Vaccine

Roadrunner said:
Long term effects of vaccines? Like reducing infection rates or serious infections? There are data regarding vaccine reactions, which aren't really seen past about 2 months post vaccination. (The data collected in the Pfizer clinical trials for 5-11 yr olds has not been released. There is data out there for short term reactions to the vaccine for 12-17.). A study out from Israel came out this week analyzing risks for Pfizer vaccine vs COVID-19. (And I am going to call it Pfizer vaccine because their trade name is weird. Moderna's spike-vax is so much better.)

What long term impacts from vaccines are you referring to? Please don't tell me you think they can magnetize the recipient....

Many posters here are putting COVID-19 outcomes as alive vs dead, but survivors can experience other undesirable outcomes too. Knowing those numbers could make risk calculations different. The long covid data is less accessible for a variety of reasons.
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What are the long term impacts of delayed/interrupted socialization and education?
 
espola said:
Look up mythos versus ethos. Mythos is those concepts adherents to a given religion believe, whether it is golden tablets, being chosen people, magic stones, or eternal pie in the sky when you die. Ethos is what those adherents do, especially to those who don't share the same mythos.
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Here I'll give you a concession (maybe you caught me on a good day, maybe there's just a better vibe off of you...I dunno). My bias is to care about mythos more than ethos because my organizing principle is to care about truth above all things (even the truth if hurtful to people) than ethos (is which is basically feelings). I'll further concede that with respect to religion (as opposed to politics and policy) that it should be concerned about feelings, because that's one of it's functions and raison d'etres

p.s. I thought anecdotes weren't data???
 
Grace T. said:
Here I'll give you a concession (maybe you caught me on a good day, maybe there's just a better vibe off of you...I dunno). My bias is to care about mythos more than ethos because my organizing principle is to care about truth above all things (even the truth if hurtful to people) than ethos (is which is basically feelings). I'll further concede that with respect to religion (as opposed to politics and policy) that it should be concerned about feelings, because that's one of it's functions and raison d'etres

p.s. I thought anecdotes weren't data???
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That's true.
 
Roadrunner said:
Long term effects of vaccines? Like reducing infection rates or serious infections? There are data regarding vaccine reactions, which aren't really seen past about 2 months post vaccination. (The data collected in the Pfizer clinical trials for 5-11 yr olds has not been released. There is data out there for short term reactions to the vaccine for 12-17.). A study out from Israel came out this week analyzing risks for Pfizer vaccine vs COVID-19. (And I am going to call it Pfizer vaccine because their trade name is weird. Moderna's spike-vax is so much better.)

What long term impacts from vaccines are you referring to? Please don't tell me you think they can magnetize the recipient....

Many posters here are putting COVID-19 outcomes as alive vs dead, but survivors can experience other undesirable outcomes too. Knowing those numbers could make risk calculations different. The long covid data is less accessible for a variety of reasons.
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It's obvious that you have picked a side, and that's fine. Nice try with the condescending remark. As is with these types of forums, rarely do posters really know what the other posters do for a living.

Generally speaking, vaccines take years to develop. It's obvious where we are right now in the course of this pandemic (if you want to call it that). Not everyone in the community agrees with how these vaccines have been developed. There is no proof that there won't be long term effects on young children..none. This vaccine has been so politicized that scientific disagreement and medical disagreement isn't even considered. It's why so many in the medical community are caring for patients as they see fit with much success. Get your advice from TV or get your advice from your trusted family physician. Up to you.

Get the jab, I have. My offspring will not get it. There is statistically no need for certain demographics to consider getting vaccinated, especially if they've already had it.
 
what-happened said:
It's obvious that you have picked a side, and that's fine. Nice try with the condescending remark. As is with these types of forums, rarely do posters really know what the other posters do for a living.

Generally speaking, vaccines take years to develop. It's obvious where we are right now in the course of this pandemic (if you want to call it that). Not everyone in the community agrees with how these vaccines have been developed. There is no proof that there won't be long term effects on young children..none. This vaccine has been so politicized that scientific disagreement and medical disagreement isn't even considered. It's why so many in the medical community are caring for patients as they see fit with much success. Get your advice from TV or get your advice from your trusted family physician. Up to you.

Get the jab, I have. My offspring will not get it. There is statistically no need for certain demographics to consider getting vaccinated, especially if they've already had it.
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I see you have picked your side.
 
what-happened said:
It's obvious that you have picked a side, and that's fine. Nice try with the condescending remark. As is with these types of forums, rarely do posters really know what the other posters do for a living.

Generally speaking, vaccines take years to develop. It's obvious where we are right now in the course of this pandemic (if you want to call it that). Not everyone in the community agrees with how these vaccines have been developed. There is no proof that there won't be long term effects on young children..none. This vaccine has been so politicized that scientific disagreement and medical disagreement isn't even considered. It's why so many in the medical community are caring for patients as they see fit with much success. Get your advice from TV or get your advice from your trusted family physician. Up to you.

Get the jab, I have. My offspring will not get it. There is statistically no need for certain demographics to consider getting vaccinated, especially if they've already had it.
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Thanks for sharing
 
espola said:
I see you have picked your side.
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The only side I have picked is the same side what-happenned picked. We pick the side of the kids!!! ((nice catch K & S)). Dude, meaning Espola and not K & S, why you so mean to the kids and their parents? What an asshole!! You have zero children playing soccer but you come hear to preach 24/7. You peach hate, violence, division and lying. You argue with parents with kids playing soccer and to fight to have our kids masked all day at school and forever for that matter. Seriously, you creep me out 100%.
 
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what-happened said:
Generally speaking, vaccines take years to develop. ...

This vaccine has been so politicized. ...
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I thought that even on this forum there would be agreement that the notion people would become magnetized as a result of the vaccine is a pretty wild idea. I often wonder the genesis of some of the crazy ideas that are fed into the streams of information out there.

I definitely agree with you that the vaccine, and really anything about covid, has, unfortunately, become politicized in this country. It seems silly to me. I don't subscribe to the idea that we should divide ourselves in "camps" or take sides. How many sides or camps are there, and what is their purpose? Anyway, there's risk in everything, and I am sure that everyone would like to be making decisions with the best possible information. So, here we are on a soccer forum! Haha.

Yes, it takes a long time to develop effective vaccines. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccine technology has been a long time coming, and rests on quite a bit of research. So this wasn't overnight at all. The reliance on mRNA combined with advances in understanding protein structure (and getting the virus sequence early) all contributed to an amazingly quick timeline to the start of the clinical trials. SARS-CoV1 experience and lots of coronavirus research was also important. I know moderna had planned for a different initial vaccine, but quickly shifted when SARS-CoV2 hit.
 
dad4 said:
From your article:

“Use the mitigation measures we know work,” O’Leary says. “Wear masks when you’re around other people, particularly in enclosed spaces….Avoid places where lots of people are congregating.”

It’s good advice.
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Grace T. said:
It ultimately depends on whether we are going to pursue the UK strategy or the Gottlieb strategy, because otherwise there is no goalpost to measure. Roadrunner has the right question: we need to know long term damage numbers to kids, long term damage number to vaccinated adults to be able to decide. If the UK approach is correct, then no because you want the illness to circulate to develop natural immunity.

Otherwise, if you are looking just at deaths in kids, it's an argument to do this every flu season and every RSV season. And I can personally attest, as a person currently suffering long RSV, long RSV and flu happen as well.
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No, it really doesn’t depend on that at all. Nice words, and lots of them, as always.

But not a lick of logic in it. Masks and distance being a good idea does not depend on whether NHS or CDC has the better strategy. (why would it?)

but, along those logical lines:

Do you want that hamster to die or not? Then go and play the cello! After all, that hamster needs goalposts. Without the cello, he’d have nothing to live for.
 
dad4 said:
No, it really doesn’t depend on that at all. Nice words, and lots of them, as always.

But not a lick of logic in it. Masks and distance being a good idea does not depend on whether NHS or CDC has the better strategy. (why would it?)

but, along those logical lines:

Do you want that hamster to die or not? Then go and play the cello! After all, that hamster needs goalposts. Without the cello, he’d have nothing to live for.
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dad4 said:
Did you want them to set a permanent policy based on what we knew in April 2020? We’d still be running around, scrubbing everything with lysol every 2 hours.

Of course the policy changes. The world is changing, and our understanding of covid is changing. The rules will change, too.
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The outcomes of respiratory diseases remain the same while unscientific policies ignore those empirical outcomes and deny our rights to due process.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
The outcomes of respiratory diseases remain the same while unscientific policies ignore those empirical outcomes and deny our rights to due process.
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Outcomes are the same?

So, you're ok with Levine and Cuomo putting known covid patients back in nursing homes. After all, the outcome is the same, so it can't have done any harm, right?
 
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