Bad News Thread

Grace T. said:
Sadly, neither is in my bailiwick of reading materials, probably because a. I have boys, and b. they both hopped over their young adult reading phase (younger is on Hunger Games and starting Treasure Island, older is on Les Miserables).
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Grace, consider an animated superhero. I recommend WordGirl for you. It's certainly not as highbrow as Yojimbo, but much better than what @dad4 has been suggesting.
 
dad4 said:
Masks were not obvious.

We have spent decades thinking that the purpose of a mask is to protect the wearer.

It took time for Fauci and everyone else to begin to think of masks as controlling the virus at the source.

The rest of your post is a non-scientist with photoshop trying to do science. There are statistical tools for that kind of work. If you don't know how to use them, that's fine, but you can respect the opinions of those who do.
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Yes I've noticed your statistical religiosity and your selective Science. Please don't make excuses for Fauci's mask mea culpa.
 
Desert Hound said:
No. We have tons of data from other states/countries that have been having classes since summer.

There isn't an issue.

The only people pretending there is are the unions and apparently you.
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Where do you get the idea that there have not been any problems? Israel first reported school based outbreaks several months ago.

That's like saying no one ever caught covid at a taqueria. It's just not true.
 
dad4 said:
That's like saying no one ever caught covid at a taqueria. It's just not true.
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No one is saying there have not been cases at schools.

However it hasn't been an issue.

Nationwide you have something like 250 deaths TOTAL under 17. Under 24 is well less than 1k.

Why you pretend it is otherwise is not rational.

To look at that data and think...hey you know what...to be safe we should hold classes outside means you have an issue understanding DATA.
 
Desert Hound said:
No one is saying there have not been cases at schools.

However it hasn't been an issue.

Nationwide you have something like 250 deaths TOTAL under 17. Under 24 is well less than 1k.

Why you pretend it is otherwise is not rational.

To look at that data and think...hey you know what...to be safe we should hold classes outside means you have an issue understanding DATA.
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Perhaps you should clarify what you mean by "an issue".

To you, a school outbreak is an issue if it has dead youth. Your post lists no other kind of potential issue.

Personally, I would count dead teachers or dead relatives as at least a minor issue. Raising the overall infection levels of infection in a community is also somewhat problematic. Your attempt at data addressed none of those questions.

Data is not just a body count of dead kids. Data includes estimates of the in-school infection rate, the expected increase to the number of cases in the community, the expected impact on overall Rt, and, by extension, an estimate for the extent to which the added cases do or do not cause deaths in a wider community outbreak.

It's not as simple as looking up under 17 mortality rates on google, and then writing "DATA" in capital letters.
 
dad4 said:
Perhaps you should clarify what you mean by "an issue".

To you, a school outbreak is an issue if it has dead youth. Your post lists no other kind of potential issue.

Personally, I would count dead teachers or dead relatives as at least a minor issue. Raising the overall infection levels of infection in a community is also somewhat problematic. Your attempt at data addressed none of those questions.

Data is not just a body count of dead kids. Data includes estimates of the in-school infection rate, the expected increase to the number of cases in the community, the expected impact on overall Rt, and, by extension, an estimate for the extent to which the added cases do or do not cause deaths in a wider community outbreak.

It's not as simple as looking up under 17 mortality rates on google, and then writing "DATA" in capital letters.
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The problem you have is you accept zero risk.

A substantial number of states and countries have had schools in person without issue. They have looked at teacher deaths, spread, etc.

And you know what they find? It isn't an issue.

The issue is places like CA that have 95% of the kids not taking in person classes and getting left behind.

As usual you run zero cost benefits when you look at this issue of covid.

A new variant? You want everyone to hide again, close biz, etc.

Over time you and the people who believe like you are a dwindling number.
 
Desert Hound said:
The problem you have is you accept zero risk.

A substantial number of states and countries have had schools in person without issue. They have looked at teacher deaths, spread, etc.

And you know what they find? It isn't an issue.

The issue is places like CA that have 95% of the kids not taking in person classes and getting left behind.

As usual you run zero cost benefits when you look at this issue of covid.

A new variant? You want everyone to hide again, close biz, etc.

Over time you and the people who believe like you are a dwindling number.
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I've no doubt that Dad4 can/will defend himself, but I can see his (a teacher) annoyance with you constant sounding off on the schools, because you ONLY pick one set of facts, which is true, and ignore the adults that are required to actually allow the schools to function. Kids are unlikely to get sick or seriously sick, but they can spread it, the youngers to a lesser extent and the teenagers the same as adults. Teaching in a room with 20/30 kids for 6 hours a day is an increased risk for an adult.

I'm happy my kids are in school and grateful that they can be. I'm especially grateful for those taking risks due to their age / conditions to make it happen.

BTW, my sister is a teacher ... got COVID, gave it to her daughter too before she knew she had it. Knocked her down for 2 weeks and took her another 2/3 weeks for her to fully recover. She's healthy, not in a risky age group and has no underlying conditions - not of that mattered.
 
whatithink said:
I've no doubt that Dad4 can/will defend himself, but I can see his (a teacher) annoyance with you constant sounding off on the schools, because you ONLY pick one set of facts, which is true, and ignore the adults that are required to actually allow the schools to function. Kids are unlikely to get sick or seriously sick, but they can spread it, the youngers to a lesser extent and the teenagers the same as adults. Teaching in a room with 20/30 kids for 6 hours a day is an increased risk for an adult.

I'm happy my kids are in school and grateful that they can be. I'm especially grateful for those taking risks due to their age / conditions to make it happen.

BTW, my sister is a teacher ... got COVID, gave it to her daughter too before she knew she had it. Knocked her down for 2 weeks and took her another 2/3 weeks for her to fully recover. She's healthy, not in a risky age group and has no underlying conditions - not of that mattered.
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To be fair as I discuss the schools, the numbers coming back show there have not been issues with the teachers as well.

So it is not a situation where the kids are OK, but the teachers are getting hammered. If there was an issue relating to the adults in the schools, the data and reports would show that.

The at risk population for covid are old individuals with health issues which is not the profile of teachers or admins at schools.

Look around other states and countries who have been had people in class now since summer/late aug. If there were an issue with teachers we would hear about it. The unions would be publishing the data on it.

Frankly we have LOTS of professions that are in constant contact with people ALL day long who go to work and do their job and are not dropping like flies are anywhere close to it. Actually let me rephrase that. Almost ALL professions are back at work and dealing with people on a daily basis.

So yes I sound off on schools and the teachers/unions that pretend they cannot safely go to work. Look at the data. Look at the various medical associations who recommend kids should be in school. They are not making those recommendations if they think teachers/admins are at risk.

So no I do not pick only one set of facts. Go look at the data of who is at risk of covid. It is the elderly and/or people with health issues.

The fact is in many large cities, the unions have screwed kids over by not having their members teach in person.
 
Leading Causes of Death
Data are for the U.S.
Number of deaths for leading causes of death
  • Heart disease: 659,041
  • Cancer: 599,601
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499
  • Diabetes: 87,647
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 51,565
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 49,783
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,511
Source: Mortality in the United States, 2019, data table for figure 2
 
whatithink said:
I've no doubt that Dad4 can/will defend himself, but I can see his (a teacher) annoyance with you constant sounding off on the schools, because you ONLY pick one set of facts, which is true, and ignore the adults that are required to actually allow the schools to function. Kids are unlikely to get sick or seriously sick, but they can spread it, the youngers to a lesser extent and the teenagers the same as adults. Teaching in a room with 20/30 kids for 6 hours a day is an increased risk for an adult.

I'm happy my kids are in school and grateful that they can be. I'm especially grateful for those taking risks due to their age / conditions to make it happen.

BTW, my sister is a teacher ... got COVID, gave it to her daughter too before she knew she had it. Knocked her down for 2 weeks and took her another 2/3 weeks for her to fully recover. She's healthy, not in a risky age group and has no underlying conditions - not of that mattered.
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Yet, we are forcing grocery store workers, restaurant workers, health care workers, meat packing plant employees, factor workers, television/news employees, Costco workers, bicycle store workers, Best Buy workers, gym employees, hairdressers, dental hygenists, liquor and marijuana store workers, and ice cream store workers to work. Teachers, who they say have the important job of teaching kids, somehow take a pass.
 
Grace T. said:
Yet, we are forcing grocery store workers, restaurant workers, health care workers, meat packing plant employees, factor workers, television/news employees, Costco workers, bicycle store workers, Best Buy workers, gym employees, hairdressers, dental hygenists, liquor and marijuana store workers, and ice cream store workers to work. Teachers, who they say have the important job of teaching kids, somehow take a pass.
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I think only the gym employees of those on your list could do a credible version of their job via Zoom meeting.
 
espola said:
I think only the gym employees of those on your list could do a credible version of their job via Zoom meeting.
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Well, the teachers aren't doing a very credible version of their jobs via remote learning (and there are many many sources, but since I know you love them, here's 3). The gym employees would actually have them beat.

www.cbsnews.com

All-remote learning is failing many students all across the country: "These children are struggling"

New studies suggest the disruption to in-person education is taking a heavy toll, from higher rates of failing grades to increased mental health incidents
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

www.chalkbeat.org

The empty gradebook: As students struggle with remote learning, teachers grapple with Fs

More students are failing classes. But teachers say they’ve tried to keep an even larger number from falling off track.
www.chalkbeat.org www.chalkbeat.org

www.washingtonexaminer.com

The remote learning failure continues

Remote education has been a failure. Children are failing, cutting class, and never getting to see their friends.
www.washingtonexaminer.com www.washingtonexaminer.com
.
 
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