D1 college soccer under threat

MacDre said:
Deyna Castellanos was nominated by FIFA in 2017 for the best player award. I also heard there were problems with awards in the NWSL this year so those trophies don’t help much.
I’m looking for personal views not just jumping on the bandwagon!
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Tobin Heath is a World Class Soccer Player. She has great skills, can beat players one v one, can make accurate passes under pressure, and is able to get back to defensively. If you watch her play, you will see that she plays goal to goal. Now, does she make mistakes? Yes. Are there times she made the wrong decision or whiffed the ball? Yes. Check out Messi and CR, they both lose the ball more times than they score. They both have whiffed the balls multiple times on 1v1s against goalies. Does that make them less of a player? no.
 
dad4 said:
LOTG as written, or as interpreted? They don’t match.

I have no problem with long ball. It is an essential part of keeping the opposing team honest as they pressure.

But a significant fraction of “direct” or “physical” soccer is really just a euphemism for running into the other players and shoving people around. To me, it’s clearly against LOTG, but seldom called.
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You seem to be on both sides of this argument.
 
Emma said:
Tobin Heath is a World Class Soccer Player. She has great skills, can beat players one v one, can make accurate passes under pressure, and is able to get back to defensively. If you watch her play, you will see that she plays goal to goal. Now, does she make mistakes? Yes. Are there times she made the wrong decision or whiffed the ball? Yes. Check out Messi and CR, they both lose the ball more times than they score. They both have whiffed the balls multiple times on 1v1s against goalies. Does that make them less of a player? no.
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Thanks. And for the record, I’m not talking trash about her. I have heard great things about her. I was just disappointed by her world cup performance. I also think I lost credibility with my kid because we specifically went to Lyon to see Heath and were both disappointed with her overall performance.

I am also new to soccer so I am not sure if I am evaluating Heath using the proper metrics. I get that players go in and out of form.
Are players like Heath rare? What distinguishes her from other wingers? Is there a game w/Heath that you could recommend I watch?
Why is an advanced winger/forward playing “box to box?”
 
dad4 said:
LOTG as written, or as interpreted? They don’t match.

I have no problem with long ball. It is an essential part of keeping the opposing team honest as they pressure.

But a significant fraction of “direct” or “physical” soccer is really just a euphemism for running into the other players and shoving people around. To me, it’s clearly against LOTG, but seldom called.
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Laws of the game are interpreted match to match by the HR and his staff. They are guidelines to follow to keep the game moving in a proper manner. Think of it as a speed limit. Some cops give you leeway at 10mph over and others stop everyone that goes 3mph over. Referees are the same thing. Howard Webb was a great ref. He was disciplined when needed but let the game manage itself for the most part.
Direct is not the same as physical. Two different things. A team can play direct and yet still not be physical and a physical team can also be very possessive. Direct also does not imply you 6 or 8s are wrecking ball although it can be more of the duty of a 6 to take a professional foul to stop the counter. Happens all the time in all the leagues.
 
vegasguy said:
Laws of the game are interpreted match to match by the HR and his staff. They are guidelines to follow to keep the game moving in a proper manner. Think of it as a speed limit. Some cops give you leeway at 10mph over and others stop everyone that goes 3mph over. Referees are the same thing. Howard Webb was a great ref. He was disciplined when needed but let the game manage itself for the most part.
Direct is not the same as physical. Two different things. A team can play direct and yet still not be physical and a physical team can also be very possessive. Direct also does not imply you 6 or 8s are wrecking ball although it can be more of the duty of a 6 to take a professional foul to stop the counter. Happens all the time in all the leagues.
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So why the disgust with Neymar? His antics seem like an appropriate response to professional fouls.
 
The problem with most people is this perception that the game of soccer is supposed to be played one way.
MacDre said:
No, it’s a serious question. I’m new to soccer and I don’t understand. Just seeking clarification. I am no expert buddy.
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Okay, McD. Now......I’m sorry. This last statement of yours clears up a whole lot, with regards to most, if not all, of your previous posts.
 
MacDre said:
Is Tobin Heath considered world class? Is it uncommon to see players like Heath? I’ve heard the term Coever monkey used for kids that are skillful but don’t know how to apply the skill because it wasn’t learned in the proper context-Do you think this term applies to Heath? What are your thoughts on Heath’s world cup performance? What am I missing?
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Simple answer is yes you are missing historical context. It is like asking if Paul Scholes was world class. Some can argue he benefitted from being with the MNU 94 class and was small talented on the ball. Ok scorer but missed passes and sitters for England NT. The other side of that is ask Xavi his opinion. He once called him the greatest midfielder he played against. See what those who know say. My opinion she had a piss poor world cup. But I thought and still think we hold on to glory to long on the womens side. We have so much talent and depth but we hold the previous team to esteem and give them their due. We are doing it now with Heath and Lloyd. Just my opinion. Spain has fallen into this trap and are trying to dig out. Germans too.

Heath is World Class a goal for kids to emmulate. By your thought process you may have a tough time saying Messi is World Class. Watch his last two World Cups. He had good games but man he made a ton of errors.
 
Kicknit22 said:
The problem with most people is this perception that the game of soccer is supposed to be played one way.

Okay, McD. Now......I’m sorry. This last statement of yours clears up a whole lot, with regards to most, if not all, of your previous posts.
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Elaborate. Share your perspective. Tell me why.
 
Kicknit22 said:
The problem with most people is this perception that the game of soccer is supposed to be played one way.

Okay, McD. Now......I’m sorry. This last statement of yours clears up a whole lot, with regards to most, if not all, of your previous posts.
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I;m new to dude. I came from hoops and baseball. This sport is nothing like I grew up in
 
MacDre said:
So why the disgust with Neymar? His antics seem like an appropriate response to professional fouls.
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Appropriate or embellished? He stays standing "Play on" may net a better result than free kick. The extra roll and loud screams are his reputation now. He is more Instagram twitter highlight that full substance. How many young boys did the Neymar at training during the last world cup. He great but doesn't have the drive of a Messi or Ronaldo.. he is a step below them and a just a step above Bale. Another wasted talent. Personality has something to do with this too I guess. It is just my opinion.
 
vegasguy said:
Thank you for the clarification i truly appreciate that and the kind words.

For debate purposes you did say there is no place for college soccer above the club level. You will miss out on doctors and lawyers and teachers who pulled themselves out their neighborhoods and found good mentors in college if they are only playing club level. I do not have numbers as club v college has never been studied but on one of my squads I can say that if they can not play college soccer they will most likely not have the means to go or the want to go. Club sports are paid and funded by the players. Intramural sports are free but different too.

America does have a style but we have lost our way. Not sure if you remember the 94 team, the 98, 02, team 06, & 10 and even 14 to a point. We are gritty, we defend and counter.. we do not possess like others and do not have the on the ball skill with a full team that others do but we have our style. We are adrift because everyone gets caught up we need to play more this way so we bring in players from Germany... or we need to play more Latin players because it is in their culture.. I do not deny we need to bring in our best but we need to bring in our best and play our way. Million ways to skin a cat.

It is not always pretty but not every La Liga or Serie A team plays pretty. Watch the ANC and you will not be watching pretty soccer but you will see pretty players. we have very very talented players but we are so caught up in the next Messi we lose our way. Be the next them.. Marta actually said that best.

I am a possession wanting to play out of the back coach. Others may disagree. The other team can not score if they do not have the ball but there are times you need to get past your own philosophy and change a bit to have success. I most recently told a squad do you want to be Arianna Grande or Meltallica. They got the point and really picked it up and before the end of it all this year we had hit our stride and had high hopes in the final four of state cup. Metallica is not always pretty but trust me their style is definitely effective and there is beauty in a mosh pit and a stage dive.

Hiding your daughter from a style whether you like it or not is not always the best. Tobin Heath has flair.. brash confidence and is setting you up for her next nutmeg.. you may not like it but it is awesome.. we all see the Ronaldino flair and successes.. you do not see the thousands of times it did not come off. Many would rather watch Messi but me.. I liked Inesta better. Give me Oliver Kahn over Ederson any day. We all have our opinions of beauty or most of us would still be single.

Lastly, no one is making excuses for skill or say it is ok to suck as long as you play with passion. We are competitive and want to win it is in our nature. The true soccer culture is not complacent in our desire to build better soccer and we are frustrated that the needle is not being moved faster. But we also are realists and know the managers of the pyramid may be the one making it crumble.
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There was an article written by the LA Galaxy 5, 6, 7 years ago, not sure. But in it, they talked about how soccer was changed for at least the next decade or more because of a US National Coach, a former UCLA coach, as I remember, in the early 90's, and how his politics of selecting 3/4 of the national team pool of being current or former UCLA players excluding some of the top talent in the country. It is politics like that which inhibits the country moving forward with talent in the soccer world. I wish they would republish the article. In the end it is the coaches in the trenches trying to develop players from the very youngest to the oldest that will determine our future as a competitive country. No matter how all this turns out, we will at least have a population that loves the game and will raise little ballers so who knows what the future holds.
 
dad4 said:
Long ball to a person makes sense to stretch the defense.

What does that have to do with encouraging your CM to play like a wrecking ball?
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Nothing. That was my point.

You said "But a significant fraction of “direct” or “physical” soccer is really just a euphemism for running into the other players and shoving people around. To me, it’s clearly against LOTG, but seldom called. "
 
Kicknit22 said:
The problem with most people is this perception that the game of soccer is supposed to be played one way.
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Without getting out of my couch I can think of different styles that are commonly called possession, direct, park the bus, and kill time - to say nothing of different strategies for set plays. A well-coached team may only be proficient in one particular style, but a well-coached defense should be able to recognize what style the opponent is playing and match it appropriately.
 
vegasguy said:
Appropriate or embellished? He stays standing "Play on" may net a better result than free kick. The extra roll and loud screams are his reputation now. He is more Instagram twitter highlight that full substance. How many young boys did the Neymar at training during the last world cup. He great but doesn't have the drive of a Messi or Ronaldo.. he is a step below them and a just a step above Bale. Another wasted talent. Personality has something to do with this too I guess. It is just my opinion.
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For this debate, let’s go with embellished. I think an embellished overreaction is an appropriate response for a offensive player to deter professional defensive fouls.
 
espola said:
Without getting out of my couch I can think of different styles that are commonly called possession, direct, park the bus, and kill time - to say nothing of different strategies for set plays. A well-coached team may only be proficient in one particular style, but a well-coached defense should be able to recognize what style the opponent is playing and match it appropriately.
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Just as a well coached can change their formation mid game to adjust to the opponent
 
So what? I grew up a football and baseball player. But soccer has always been around. Doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about it, or basketball, or any other sport. I’m a sports junkie! Sure, rules. I learned once my kiddos got into into it. I’m very competitive. Not ultra, but pretty nuts sometimes. I admit it. The point of competition is to win. So, whatever style works to gain the W, ultimately is what matters. Just my opinion. If you can’t stop the long ball to the speedy forward, your problem. One team needs to adjust, period! Or you lose. All the fancy footwork is impressive as hell, entertaining, and fun to watch. But, in the end, if it doesn’t help you win the game, just for show. Like the great Herm Edwards said, “you play to win the game”. I can appreciate all styles. But, and this is purely personal opinion, cannot stand to watch MOST men’s games due to flopping and rolling around screaming agony. Just can’t stand it. Hardly watchable to me. I LOVE pure athleticism. Often on display in both the men’s and women’s games.
So, in my opinion, the USMNT needs to figure out how to be winners and adopt a winners attitude. This is something they try hard to pretend to have. Just seems like we’ve always been the second tier nation. Not our national pastime, so we’re the ones trying to fit in with the big boys of Europe. Women have been the bad asses for so long, everyone else is wanting to fit into their crowd. I don’t see the men ever getting there. Unless they start playing like a bunch of US women, and stop acting like a bunch of little pansies. For now, I’m sticking with the winners. GO LADIES!
 
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