Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
Read your answer.

You never actually explain how you will hold someone accountable if they hold an event which results in other people dying of covid.

You bring up “personal responsiblility”, but the only person you’re willing to hold responsible is the one who is dead from covid.
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Assuming they died since there is a 97+% survival rate.
 
watfly said:
A bit of an oversimplification and not exactly the words I would use, but yes, for the most part that's my position. I'd make an exception for intentionally infecting someone, and maybe for gross recklessness. Simply hosting an event or holding class with or without restrictions wouldn't qualify. That's the great thing about choice. You can choose to attend or not. You can choose to stay 6 ft away, etc.
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Ah. Most of us use the phrase to mean that if I cause harm to you, then I should be held responsible for my actions.

Kind of a weird twist if "personal responsibility" means that you are being held responsible for something I did.
 
dad4 said:
Ah. Most of us use the phrase to mean that if I cause harm to you, then I should be held responsible for my actions.

Kind of a weird twist if "personal responsibility" means that you are being held responsible for something I did.
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I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
 
watfly said:
I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
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You are asking for everyone else to ignore whether your choice is harming others. Then you go on to blame them for being selfish, and pat yourself on the back for your supposed “personal responsibility”.

You’ve got the whole notion of personal responsibility backwards. It is meant to be about each of us taking ownership of the consequances of our actions. It doesn’t mean I get to do whatever the hell I want, and then blame others for having the nerve to get in my way.
 
watfly said:
I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
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Exactly. If you don't feel safe going to a bar, on a cruise, going to a concert don't go.

You have the choice.
 
dad4 said:
You’ve got the whole notion of personal responsibility backwards. It is meant to be about each of us taking ownership of the consequances of our actions. It doesn’t mean I get to do whatever the hell I want, and then blame others for having the nerve to get in my way.
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Really? Is the above any different than what Watfly said? I guess you could interpret his words as you stated. I happen to think the intent was the same as what you said. Then again I may be misinterpreting you.

Taking ownership of the consequences of your actions, not getting vaccinated and getting Covid, means you live with the consequences of your actions. You don’t get to blame everyone else for getting in the way of your desire to do whatever the hell you want while unvaccinated... you do get to make that choice and live with the consequences, if any.

To use the tired example of driving a car... every time you get behind the wheel you chose to take on the risk of being in a collision. If you’re drunk at the time and injure someone else or yourself, you live with those consequences (arrest, jail, injury or death). The other party isn’t to blame and yet still understood the risk that there are idiots out there putting them at risk. In this extreme example, the innocent party does have someone to blame and a legal system to provide what redress is possible.

If you’re just in an accident, (ex: caused by a flat tire, mechanical failure, sneeze, animal darting out into the road unexpectedly) regardless of who hit who, both drivers assumed that risk, however small, and have to live with the consequences of their actions.

The ‘drunk driver’ in Covid infections, now that there is ample vaccine access, is gross negligence, intentional infecting another, or exposing others when known to be Covid positive.

The ‘accident’ is when someone who is pre-symptomatic accidentally exposes someone who is not vaccinated, immunocompromised, etc. Both parties chose to be in a situation where they could potentially be exposed. (Note the pre-symptomatic carrier is unlikely to be vaccinated or is immunocompromised, etc. and made the same choice with the same risks while it was unknown to them that they were infected)
 
N00B said:
Really? Is the above any different than what Watfly said? I guess you could interpret his words as you stated. I happen to think the intent was the same as what you said. Then again I may be misinterpreting you.
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If he didn't mischaracterize others' comments he would have nothing to debate.

I'm sitting here at a HS basketball game. Half the spectators are masked. For the life of me I don't understand how the school should be held liable for someone contracting Covid. Everyone is here on their own free will. They've assumed the risk.

I'm also sitting here wondering how these varsity basketball players don't look any taller than the U14 LAFC players my son played a couple weeks ago.
 
dad4 said:
You are asking for everyone else to ignore whether your choice is harming others. Then you go on to blame them for being selfish, and pat yourself on the back for your supposed “personal responsibility”.

You’ve got the whole notion of personal responsibility backwards. It is meant to be about each of us taking ownership of the consequances of our actions. It doesn’t mean I get to do whatever the hell I want, and then blame others for having the nerve to get in my way.
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Communist word salad.
 
watfly said:
If he didn't mischaracterize others' comments he would have nothing to debate.

I'm sitting here at a HS basketball game. Half the spectators are masked. For the life of me I don't understand how the school should be held liable for someone contracting Covid. Everyone is here on their own free will. They've assumed the risk.

I'm also sitting here wondering how these varsity basketball players don't look any taller than the U14 LAFC players my son played a couple weeks ago.
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State cup game yesterday near San Diego. About 1/2 masked too.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Wow, half? I was at an ECNL game in NorCal yesterday. IIRC, about 1 in 5 or fewer had masks on. We have another game today. I'll pay more attention.
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It seemed that the ratio was similar at our game. It makes sense though given the demo of club soccer parents, most are vaccinated. So if you follow the science you're not wearing a mask. In my circle I'm only aware of one adult that hasn't gotten a vaccine and she is breast feeding. We're on the fence about my pre-puberty son getting vaccinated.
 
watfly said:
It seemed that the ratio was similar at our game. It makes sense though given the demo of club soccer parents, most are vaccinated. So if you follow the science you're not wearing a mask. In my circle I'm only aware of one adult that hasn't gotten a vaccine and she is breast feeding. We're on the fence about my pre-puberty son getting vaccinated.
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"follow the demo" falls apart in small numbers.
 
watfly said:
It seemed that the ratio was similar at our game. It makes sense though given the demo of club soccer parents, most are vaccinated. So if you follow the science you're not wearing a mask. In my circle I'm only aware of one adult that hasn't gotten a vaccine and she is breast feeding. We're on the fence about my pre-puberty son getting vaccinated.
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Why assume that, if you follow the science you are unmasked? No part of the science says masks cause damage.

I am fully aware that my mask today does about 1/20 as much good as it did before. I can even tell you that my neighborhood is a low risk neighborhood in a low risk county of a low risk state.

However, as long as 1/4 of adults near me are unvaccinated, I kind of like the politeness mask expectation. So I wear mine, because it costs me nothing and might help.
 
Grace T. said:
Interestingly more of the players were masked than the adults walking to the field. Wonder if because adults still worried kids not vaccinated.
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I would like to ask as I am genuinely curious. Unfortunately, some may take that as judging so I keep my mouth shut. I know @crush knows I don't judge, but not everyone knows me like that ;)
 
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