impossible to vaccinate. You think I’d want to put them at risk just to pander to some anti-vax conspiracy theory? Heck no. Just get your shots.
 
Grace T. said:
1. At least the doggo tried to defend her. More than I can probably say for my doggo.
2. Looks like he says because "we're outside".
3. That's the stupid thing about mask rules. If the police officer does in fact have COVID and is screaming at her in her face, or is handling her, she can totally can get COVID from him, outdoors or indoors from that close contact. The question then becomes would wearing a mask have given the lady any protection, and my question back would be what type of mask.
4. It's an illustration of what flows from mask rules. You have "normal" and you have varying degrees of "anxious". There isn't some middle area on the dial. You tell people they aren't safe and need to mask (anywhere) and you get this.
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You don't need a mask when you are outside as long as you respect the 2-meter rule, as I understand it. Standards may be different in Chicago.

The cop obviously needs to be retrained since at no time In this encounter do we hear him say "Stop resisting".
 
dad4 said:
Why would I want community spread? We have every reason to believe that a vaccinated population with masks does not grow Delta.

CDC estimates that about 2.7% of the population is immunocompromised in some way. That sounds high, but start counting. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, people with auto immune diseases, and so on... That is a lot of people who are difficult or impossible to vaccinate. You think I’d want to put them at risk just to pander to some anti-vax conspiracy theory? Heck no. Just get your shots.
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That's hilarious. See Israel.

See also my personal case study: 11 participants in an outdoor BBQ. All had COVID or were fully vaxxed. Wore masks except while eating. The 3 non vaxxed with COVID did not come down with COVID again despite testing and despite taking in patient zero. Patient zero was fully vaxxed and a bit of a COVID paranoid who always wore an N95 and probably came down with it at her job. 4 of the 6 vaxxed people came down with COVID, 1 seriously, 1 asymptomatic, 2 with the sniffles.

Absolutely get your vax. The question, though, is whether we are going to keep vaxxing people with boosters or just have them catch it and go with natural immunity. If the later, you want community spread while vaccine immunity, which seems to decline with time, is high.
 
espola said:
You don't need a mask when you are outside as long as you respect the 2-meter rule, as I understand it. Standards may be different in Chicago.

The cop obviously needs to be retrained since at no time In this encounter do we hear him say "Stop resisting".
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But he wasn't respecting the 2 m rule, which is what set off the incident
 
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