Bad News Thread

Insurance companies and their lawyers will not hold back going after someone who ignores mask or vaccination requirements and can be shown to have been the source of another person's illness. At some point not getting vaccinated is like deciding you have the right to run red lights or drive on the left side of the road because --

FREEDUMB!
CooCoo
 
If you don’t want ridiculous lawsuits over covid, then don’t recommend a covid policy of “hold people responsible for their actions.”

In this country, the way we hold people responsible for their actions is through the courts. So, when you say “hold each person individually responsible”, you are asking to turn public health over to the tort lawyers.
That's exactly the opposite of what I proposed, but thanks for misquoting me again. Please refer back to my post regarding individual responsibility and accountability.
 
If you spit in my soup or lick my hamburger when you're Covid positive then I don't have a problem with a lawsuit. Otherwise were talking about an airborne virus and you have to assume the risk of catching it, particularly if you don't get vaccinated. Life is full of risks, deal with it.
The pre-vax recovery rate doesn't exactly infer higher risk for corona infected and recovered folks who decline shots. On the contrary, their next exposure to Corona will easily be met with the applicable response in the absence of a vaccine that has nothing to do with Corona.
 
Maybe my crystal ball was just working better than yours at the time.

Here is a fuller context of what was said during a hearing before a Senate Subcommittee --

Redfield said if Americans wore face masks for several weeks, "we would bring this pandemic under control," because there is scientific evidence they work and they are our "best defense."

"I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine, because it may be 70%. And if I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me," Redfield said. "This face mask will."

Several experts contacted by CBS News agree with that assessment: Since vaccines do not guarantee an immune response, masks may be more effective at preventing COVID-19. The FDA has previously said it would approve a coronavirus vaccine that was at least 50% effective. While that could significantly reduce the number of hospitalizations and deaths, it would not completely eliminate the disease or guarantee protection.


And that was last September, after the big summer rush of cases, when the unmasked-in chief was still predicting it would all be over in a few weeks.
 
Masks have been taking a beating.

First it was the sudden Establishment consensus that outdoor mask mandates had no scientific merit and should be repealed.

Then it was the CDC saying that the vaccinated don't need to wear masks.

Then, from this foundation, big stores like Trader Joe's, Walmart, and Costco all announced that the vaccinated would not be required to wear masks in their stores -- and added that they wouldn't be verifying anyone's vaccination status.

And yet in many places mask wearing is still overwhelmingly prevalent.

The wearers either don't believe their vaccines work, or they suddenly don't trust the CDC, or who knows what.

Or they've simply been so terrorized and propagandized that they can't think clearly.

Or the mask is a symbol of "science" and moral superiority, and they can't give that up.

The other day on Twitter someone asked people: why do you care if people are wearing masks outdoors? They've just been through a mass death event. Let them do what they want.

Well, of course I'll let people do stupid, pointless things if they want.

But here's why I care:

(1) If people did a rain dance after a long drought I wouldn't say, "Can you blame them? It's been a long drought."

(2) Many of the people still wearing masks, especially outdoors, are the very ones who spent the past year lecturing the rest of us about science. When they themselves act in defiance of science, it rightly makes us question what their true motivations had been all along.

(3) Masks don't seem to do anything. The "studies" purporting to show that they do either involve arbitrary dates (and thus exclude huge spikes that would be embarrassing to have to explain away) or are just models, in which the model assumes from the start that masks work.

What we know in reality is that we have chart after chart after chart of countries around the world in which, just before a massive spike, some headline read, "How Country X Defeated the Coronavirus," and the story generally involves masks. After the spike, no journalist revisits the issue and says, "Maybe we were being too simplistic when we attributed country X's success to masks. The Florida panhandle is mostly unmasked, and their health outcomes are no different from those in the rest of the state. Mandates have ended in numerous states, with no ill effects.

(4) Human communication involves more than words (and even words can be hard to make out with masks on). Masks disrupt the full spectrum of human communication, thereby opening the door to suspicion and misunderstanding.

(5) Are we seriously so debased that I actually have to argue in favor of seeing people's faces?

(6) Infants and toddlers need facial expressions for their proper development. We all know about the studies involving infants and a mother who is expressionless as opposed to a mother who is smiling. Infants and toddlers today are growing up in what must seem like a soulless dystopia.

(7) If you're wearing a mask outside in particular, you're either impervious to evidence or you're making some kind of statement, and neither possibility is particularly flattering. Nobody would do such a thing without at least a vague sense that it's scientifically justified. So that means they almost certainly look at my unmasked face and assume scientific ignorance. I don't particularly care for having that assumption made about me.

At first many of us wondered how the politicians would stand down from all these crazy restrictions and requirements. But now an equally compelling question is whether substantial segments of the American public itself will be willing to ditch these things.

I suspect the masks will come off in large numbers once a critical mass is reached. In other words, the remainder will fall quickly because I think many of those people complied in the first place out of a desire to do what was popular. As soon as masks cease to be popular, this group of people will rip them off pretty darn quickly.
 
Here is a fuller context of what was said during a hearing before a Senate Subcommittee --

Redfield said if Americans wore face masks for several weeks, "we would bring this pandemic under control," because there is scientific evidence they work and they are our "best defense."

"I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine, because it may be 70%. And if I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me," Redfield said. "This face mask will."

Several experts contacted by CBS News agree with that assessment: Since vaccines do not guarantee an immune response, masks may be more effective at preventing COVID-19. The FDA has previously said it would approve a coronavirus vaccine that was at least 50% effective. While that could significantly reduce the number of hospitalizations and deaths, it would not completely eliminate the disease or guarantee protection.


And that was last September, after the big summer rush of cases, when the unmasked-in chief was still predicting it would all be over in a few weeks.
Yeah it's fuller of something alright.
 
Simple concept. If grandma or any adult is concerned about getting sick from kids or anyone outside their family, then limit your exposure or do it only fully masked. Masks work right? Or if your concerned about getting it from school children, then don't send your kids to school. If you get sick then you have just been held accountable for your actions and don't play the victim card. Maybe personal responsibility is a better word. Worry about your own behavior, and less the behavior of others. Like I've said many times your behavior, and not the behavior or others, overwhelming impacts whether you get Covid (a car accident probably less so). Your approach is "I don't want to be a victim, so please government control the behavior of others". That's a selfish mentality.
Read your answer.

You never actually explain how you will hold someone accountable if they hold an event which results in other people dying of covid.

You bring up “personal responsiblility”, but the only person you’re willing to hold responsible is the one who is dead from covid.
 
You bring up “personal responsiblility”, but the only person you’re willing to hold responsible is the one who is dead from covid.
A bit of an oversimplification and not exactly the words I would use, but yes, for the most part that's my position. I'd make an exception for intentionally infecting someone, and maybe for gross recklessness. Simply hosting an event or holding class with or without restrictions wouldn't qualify. That's the great thing about choice. You can choose to attend or not. You can choose to stay 6 ft away, etc.
 
Read your answer.

You never actually explain how you will hold someone accountable if they hold an event which results in other people dying of covid.

You bring up “personal responsiblility”, but the only person you’re willing to hold responsible is the one who is dead from covid.
Assuming they died since there is a 97+% survival rate.
 
A bit of an oversimplification and not exactly the words I would use, but yes, for the most part that's my position. I'd make an exception for intentionally infecting someone, and maybe for gross recklessness. Simply hosting an event or holding class with or without restrictions wouldn't qualify. That's the great thing about choice. You can choose to attend or not. You can choose to stay 6 ft away, etc.
Ah. Most of us use the phrase to mean that if I cause harm to you, then I should be held responsible for my actions.

Kind of a weird twist if "personal responsibility" means that you are being held responsible for something I did.
 
Ah. Most of us use the phrase to mean that if I cause harm to you, then I should be held responsible for my actions.

Kind of a weird twist if "personal responsibility" means that you are being held responsible for something I did.
I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
 
I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
You are asking for everyone else to ignore whether your choice is harming others. Then you go on to blame them for being selfish, and pat yourself on the back for your supposed “personal responsibility”.

You’ve got the whole notion of personal responsibility backwards. It is meant to be about each of us taking ownership of the consequances of our actions. It doesn’t mean I get to do whatever the hell I want, and then blame others for having the nerve to get in my way.
 
I was raised with personal responsibility being "don't blame others for the outcome of your choices". Own your choices. If that makes me weird, so be it.
Exactly. If you don't feel safe going to a bar, on a cruise, going to a concert don't go.

You have the choice.
 
You’ve got the whole notion of personal responsibility backwards. It is meant to be about each of us taking ownership of the consequances of our actions. It doesn’t mean I get to do whatever the hell I want, and then blame others for having the nerve to get in my way.

Really? Is the above any different than what Watfly said? I guess you could interpret his words as you stated. I happen to think the intent was the same as what you said. Then again I may be misinterpreting you.

Taking ownership of the consequences of your actions, not getting vaccinated and getting Covid, means you live with the consequences of your actions. You don’t get to blame everyone else for getting in the way of your desire to do whatever the hell you want while unvaccinated... you do get to make that choice and live with the consequences, if any.

To use the tired example of driving a car... every time you get behind the wheel you chose to take on the risk of being in a collision. If you’re drunk at the time and injure someone else or yourself, you live with those consequences (arrest, jail, injury or death). The other party isn’t to blame and yet still understood the risk that there are idiots out there putting them at risk. In this extreme example, the innocent party does have someone to blame and a legal system to provide what redress is possible.

If you’re just in an accident, (ex: caused by a flat tire, mechanical failure, sneeze, animal darting out into the road unexpectedly) regardless of who hit who, both drivers assumed that risk, however small, and have to live with the consequences of their actions.

The ‘drunk driver’ in Covid infections, now that there is ample vaccine access, is gross negligence, intentional infecting another, or exposing others when known to be Covid positive.

The ‘accident’ is when someone who is pre-symptomatic accidentally exposes someone who is not vaccinated, immunocompromised, etc. Both parties chose to be in a situation where they could potentially be exposed. (Note the pre-symptomatic carrier is unlikely to be vaccinated or is immunocompromised, etc. and made the same choice with the same risks while it was unknown to them that they were infected)
 
Really? Is the above any different than what Watfly said? I guess you could interpret his words as you stated. I happen to think the intent was the same as what you said. Then again I may be misinterpreting you.
If he didn't mischaracterize others' comments he would have nothing to debate.

I'm sitting here at a HS basketball game. Half the spectators are masked. For the life of me I don't understand how the school should be held liable for someone contracting Covid. Everyone is here on their own free will. They've assumed the risk.

I'm also sitting here wondering how these varsity basketball players don't look any taller than the U14 LAFC players my son played a couple weeks ago.
 
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