Referees - what can we all do to improve the situation?

TangoCity said:
We video tape every game. We have captured some awful game deciding calls and some incredibly dirty/dangerous play by "a certain team" (two separate things). From my experience, NOBODY cares about your video unless it is elevated to an extremely high level on both sides. Even with all this concussion training that they make parents/kids take before you can play in the gaming circuit, when it comes down to kids actually getting concussions and going to emergency rooms -> THEY STILL DON'T CARE (They = Cal South, CSL). With the concussion training THEY are only just checking a box for liability purposes. Keep video taping but keep in mind that nobody (I mean nobody) will give a sh-- about the bad call(s) that you taped.
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Maybe with CSL, but I know that video has changed things. When my daughter was playing youth soccer her coach submitted video to SCDSL twice which resulted in the other team forfeiting the game and a red card over turned. In the forfeited game the CR was one of the other team’s players fathers. The match report listed him as the AR. The video that showed the dad as the CR was submitted and the score changed. The other one happened when one of my daughter’s teammates was on the receiving end of a fight and the referee red carded both players. The video was submitted that showed my DD teammate just covering her face with her arms and not punching or pushing like the CR reported. Red card was removed. The coach also submitted video to referee associations several times to show poor referee performance and I know of one referee that got some extra education, because the ref was complaining to me about my DD coach submitting video.
 
Surfref said:
Maybe with CSL, but I know that video has changed things. When my daughter was playing youth soccer her coach submitted video to SCDSL twice which resulted in the other team forfeiting the game and a red card over turned. In the forfeited game the CR was one of the other team’s players fathers. The match report listed him as the AR. The video that showed the dad as the CR was submitted and the score changed. The other one happened when one of my daughter’s teammates was on the receiving end of a fight and the referee red carded both players. The video was submitted that showed my DD teammate just covering her face with her arms and not punching or pushing like the CR reported. Red card was removed. The coach also submitted video to referee associations several times to show poor referee performance and I know of one referee that got some extra education, because the ref was complaining to me about my DD coach submitting video.
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i'm sure it is considered in situations where it is warranted. as for any league not caring about concussion protocol..... i can only speak to the leagues that i work in, and they are all very serious about it. i would assume that is the case with all of them.
 
TangoCity said:
SNIP
With the concussion training THEY are only just checking a box for liability purposes.
SNIP
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I'm a team manager that has had to process several concussions. I can assure you that Cal-South and Presidio care about concussions, certainly ensuring that the rules are followed. I realize that it took a lawsuit and state law to do it, but I believe that the education required has changed a lot of opinions. It certainly has for me!!

I'm not so jaded to believe that it is just about covering their arses.
 
TangoCity said:
We video tape every game. We have captured some awful game deciding calls and some incredibly dirty/dangerous play by "a certain team" (two separate things). From my experience, NOBODY cares about your video unless it is elevated to an extremely high level on both sides. Even with all this concussion training that they make parents/kids take before you can play in the gaming circuit, when it comes down to kids actually getting concussions and going to emergency rooms -> THEY STILL DON'T CARE (They = Cal South, CSL). With the concussion training THEY are only just checking a box for liability purposes. Keep video taping but keep in mind that nobody (I mean nobody) will give a sh-- about the bad call(s) that you taped.
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Last weekend I was watching my DDs college game. One of girls from the opposing team took a ball to her face. The trainer stepped onto the field but the girl had already recovered and was standing. The ref told the coach that the player had to leave the field for evaluation... the coach lost it. She started screaming at the ref that her player dod not have to leave the field. The game was in the second half and 0-0 at the time so I get the coach not wanting to play down a player for a few minutes but why not just sub her out so the player can be properly evaluated? Saftey of the players should come first.

On an unrelated call later in the half the coach was given a yellow card.
 
Multi Sport said:
Last weekend I was watching my DDs college game. One of girls from the opposing team took a ball to her face. The trainer stepped onto the field but the girl had already recovered and was standing. The ref told the coach that the player had to leave the field for evaluation... the coach lost it. She started screaming at the ref that her player dod not have to leave the field. The game was in the second half and 0-0 at the time so I get the coach not wanting to play down a player for a few minutes but why not just sub her out so the player can be properly evaluated? Saftey of the players should come first.

On an unrelated call later in the half the coach was given a yellow card.
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"Unrelated"
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There is a battle between common sense and "rather be safe than sorry" for every head contact incident that isn't obvious.

Isn't one of the concussion lingering effects: emotional outburst?
 
When we sent video in, the head of CSL literally told us on the phone that they DIDN'T want to see the video. They said they have thousands of games every season and that they didn't have the personnel to look at video sent in from every single game and even if they did watch the video there was nothing they could do. The video had to do with (safety) dirty play and concussions more so than how the ref managed the game. The only thing they cared about was that the proper paperwork was filled out to report the concussion (covering their butts). I am glad other people have had better experiences in other gaming circuits.
 
TangoCity said:
When we sent video in, the head of CSL literally told us on the phone that they DIDN'T want to see the video. They said they have thousands of games every season and that they didn't have the personnel to look at video sent in from every single game and even if they did watch the video there was nothing they could do.
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Who sent the video in?

I have to think that they want complaints to come from a club director or someone in a similar role. This would allow a 'first line of defense' against frivolous and ignorant complaints from the general parent population. I shudder to think of what it would take to thoughtfully respond to all parent's concerns themselves. I imagine they would have to take on a lot more staff and it would necessitate clubs doing more work as well.
 
Sitting here before my next game watching an all Latino team play in the classic Mexican style (push it up, very physical, lots of elbows) v a united team playing modern English with very pretty techniques (they can head with accuracy, great passing, very fast). Ref is fit, knows the laws, hispanic, but has an expansive definition of trifling and has let them game get away from him. Both teams ready to murder the ref and each other after Latino team conks kid in the head with a jab from the elbow. Kid taken out for concussion protocol. No card. It’s these differing expectations coupled with poor ref management that leads to these situations. Fortunately the whistle before things exploded.
 
Last Saturday I had absolutely horrible and lazy parters both when they were in the center and especially as AR’s. Yesterday I was the center on 4 games and had two youth referees, 12 and 13 years old, that were in their first 6 months of refereeing. These two youth AR’s did an outstanding job, ran hard and followed my pregame instruction. All of the coaches were respectful to the youth refs except one and he adjusted his attitude after I had a talk with him. No spectator problems.

Today I watched my daughter coach her girls team. The CR and one AR did a good job, but the other adult male AR did not run and was always 10 to 25 yards behind the last defender and made several offside calls despite being 20 yards from the last defender.

What really upsets me is that these adult referees are getting paid to do a job, so they should be running and engaged with the game.
 
Some video evidence may be reviewed. Most will not. The league organizations don't have enough time to get everything done as it is and so they won't spend lots of extra time looking into issues like video evidence from games. Big problems (both teams fighting and potential criminal issues) will of course be investigated but most smaller issues will not, that's the reality.

This is why a referee/coach/parent rating system is the next logical step towards accountability for everyone involved in youth soccer. Let's face it, that's really what the game needs. There are so many people involved in the game that do not have the interests of the players/kids as their primary concern; those are the people that need to be exposed by a rating/review system so that we can continue to improve youth soccer by weeding them out. One thing is very clear to me after a number of years being completely immersed in it; youth soccer is not in a great state and desperately needs improvement across the board.
 
TangoCity said:
Do a review and come up with an honest finding and report that finding to club. It was not the first complaint about that team and their number of yellow/red cards equaled the entire rest of the league.
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Csl already has discipline in place for this.
20 points = 1 point deduction in standings
30 points = 2 add. Deduction in standings
40 points = auto removal from all gaming circuit and possible forfeit of any games played during that season.

Yellow = 1 point
Red = 2 points
This includes players coaches and spectators.

What more do you want from the league than they already do.
 
Caltek said:
Csl already has discipline in place for this.
20 points = 1 point deduction in standings
30 points = 2 add. Deduction in standings
40 points = auto removal from all gaming circuit and possible forfeit of any games played during that season.

Yellow = 1 point
Red = 2 points
This includes players coaches and spectators.

What more do you want from the league than they already do.
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You didn't read the entire thread.
 
TangoCity said:
You didn't read the entire thread.
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I did read the entire thread my post had to do with your issue with a specific team. My comment stated that csl does have punishment written out on how they deal with teams like this. My dealings with all gaming circuits is they will not listen unless its brought through proper chain of command usually your club representative or doc or who ever deals with the gaming circuit from the club. They don't like individuals or managers of teams or parents comming to them with issues. One reason is you club administer usually knows more about what they want yo see or proper procedure on how to file grievances. Just my dealings having managed teams in both leagues.
 
Caltek said:
Csl already has discipline in place for this.
20 points = 1 point deduction in standings
30 points = 2 add. Deduction in standings
40 points = auto removal from all gaming circuit and possible forfeit of any games played during that season.

Yellow = 1 point
Red = 2 points
This includes players coaches and spectators.

What more do you want from the league than they already do.
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You can get 10 red cards in a season before the deduct a point?
Although I guess if you get that many cards and have players serving multiple game suspensions, the point deduction probably won’t matter much.
 
timbuck said:
You can get 10 red cards in a season before the deduct a point?
Although I guess if you get that many cards and have players serving multiple game suspensions, the point deduction probably won’t matter much.
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Well CSL may not be enforcing the rules and they don't seem to deter anybody so what's the point? https://coastsoccer.us/web/coastsoccer/standings?SEX=B&AGE=15&BRACKET=0P&YEAR=2018 for example.

The time out after the yellow card or the ban after 2 reds like HS does is more of a deterrent or even the 1 game after 5 yellows in DA but that might be a bit harsh. At least it's not like DSL where they don't really track them much at all with the so-called coach honor system.
 
timbuck said:
You can get 10 red cards in a season before the deduct a point?
Although I guess if you get that many cards and have players serving multiple game suspensions, the point deduction probably won’t matter much.
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10 red cards would be 30 points and a total of 3 point deduction. 1 for reaching 20 points and 2 additional for reaching 30
 
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