Bad News Thread

 
You are very critical of CRT, but you have shown no knowledge of what it is.
Or where, at what level, it is actually taught/discussed in ernest.
Sure, the vaccines work. It’s very good news for those of us who live in areas where people actually got their shots.

If you don’t live in Vermont, Hawaii, or SF, expect to hear more about Delta. A 50% vax rate leaves more than enough potential carriers for you to have an outbreak.
Well there you have it folks.

Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.

Henry Rosovsky
 
Or where, at what level, it is actually taught/discussed in ernest.
This might be above you Du

In addition to its own evils during its own time, slavery has generated fallacies that endure into our time, confusing many issues today. The distinguished historian Daniel J. Boorstin said something that was well known to many scholars, but utterly unknown to many among the general public, when he pointed out that, with the mass transportation of Africans in bondage to the Western Hemisphere, "Now for the first time in Western history, the status of slave coincided with a difference of race."

For centuries before, Europeans had enslaved other Europeans, Asians had enslaved other Asians and Africans had enslaved other Africans. Only in the modern era was there both the wealth and the technology to organize the mass transportation of people across an ocean, either as slaves or as free immigrants.
Nor were Europeans the only ones to transport masses of enslaved human beings from one continent to another. North Africa's Barbary Coast pirates alone captured and enslaved at least a million Europeans from 1500 to 1800, carrying more Europeans into bondage in North Africa than there were Africans brought in bondage to the United States and the American colonies from which it was formed. Moreover, Europeans were still being bought and sold in the slave markets of the Islamic world, decades after blacks were freed in the United States.

Slavery was a virtually universal institution in countries around the world and for thousands of years of recorded history. Indeed, archaeological evidence suggests that human beings learned to enslave other human beings before they learned to write. One of the many fallacies about slavery— that it was based on race— is sustained by the simple but pervasive practice of focussing exclusively on the enslavement of Africans by Europeans, as if this were something unique, rather than part of a much larger worldwide human tragedy. Racism grew out of African slavery, especially in the United States, but slavery preceded racism by thousands of years. Europeans enslaved other Europeans for centuries before the first African was brought in bondage to the Western Hemisphere.

The brutal reality is that vulnerable people were usually taken advantage of wherever it was feasible to take advantage of them, regardless of what race or color they were.
The rise of nation states put armies and navies around some people but it was not equally possible to establish nation states in all parts of the world, partly because of geography. Where large populations had no army or navy to protect them, they fell prey to enslavers, whether in Africa, Asia or along unguarded stretches of European coastlines where Barbary pirates made raids, usually around the Mediterranean but sometimes as far away as England or Iceland. The enormous concentration of writings and of the media in general on slavery in the Western Hemisphere, or in the United States in particular, creates a false picture which makes it difficult to understand even the history of slavery in the United States.

While slavery was readily accepted as a fact of life all around the world for centuries on end, there was never a time when slavery could get that kind of universal acceptance in the United States, founded on a principle of freedom, with which slavery was in such obvious and irreconcilable contradiction. Slavery was under ideological attack from the first draft of the Declaration of Independence and a number of Northern states banned slavery in the years immediately following independence. Even in the South, the ideology of freedom was not wholly without effect, as tens of thousands of slaves were voluntarily set free after Americans gained their own freedom from England.

Most Southern slaveowners, however, were determined to hold on to their slaves and, for that, some defense was necessary against the ideology of freedom and the widespread criticisms of slavery that were its corollary. Racism became that defense. Such a defense was unnecessary in unfree societies, such as that of Brazil, which imported more slaves than the United States but developed no such virulent levels of racism as that of the American South. Outside Western civilization, no defense of slavery was necessary, as non-Western societies saw nothing wrong with it. Nor was there any serious challenge to slavery in Western civilization prior to the eighteenth century.

Racism became a justification of slavery in a society where it could not be justified otherwise— and centuries of racism did not suddenly vanish with the abolition of the slavery that gave rise to it. But the direction of causation was the direct opposite of what is assumed by those who depict the enslavement of Africans as being a result of racism. Nevertheless, racism became one of the enduring legacies of slavery. How much of it continues to endure and in what strength today is something that can be examined and debated. But many other things that are considered to be legacies of slavery can be tested empirically, rather than being accepted as foregone conclusions.

Mr. Sowell, Economic Facts and Fallacies
 
Sure, the vaccines work. It’s very good news for those of us who live in areas where people actually got their shots.

If you don’t live in Vermont, Hawaii, or SF, expect to hear more about Delta. A 50% vax rate leaves more than enough potential carriers for you to have an outbreak.
Nonsense as usual.
 
"Sure, the vaccines work. It's very good news for those of us who live in areas where people actually got their shots. It's very good news for those of us who actually got our shots and are old enough to be at risk. If you don’t live in Vermont, Hawaii, or SF, expect to hear more about Delta. A 50% vax rate leaves more than enough potential carriers for you to have an outbreak. you haven't got your shot you should get one so you can resume living a normal life" There....FIFY.
You‘re still having trouble with the germ theory of disease.

Vaccines do protect the individual, as you noted. Vaccines also decrease overall transmission, and thereby reduce overall viral load in the community. I was referring to the second effect.
 
If pre-vax survival rate is 98%, how do they know that any post-vax numbers aren't due to natural immunity? Especially in hospital workers with daily exposure to corona and other respiratory diseases over many years.
 
Sure, the vaccines work. It’s very good news for those of us who live in areas where people actually got their shots.

If you don’t live in Vermont, Hawaii, or SF, expect to hear more about Delta. A 50% vax rate leaves more than enough potential carriers for you to have an outbreak.

CNN crawl bar said as I was walking by my wife's TV that Arkansas is now scrambling for vaccine doses as they have become a covid hotpot.
 
You‘re still having trouble with the germ theory of disease.

Vaccines do protect the individual, as you noted. Vaccines also decrease overall transmission, and thereby reduce overall viral load in the community. I was referring to the second effect.

The 2ndary effect really doesn't matter though if you get vaccinated and vaccines decouple hospitalizations/death from cases. Better question is why exactly are you still concerned with cases? Do you get this worked up every bad flu season, about RSV or about adenovirus?
 
If pre-vax survival rate is 98%, how do they know that any post-vax numbers aren't due to natural immunity? Especially in hospital workers with daily exposure to corona and other respiratory diseases over many years.


They can be. The problem with natural immunity though is that we know it produces a wide ranging antibody response (which is likely linked with how much immunity you have but it may not be the entire story). For example, my antibody response was not very robust at all. My son's from an average level had begun to decrease a year out. My bestie's are over 10 still 6 months out.

The same effect happens with the shot. For some people, 1 shot may be enough....but for many it's not enough, particularly against a mutating variant, to keep them from getting really ill again. J&J could have been a 2 shot protocol....they however only submitted the results for a 1 shot protocol. Pfizer could have submitted for 1 shot...they got approval though for the 2 shot protocol.

From a study I previously posted in the UK, natural immunity in some cases may be enough but in the general population it seems to be the equivalent of 1 shot, particularly against the variants. The only way really around this is to constantly test everyone's antibody levels, which they are reluctant to do, in part because as some of us having been arguing about t cells, antibodies may only be part of the story.
 
You‘re still having trouble with the germ theory of disease.

Vaccines do protect the individual, as you noted. Vaccines also decrease overall transmission, and thereby reduce overall viral load in the community. I was referring to the second effect.
You‘re still having trouble with quacknowledging virus history and the immune system that deals with the actual virus and disease. The fake vaccines are simply hitching a ride on the immune system.
 
They can be. The problem with natural immunity though is that we know it produces a wide ranging antibody response (which is likely linked with how much immunity you have but it may not be the entire story). For example, my antibody response was not very robust at all. My son's from an average level had begun to decrease a year out. My bestie's are over 10 still 6 months out.

The same effect happens with the shot. For some people, 1 shot may be enough....but for many it's not enough, particularly against a mutating variant, to keep them from getting really ill again. J&J could have been a 2 shot protocol....they however only submitted the results for a 1 shot protocol. Pfizer could have submitted for 1 shot...they got approval though for the 2 shot protocol.

From a study I previously posted in the UK, natural immunity in some cases may be enough but in the general population it seems to be the equivalent of 1 shot, particularly against the variants. The only way really around this is to constantly test everyone's antibody levels, which they are reluctant to do, in part because as some of us having been arguing about t cells, antibodies may only be part of the story.
But what you have stated above has been happening for decades. And started trending the same way last May.
 
You‘re still having trouble with quacknowledging virus history and the immune system that deals with the actual virus and disease. The fake vaccines are simply hitching a ride on the immune system.
Hitching a ride on the immune system? Well, yes. That's a pretty good description of all vaccines.

How did you think vaccines work?
 
This might be above you Du

In addition to its own evils during its own time, slavery has generated fallacies that endure into our time, confusing many issues today. The distinguished historian Daniel J. Boorstin said something that was well known to many scholars, but utterly unknown to many among the general public, when he pointed out that, with the mass transportation of Africans in bondage to the Western Hemisphere, "Now for the first time in Western history, the status of slave coincided with a difference of race."

For centuries before, Europeans had enslaved other Europeans, Asians had enslaved other Asians and Africans had enslaved other Africans. Only in the modern era was there both the wealth and the technology to organize the mass transportation of people across an ocean, either as slaves or as free immigrants.
Nor were Europeans the only ones to transport masses of enslaved human beings from one continent to another. North Africa's Barbary Coast pirates alone captured and enslaved at least a million Europeans from 1500 to 1800, carrying more Europeans into bondage in North Africa than there were Africans brought in bondage to the United States and the American colonies from which it was formed. Moreover, Europeans were still being bought and sold in the slave markets of the Islamic world, decades after blacks were freed in the United States.

Slavery was a virtually universal institution in countries around the world and for thousands of years of recorded history. Indeed, archaeological evidence suggests that human beings learned to enslave other human beings before they learned to write. One of the many fallacies about slavery— that it was based on race— is sustained by the simple but pervasive practice of focussing exclusively on the enslavement of Africans by Europeans, as if this were something unique, rather than part of a much larger worldwide human tragedy. Racism grew out of African slavery, especially in the United States, but slavery preceded racism by thousands of years. Europeans enslaved other Europeans for centuries before the first African was brought in bondage to the Western Hemisphere.

The brutal reality is that vulnerable people were usually taken advantage of wherever it was feasible to take advantage of them, regardless of what race or color they were.
The rise of nation states put armies and navies around some people but it was not equally possible to establish nation states in all parts of the world, partly because of geography. Where large populations had no army or navy to protect them, they fell prey to enslavers, whether in Africa, Asia or along unguarded stretches of European coastlines where Barbary pirates made raids, usually around the Mediterranean but sometimes as far away as England or Iceland. The enormous concentration of writings and of the media in general on slavery in the Western Hemisphere, or in the United States in particular, creates a false picture which makes it difficult to understand even the history of slavery in the United States.

While slavery was readily accepted as a fact of life all around the world for centuries on end, there was never a time when slavery could get that kind of universal acceptance in the United States, founded on a principle of freedom, with which slavery was in such obvious and irreconcilable contradiction. Slavery was under ideological attack from the first draft of the Declaration of Independence and a number of Northern states banned slavery in the years immediately following independence. Even in the South, the ideology of freedom was not wholly without effect, as tens of thousands of slaves were voluntarily set free after Americans gained their own freedom from England.

Most Southern slaveowners, however, were determined to hold on to their slaves and, for that, some defense was necessary against the ideology of freedom and the widespread criticisms of slavery that were its corollary. Racism became that defense. Such a defense was unnecessary in unfree societies, such as that of Brazil, which imported more slaves than the United States but developed no such virulent levels of racism as that of the American South. Outside Western civilization, no defense of slavery was necessary, as non-Western societies saw nothing wrong with it. Nor was there any serious challenge to slavery in Western civilization prior to the eighteenth century.

Racism became a justification of slavery in a society where it could not be justified otherwise— and centuries of racism did not suddenly vanish with the abolition of the slavery that gave rise to it. But the direction of causation was the direct opposite of what is assumed by those who depict the enslavement of Africans as being a result of racism. Nevertheless, racism became one of the enduring legacies of slavery. How much of it continues to endure and in what strength today is something that can be examined and debated. But many other things that are considered to be legacies of slavery can be tested empirically, rather than being accepted as foregone conclusions.

Mr. Sowell, Economic Facts and Fallacies
Apart from the Romans (European) obviously, the Byzantine Empire, the Mongol hordes took slaves east, the Arabs were taking African slaves for centuries before the Europeans etc.

BTW, you should educate yourself on racism in Brazil, that's a very poor example in your piece.

So what's the purpose of the piece you posted. Slavery has always existed and was a fact of life, so that's ok? Racism didn't exist and was only created to justify slavery, so racism is ok?

Or maybe that people have been despicable for forever, so it's ok to continue being despicable now?

Heaven forbid we should attempt to evolve as a society. There's a litany of government (State & Federal) laws which were in place and were slowly repealed in the US which were clearly racist, e.g. it wasn't until 1967 when the Supreme court "authorized" inter racial marriage. Most states allowed it at that point, but a case made it all the way to the Supreme court in 1967 on it. It was still on one state's statute books until 2000 when it was finally overturned.

I don't believe in indoctrination, one way or the other. I do believe in facts, actual hard facts. There is a lot of US history to be proud of and there is also a lot to be ashamed of. There is way more good than bad, but there should be no fear at looking at the latter.

Why is everyone so fucking afraid (masked in anger and hatred and vitriol for the "other" side)? We're all Americans, better together etc. yada yada
 
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