Vaccine

[dad4]

They even used the words eliminate or control….at various times claiming (before that message switches to vaxxing) if everyone wears one we can control/eliminate in x weeks. Even the recent mask studies have admitted they were oversold. A more proper message at the start of this would have been: hey they help a little to reduce cases particular indoors…they won’t protect you but wearing a mask might help that essential worker who needs to work. The dilemma now is that the messaging is hard to do without admitting the vaccine isn’t all that they had hoped. To claim its misinformation the health authorities did and continue to do this is out and out lying.

They were trying to explain that reducing transmissibility lowers the threshold for herd immunity. If you misunderstand what that sentence means, you’re going to feel lied to.

They did start with talking about reducing transmission. They got millions of idiots who thought they were scientists posting and reposting youtube videos with chain link fences and cans of WD40. You were among them, and you all did real damage to public health.

You cant complain that the message was muddled if you were out there shouting over it.

 

[Grace T.]

They were trying to explain that reducing transmissibility lowers the threshold for herd immunity. If you misunderstand what that sentence means, you’re going to feel lied to.

They did start with talking about reducing transmission. They got millions of idiots who thought they were scientists posting and reposting youtube videos with chain link fences and cans of WD40. You were among them, and you all did real damage to public health.

You cant complain that the message was muddled if you were out there shouting over it.

You are trying to explain away bad messaging with handwaiving. The fact you can’t accept the messaging was bad (and are blaming the critics of the messaging even when the recent mask studies have said mea cupla) should serve as a check on you for how far down the religion rabbit hole you actually are.

 

[Grace T.]

Very true. I would add that it would have really helped if the virus was only spread by symptomatic people, and it was clear that their symptoms were attributable to the virus. If we had great testing (easy, accessible,fast) and contract tracing in place, it would be another way people to know whether they were likely to spread the virus. With delta's ability to spread so readily, it can be difficult to get ahead of the infections.

I note we still don’t know how much of a problem asymptomatic spread really is. There has yet for example to be a really good case study on it and most of the case studies are in the low symptomatic category like this teacher. The real problem may be with people who think “it’s allergies” or a cold and go out on public with low symptoms. And if asymptomatic spread is truly a threat, the chances of the current vaccines controlling this are next to zero because the viral loads there in a symptomatic person has are likely to be higher than a completely asymptomatic person. Finally if the uk/Denmark approach is correct it really shouldn’t matter at this point

 

[espola]

They even used the words eliminate or control….at various times claiming (before that message switches to vaxxing) if everyone wears one we can control/eliminate in x weeks. Even the recent mask studies have admitted they were oversold. A more proper message at the start of this would have been: hey they help a little to reduce cases particular indoors…they won’t protect you but wearing a mask might help that essential worker who needs to work. The dilemma now is that the messaging is hard to do without admitting the vaccine isn’t all that they had hoped. To claim its misinformation the health authorities did and continue to do this is out and out lying.

Strawman.

 

[Grace T.]

Strawman.

I didn’t build that straw man. We on team reality didn’t come up with the messaging. The fact that team panic can’t even admit “yeah maybe the messaging was oversold” just shows how far the rabbit hole you guys are. If we can’t agree on that, when it just so obviously was the case, just shows we aren’t having a conversation about the science but just good old fashioned religion.

Here’s the other thing that’s got me going “hmmm”. For the longest time team panic was cowed here. Eotl was driven from the field. Gk mom no where to be seen. He of many aliases stopped doing aliases. It was basically just dad and the 2 trolls particularly around June when we thought, and dad even said, it would be over in a couple weeks. But now the aliases are back and we. Have a bunch of newbies sympathetic to team panic and even Mac Dre is lurking about. Go figure.

 

[crush]

You are trying to explain away bad messaging with handwaiving. The fact you can’t accept the messaging was bad (and are blaming the critics of the messaging even when the recent mask studies have said mea cupla) should serve as a check on you for how far down the religion rabbit hole you actually are.

Alice, are you ready?

 

[crush]

I didn’t build that straw man. We on team reality didn’t come up with the messaging. The fact that team panic can’t even admit “yeah maybe the messaging was oversold” just shows how far the rabbit hole you guys are. If we can’t agree on that, when it just so obviously was the case, just shows we aren’t having a conversation about the science but just good old fashioned religion.

Here’s the other thing that’s got me going “hmmm”. For the longest time team panic was cowed here. Eotl was driven from the field. Gk mom no where to be seen. He of many aliases stopped doing aliases. It was basically just dad and the 2 trolls particularly around June when we thought, and dad even said, it would be over in a couple weeks. But now the aliases are back and we. Have a bunch of newbies sympathetic to team panic and even Mac Dre is lurking about. Go figure.

Great work Grace. Your finally catching on. Just wait until the mask come off the avatars, you will be shocked and i will not. This was a three year sting operation that you will trip out on.

 

[espola]

I didn’t build that straw man. We on team reality didn’t come up with the messaging. The fact that team panic can’t even admit “yeah maybe the messaging was oversold” just shows how far the rabbit hole you guys are. If we can’t agree on that, when it just so obviously was the case, just shows we aren’t having a conversation about the science but just good old fashioned religion.

Here’s the other thing that’s got me going “hmmm”. For the longest time team panic was cowed here. Eotl was driven from the field. Gk mom no where to be seen. He of many aliases stopped doing aliases. It was basically just dad and the 2 trolls particularly around June when we thought, and dad even said, it would be over in a couple weeks. But now the aliases are back and we. Have a bunch of newbies sympathetic to team panic and even Mac Dre is lurking about. Go figure.

"Team panic"? Strawman.

You're pathetic.

 

[watfly]

With delta's ability to spread so readily, it can be difficult to get ahead of the infections.

And that is the great myth that is unfortunately driving policy. You can't get ahead of the infections, you can't eliminate the virus, you can only hope to mitigate it. The cost in trying to eliminate the virus far outweighs any benefit (see lockdowns). Blanket policies that throw the healthy in with the sick, diminish the sicks's responsibility for the transmission. Studies have shown that asymptomatics only contribute to 17% to transmissions. Do you really want the sick that are spreading 83% of the cases thinking masks provide significant protection? 100% no, and the sick teacher spreading it to her students is Exhibit A. How much promotion of condoms would we see if they only filtered out 50% of guys' little swimmers? Let's be brutally honest about masks, and for F' sakes stop mandating them for children.

 

[Grace T.]

"Team panic"? Strawman.

You're pathetic.

You are a troll, an idiot and a liar

 

[Grace T.]

And that is the great myth that is unfortunately driving policy. You can't get ahead of the infections, you can't eliminate the virus, you can only hope to mitigate it. The cost in trying to eliminate the virus far outweighs any benefit (see lockdowns). Blanket policies that throw the healthy in with the sick, diminish the sicks's responsibility for the transmission. Studies have shown that asymptomatics only contribute to 17% to transmissions. Do you really want the sick that are spreading 83% of the cases thinking masks provide significant protection? 100% no, and the sick teacher spreading it to her students is Exhibit A. How much promotion of condoms would we see if they only filtered out 50% of guys' little swimmers? Let's be brutally honest about masks, and for F' sakes stop mandating them for children.

New Zealand and australia are showing us that against the delta even hard lockdowns with troops in the streets and months of that isn’t working.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

SARS-cov1, SARS-cov2, and MERS are three different viruses. There are a lot of viruses out there, including a lot that are in the coronavirus family. These viruses do share some similarities, but are definitely different. Check out their sequences and encoded proteins, mechanism of entry, etc yourself if you are not convinced. The data is published and much is accessible to the general public. Not all retroviruses are HIV1, not all rhabdoviridae are rabies viruses, and not all picornavirus are the poliovirus.

But yes, it does seem that people can be easily manipulated.

What am I not convinced about given your post?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

halftime at el traffico. the difference between several hundred with an IFR 0.3 and 4.5 million or whatever it is now with an IFR .02 is probably not attributable to sample error.

Oh?? Lol!

 

[met61]

You are a troll, an idiot and a liar

You left off...kids forum lurker and pedo freak...I'm sure I've left off others as well.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

It is indisputable at this point that vaccinated individuals are must less likely to be hospitalized have complications compared to unvaccinated individual.

As a healthcare worker I have seen plenty of patients get sicks then call me saying they should have been vaccinated. I have seen strokes, lung transplants, kidney failures, chronic fatigue. People that simoly dont function normally any more.

Everyone thinks their natural immune system is just fine until they get sick have a stroke, have kidney failure, or need a lung transplant.

All healthy people under the age of 60.

I am a lot more direct now. Stop being a stupid take the vaccine so you wont call me when its too late.

Sure you might survive but you might also have a stroke and have your kids changing your diapers for the rest of your life. Thats a faith worst than death.

Yawn.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

The argument isn’t only vaxxed v unvaxxed. The other argument is whether those previously infected with the Rona have sufficient protection and therefore don’t need the vax, need only a booster (and if so when). or need the whole course of treatment. The info that’s come out seems to indicate natural immunity is fairly robust. But of course if you haven’t had a symptomatic case, you should get vaxxed.

Nearly 7 billion on planet earth and people question the immune system.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

They were trying to explain that reducing transmissibility lowers the threshold for herd immunity. If you misunderstand what that sentence means, you’re going to feel lied to.

They did start with talking about reducing transmission. They got millions of idiots who thought they were scientists posting and reposting youtube videos with chain link fences and cans of WD40. You were among them, and you all did real damage to public health.

You cant complain that the message was muddled if you were out there shouting over it.

Like your case hyping.

 

[watfly]

New Zealand and australia are showing us that against the delta even hard lockdowns with troops in the streets and months of that isn’t working.

Doesn't work and is punitive to the healthy and everything else non-Covid. If these two islands can't do it its a fools errand to think it will work anywhere else.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Most of the mask messages I have seen have been in the “reduces but does not eliminate” category. (The others are straight up misinformation, like you see from Grace, Hound, or Dizzy.)

Not sure where you are seeing people say “mask = zero risk.”, but I completely agree that it is a dangerous oversimplification.

Masks reduce the probability of transmission. That’s all. They do not come close to eliminating transmission.

Lol! This is why you get clowned.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Very true. I would add that it would have really helped if the virus was only spread by symptomatic people, and it was clear that their symptoms were attributable to the virus. If we had great testing (easy, accessible,fast) and contract tracing in place, it would be another way people to know whether they were likely to spread the virus. With delta's ability to spread so readily, it can be difficult to get ahead of the infections.

Paul Alexander, et al., warn against overreaction to the Delta variant. Here’s their conclusion:

We are hearing discussions now about renewed lockdowns and masking etc. due to the Delta variant which has emerged as one of the weakest in terms of lethality while being very transmissible. This greatly concerns us. We are horrified by this prospect and we have shown you the actual data as it relates to Delta, and not the contrived drivel and unscientific nonsense spouted by the mainstream media and the public health experts. There is absolutely no good reason to reenter lockdowns and school closures or masking in response to the Delta variant. We find no evidence that this variant warrants masks in children. We leave you with the words of Donald Henderson:

“Experience has shown that communities faced with epidemics or other adverse events respond best and with the least anxiety when the normal social functioning of the community is least disrupted. Strong political and public health leadership to provide reassurance and to ensure that needed medical care services are provided are critical elements. If either is seen to be less than optimal, a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe.”