Vaccine

Anecdotal story. We don't require our kids to be masked in situations where they can maintain 6 feet of distance at our youth clubhouses. Our counselors who are masked do a great job of maintaining space. Kids are only required to a mask indoors if the 6 feet spacing can't be maintained. We've been open since June 2020, have there been infections? yes. Have their been outbreaks? no. Kids were likely infected outside of our clubhouses where precautions can't be maintained.

Can every school provide 6 feet of spacing, probably not, but many can. Where there is a will there is way to maintain spacing if you consider all the indoor and outdoor space available. Furthermore, the clear plastic being used in many schools is a barrier that can redirect the plume, since it's non-permeable likely better than masks. (yes I'm aware of the plastic barrier study) Unfortunately, many adults out of their own selfishness are F it, just make the kids where masks.

If you remember when the masking policy was first recommended it was 6 feet or a mask. Like everything else the goalposts keep moving.
 
Why is Pfizer vaccine called Comirnaty?

The meaning behind the name 'Comirnaty' Comirnaty is an agglomeration of the words “Covid-19 immunity” and “mRNA,” the latter indicating the technology that makes the vaccine work. As a whole, the word is intended to evoke “community,” a Brand Institute executive said.

Koom-bah-yah!
 
watfly said:
Anecdotal story. We don't require our kids to be masked in situations where they can maintain 6 feet of distance at our youth clubhouses. Our counselors who are masked do a great job of maintaining space. Kids are only required to a mask indoors if the 6 feet spacing can't be maintained. We've been open since June 2020, have there been infections? yes. Have their been outbreaks? no. Kids were likely infected outside of our clubhouses where precautions can't be maintained.

Can every school provide 6 feet of spacing, probably not, but many can. Where there is a will there is way to maintain spacing if you consider all the indoor and outdoor space available. Furthermore, the clear plastic being used in many schools is a barrier that can redirect the plume, since it's non-permeable likely better than masks. (yes I'm aware of the plastic barrier study) Unfortunately, many adults out of their own selfishness are F it, just make the kids where masks.

If you remember when the masking policy was first recommended it was 6 feet or a mask. Like everything else the goalposts keep moving.
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Did you want them to set a permanent policy based on what we knew in April 2020? We’d still be running around, scrubbing everything with lysol every 2 hours.

Of course the policy changes. The world is changing, and our understanding of covid is changing. The rules will change, too.
 
dad4 said:
Did you want them to set a permanent policy based on what we knew in April 2020? We’d still be running around, scrubbing everything with lysol every 2 hours.

Of course the policy changes. The world is changing, and our understanding of covid is changing. The rules will change, too.
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I'm OK with policy changing based on science. What scientific study said it has to be 6 feet and mask?

It seems to me the science for spacing over masks has only gotten stronger. Same with outdoors over masks.
 
Desert Hound said:
Lets start with this.

With 72 million kids and only 350 deaths....you tell us why you think this group should mask up.

What risk do they have that would justify wearing masks?
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The child death numbers have gone up. I believe the current number is more like 489 covid deaths from infections in the 0-17 age range.

Also, the only infection outcomes that matter aren't simply binary - alive or dead. There's no category yet that is publicly reporting on long term damage rates.
 
dad4 said:
From your article:

“Use the mitigation measures we know work,” O’Leary says. “Wear masks when you’re around other people, particularly in enclosed spaces….Avoid places where lots of people are congregating.”

It’s good advice.
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It ultimately depends on whether we are going to pursue the UK strategy or the Gottlieb strategy, because otherwise there is no goalpost to measure. Roadrunner has the right question: we need to know long term damage numbers to kids, long term damage number to vaccinated adults to be able to decide. If the UK approach is correct, then no because you want the illness to circulate to develop natural immunity.

Otherwise, if you are looking just at deaths in kids, it's an argument to do this every flu season and every RSV season. And I can personally attest, as a person currently suffering long RSV, long RSV and flu happen as well.
 
Roadrunner said:
The child death numbers have gone up. I believe the current number is more like 489 covid deaths from infections in the 0-17 age range.

Also, the only infection outcomes that matter aren't simply binary - alive or dead. There's no category yet that is publicly reporting on long term damage rates.
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Not in San Diego County, 2 deaths in 0-19 age range and it has been that way for months.
 
Roadrunner said:
The child death numbers have gone up. I believe the current number is more like 489 covid deaths from infections in the 0-17 age range.

Also, the only infection outcomes that matter aren't simply binary - alive or dead. There's no category yet that is publicly reporting on long term damage rates.
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Same goes for long term vaccine effects on children.
 
dad4 said:
Did you want them to set a permanent policy based on what we knew in April 2020? We’d still be running around, scrubbing everything with lysol every 2 hours.

Of course the policy changes. The world is changing, and our understanding of covid is changing. The rules will change, too.
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Sometimes it changes, changes back and changes again despite the data and science staying the same.
 
Roadrunner said:
The child death numbers have gone up. I believe the current number is more like 489 covid deaths from infections in the 0-17 age range.
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Let us assume that is correct. Now divide that number into 72 million. Ask dad if with a population of 72 million there is a difference if the number is 350 or 489.

If you think there is, you have a serious issue regarding math/data.

If you look at either of those numbers and say, whew...this age group has zero risk, you win the prize.
 
what-happened said:
Same goes for long term vaccine effects on children.
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Long term effects of vaccines? Like reducing infection rates or serious infections? There are data regarding vaccine reactions, which aren't really seen past about 2 months post vaccination. (The data collected in the Pfizer clinical trials for 5-11 yr olds has not been released. There is data out there for short term reactions to the vaccine for 12-17.). A study out from Israel came out this week analyzing risks for Pfizer vaccine vs COVID-19. (And I am going to call it Pfizer vaccine because their trade name is weird. Moderna's spike-vax is so much better.)

What long term impacts from vaccines are you referring to? Please don't tell me you think they can magnetize the recipient....

Many posters here are putting COVID-19 outcomes as alive vs dead, but survivors can experience other undesirable outcomes too. Knowing those numbers could make risk calculations different. The long covid data is less accessible for a variety of reasons.
 
Roadrunner said:
Long term effects of vaccines? Like reducing infection rates or serious infections? There are data regarding vaccine reactions, which aren't really seen past about 2 months post vaccination. (The data collected in the Pfizer clinical trials for 5-11 yr olds has not been released. There is data out there for short term reactions to the vaccine for 12-17.). A study out from Israel came out this week analyzing risks for Pfizer vaccine vs COVID-19. (And I am going to call it Pfizer vaccine because their trade name is weird. Moderna's spike-vax is so much better.)

What long term impacts from vaccines are you referring to? Please don't tell me you think they can magnetize the recipient....

Many posters here are putting COVID-19 outcomes as alive vs dead, but survivors can experience other undesirable outcomes too. Knowing those numbers could make risk calculations different. The long covid data is less accessible for a variety of reasons.
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A decent summary from what we know about kids under 17, with the caveat that the Delta was not very present during this time period. 98% fully recovered by 8 weeks....which is roughly on par with RSV (as I mentioned I am suffering from long RSV now (7 weeks out) and my son suffered from long RSV when he was in preschool (4 months)). What we really, of course, want to know is not just a persistent cough, but the "long COVID" that we hear in the news where the person is debilitated. Still, that is a pool somewhat less than 2%, and hitting the olders harder than youngers.

www.cidrap.umn.edu

Long COVID-19 rare in children, study says

www.cidrap.umn.edu www.cidrap.umn.edu
 
Roadrunner said:
Long term effects of vaccines? Like reducing infection rates or serious infections? There are data regarding vaccine reactions, which aren't really seen past about 2 months post vaccination. (The data collected in the Pfizer clinical trials for 5-11 yr olds has not been released. There is data out there for short term reactions to the vaccine for 12-17.). A study out from Israel came out this week analyzing risks for Pfizer vaccine vs COVID-19. (And I am going to call it Pfizer vaccine because their trade name is weird. Moderna's spike-vax is so much better.)

What long term impacts from vaccines are you referring to? Please don't tell me you think they can magnetize the recipient....

Many posters here are putting COVID-19 outcomes as alive vs dead, but survivors can experience other undesirable outcomes too. Knowing those numbers could make risk calculations different. The long covid data is less accessible for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...

My brother and his wife caught covid early on, in March or April of 2020. Both are retired active outdoorspeople living in Alaska. He is the volunteer staff civil engineer at Arctic Valley Ski Area near Anchorage, and she raises, shows, and runs sled dogs. He reported that after their recovery they had a few weeks of shortness of breath, but that eventually went away.

They have also both been vaccinated.
 
Grace T. said:
Fair summation of our respective beliefs. I do note, however, that back in law school I dated someone (quiet seriously) who was a student at the div school. Though my majors were Soviet studies and Econ, In undergrad I spent quite a few courses taking comparative religion classes. I spent many a Friday night at the div school in the lounge having riveting discussions with people of various religions but the traditional Christians were the most interesting, particularly since I knew the history of the early church and the early gospels backwards and forwards and could dissect their arguments fairly easily. Our conversations bore a striking resemblance to our conversations…eerily so. My favorite personally was the Mormon plates discussion one blizzard evening. The explanation I always got for why I was wrong is “you don’t understand”. Again, whether it be Afghanistan or 2008 or covid, the experts, for a variety of reasons, have an amazing ability to miss the forest through the trees.
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Look up mythos versus ethos. Mythos is those concepts adherents to a given religion believe, whether it is golden tablets, being chosen people, magic stones, or eternal pie in the sky when you die. Ethos is what those adherents do, especially to those who don't share the same mythos.
 
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