SoCal Soccer Attitude Change

Zvezdas said:
Interesting, i am not associated w express and don't know anything about that particular match, but why is express coach "f moron"? Coaches regularly interact with refs during the game, asking for explanations on certain calls or questioning certain calls...its funny when the protected class lashes out, but when people raise issues about the quality of refereeing some are too quick to play the role of perennial victims. I grew up in Europe and our refs earned their respect with knowledge and authority, what i have seen in the last four years (U8-12 boys soccer scdsl/coast) is ridiculous, I even took my father in law who was second division ref in Yugoslavia to some of my son's matches and he could not believe how low the quality of officiating is at the U9/10/11 level...there is lots of talk about regulative body that sanctions the refs, how is moving awful ref from officiating lets say U16 games down to U10 beneficial? In these four years i only witnessed a few great officials in the gaming circuit where my son played, i wish there is more of them...
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Seriously, what positive outcome can arise from an adult coach questioning the calls of a 13 year old referee in a U8 match? Is going to gain an edge?

Ridiculous. That's what the discussion is, not what you or father in law think of youth referees.
 
baldref said:
Seriously, what positive outcome can arise from an adult coach questioning the calls of a 13 year old referee in a U8 match? Is going to gain an edge?

Ridiculous. That's what the discussion is, not what you or father in law think of youth referees.
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Sorry for upseting you ref, we dont know what type of "questioning" occured, maybe "f coach" asked for an explanation of certain decision made by the ref? If you are not to question, ask, communicate w refs in u8, 10, 15 well let me know when is ok to ask for an explanation, at what age level is ok to do that? This type of an attitude feeds spectators and coaches, officials in cal south deserve such spectators and vice versa...its ridiculous to expect people on sidelines to behave properly when officials are so trigger happy to attack people with different opinions or even worse label someone moron...
 
Zvezdas said:
Sorry for upseting you ref, we dont know what type of "questioning" occured, maybe "f coach" asked for an explanation of certain decision made by the ref? If you are not to question, ask, communicate w refs in u8, 10, 15 well let me know when is ok to ask for an explanation, at what age level is ok to do that? This type of an attitude feeds spectators and coaches, officials in cal south deserve such spectators and vice versa...its ridiculous to expect people on sidelines to behave properly when officials are so trigger happy to attack people with different opinions or even worse label someone moron...
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Upset me? You can't upset me.
But you didn't answer my question, did you.
Instead you made something up about someone attacking someone and that's the excuse for a U8 coach questioning calls of a youth referee.

I know people like you don't get it. But what you're defending is not acceptable.
 
baldref said:
Upset me? You can't upset me.
But you didn't answer my question, did you.
Instead you made something up about someone attacking someone and that's the excuse for a U8 coach questioning calls of a youth referee.

I know people like you don't get it. But what you're defending is not acceptable.
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I dont get it because you know who i am, my background etc.? This coach questioned a call of a ref in u8 and thats something that warrants all this nonsense? In certain European countries we question calls even in youth games, we have a friendly talk with ref, i guess here thats prohibited in youth soccer, but educate me when is it allowed? Again, sorry i am not raised in the US, so all this fuss with ejecting parents from youth level games, coming up with these arbitrary rules with what type of support is allowed by parents and coaches is pretty foreign and ridiculous to me...yes i dont get it, its pretty amusing and shocking, it can only "fly" here in the states i guess?
 
Zvezdas said:
I dont get it because you know who i am, my background etc.? This coach questioned a call of a ref in u8 and thats something that warrants all this nonsense? In certain European countries we question calls even in youth games, we have a friendly talk with ref, i guess here thats prohibited in youth soccer, but educate me when is it allowed? Again, sorry i am not raised in the US, so all this fuss with ejecting parents from youth level games, coming up with these arbitrary rules with what type of support is allowed by parents and coaches is pretty foreign and ridiculous to me...yes i dont get it, its pretty amusing and shocking, it can only "fly" here in the states i guess?
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I guess......
I'd explain it again but there seems to be a lack of comprehension
And still no answer to my question, but I didn't expect one..... Have a great evening
 
baldref said:
I guess......
I'd explain it again but there seems to be a lack of comprehension
And still no answer to my question, but I didn't expect one..... Have a great

Yeah it must be a lack of comprehension...jesus, the wonderful world of cal south refs :) have a nice evening!
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Zvezdas said:
Sorry for upseting you ref, we dont know what type of "questioning" occured, maybe "f coach" asked for an explanation of certain decision made by the ref? If you are not to question, ask, communicate w refs in u8, 10, 15 well let me know when is ok to ask for an explanation, at what age level is ok to do that? This type of an attitude feeds spectators and coaches, officials in cal south deserve such spectators and vice versa...its ridiculous to expect people on sidelines to behave properly when officials are so trigger happy to attack people with different opinions or even worse label someone moron...
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Given that there is a shortage of referees in SoCal, and given that referees need to start and learn somewhere, you don't see any problem with a coach who is a fully grown man questioning the decisions of a 13 year old boy that is learning to be a ref during a U8 game? While his tone of voice was not unpleasant, the fact that he was questioning many calls during the game may discourage some children from continuing as referees as well as the fact that he was setting a poor example for his team of 7 year old players. Remember, this was a U8 game and the results will never matter. No body got hurt and the coach that was questioning the call had a team that was dominating the game and went on to win 8-1. I wonder how he acts when his team is losing?
 
outside! said:
Given that there is a shortage of referees in SoCal, and given that referees need to start and learn somewhere, you don't see any problem with a coach who is a fully grown man questioning the decisions of a 13 year old boy that is learning to be a ref during a U8 game? While his tone of voice was not unpleasant, the fact that he was questioning many calls during the game may discourage some children from continuing as referees as well as the fact that he was setting a poor example for his team of 7 year old players. Remember, this was a U8 game and the results will never matter. No body got hurt and the coach that was questioning the call had a team that was dominating the game and went on to win 8-1. I wonder how he acts when his team is losing?
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Listen i dont know how unpleasant that coach was, but maybe they should not allow 13 year olds officiate, if its that dangerous and stressful why expose kids to danger? I understand its voluntary right? We dont have refs at u8 back home, are they really necessary? Why would ref worry about coaches behavior, they have power in this country to eject coach and all the spectators on the sideline, so why all this crying about behavior and comments? I would like all this complaing to stop, if you volunteered for the job and are very passionate about the sport then how you americans say it "deal with it"! I am done with all this ref stuff, enjoy and have fun...
 
If this thread is an indication of the atmosphere of the games that this young ref is going to be exposed to then I hope every coach that he is exposed to questions some of his calls. I have no problem with a coach tactfully questioning a ref . Apparently the refs on this site do. It seams they believe that they have unquestionable authority to do whatever they want and when people question them, critique them, or challenge them they chalk up them up as physco parents, uneducated soccer followers, and overbearing coaches. If this young ref is unable to handle a coach such as that perhaps he chose the wrong part time job, shortage of refs or not. He probably got more of an education by being questioned and either having to explain his reasoning or ignoring the coach than if not. Our society has weakened our kids by never holding them to any standard for fear of discouraging them, everybody gets a trophy, lets not keep score, etc etc. Somebody is gonna question him as a ref sooner or later. I say sooner is better. But according to the refs on here, I dont get it, i am a moron, and i am making my kids into sociopaths, and I probably flip burgers for a living......
 
wildcat66 said:
If this thread is an indication of the atmosphere of the games that this young ref is going to be exposed to then I hope every coach that he is exposed to questions some of his calls. I have no problem with a coach tactfully questioning a ref . Apparently the refs on this site do. It seams they believe that they have unquestionable authority to do whatever they want and when people question them, critique them, or challenge them they chalk up them up as physco parents, uneducated soccer followers, and overbearing coaches. If this young ref is unable to handle a coach such as that perhaps he chose the wrong part time job, shortage of refs or not. He probably got more of an education by being questioned and either having to explain his reasoning or ignoring the coach than if not. Our society has weakened our kids by never holding them to any standard for fear of discouraging them, everybody gets a trophy, lets not keep score, etc etc. Somebody is gonna question him as a ref sooner or later. I say sooner is better. But according to the refs on here, I dont get it, i am a moron, and i am making my kids into sociopaths, and I probably flip burgers for a living......
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What a load of malarkey. Our society this, our society that, bla, bla, bla. One thing is true, read your post and you will understand.
 
wildcat66 said:
huh?
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You called yourself a moron, haha. While I would not go that far, if any of the idiocy that takes place in our youth soccer on all fronts is so disturbing to you, perhaps you should take genesis, yourself, and all of our misplaced energy with less importance? Just a thought.
 
Surfref said:
Because the Express coach was evidently a f'ing moron. You should have video taped the moron and sent it into the league and ref assoc. Presidio is good about protecting the youth referees and would have suspended te moron. Tell him to stick with it.
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If the Express coach questioned some calls in a polite tone, he's a f'ing moron and you want him suspended, do you feel the same way if the same kid wears a jersey and the coach questions in a polite tone his plays?
 
genesis said:
You called yourself a moron, haha. While I would not go that far, if any of the idiocy that takes place in our youth soccer on all fronts is so disturbing to you, perhaps you should take genesis, yourself, and all of our misplaced energy with less importance? Just a thought.
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Believe me, I place very little importance on what goes on this forum or in soccer in general. My DD plays and likes the sport, me not so much. Honestly, just a way to entertain myself while I work the graveyard shift occasionally to help pay for the darn sport. I do enjoy a good debate though especially with those who get so riled up in here. My DD has one more year and off to college so after that you will not see my ugly mug on here again.....
 
outside! said:
Given that there is a shortage of referees in SoCal, and given that referees need to start and learn somewhere, you don't see any problem with a coach who is a fully grown man questioning the decisions of a 13 year old boy that is learning to be a ref during a U8 game? While his tone of voice was not unpleasant, the fact that he was questioning many calls during the game may discourage some children from continuing as referees as well as the fact that he was setting a poor example for his team of 7 year old players. Remember, this was a U8 game and the results will never matter. No body got hurt and the coach that was questioning the call had a team that was dominating the game and went on to win 8-1. I wonder how he acts when his team is losing?
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If a coach questions your kid's calls in a polite and pleasant tone, that's not abuse. That's life. In school, fully grown adults will question his work ethics. On the field, coaches will question his effort, toughness or abilities. Once he's learned to drive, he'll be cut off on the freeway. His steaks will be overcooked. Life is not perfect. Neither are people. Maturity in part is the ability to accept people's mistakes, as long as it doesn't arise to abuse. What he can learn is that with authority comes boundaries and accountability, unlike what a couple of refs on this forum have you believe, whether he becomes student body president, congressman or CEO. Not all minor wrongs can or need be remedied.

Specific to being a ref, when a coach questions his calls - as long as it's done in a non-disparaging manner - it gives him an opportunity to develop a healthy mindset and different perspectives. With a sense of accountability, he'll eventually learn to defuse situations with a quick explanation. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was very impressed with a ref. He gave a yellow card on what appeared to be a minor foul. He quickly turned around and told the coach "Too many verbals." Being a good ref involves more than knowing LOTG. It involves humility. The ability to see how others could reasonable perceive things differently. The ability to agree to disagree.

On this particular incident, I simply disagree with you.
 
Laced said:
If a coach questions your kid's calls in a polite and pleasant tone, that's not abuse. That's life. In school, fully grown adults will question his work ethics. On the field, coaches will question his effort, toughness or abilities. Once he's learned to drive, he'll be cut off on the freeway. His steaks will be overcooked. Life is not perfect. Neither are people. Maturity in part is the ability to accept people's mistakes, as long as it doesn't arise to abuse. What he can learn is that with authority comes boundaries and accountability, unlike what a couple of refs on this forum have you believe, whether he becomes student body president, congressman or CEO. Not all minor wrongs can or need be remedied.

Specific to being a ref, when a coach questions his calls - as long as it's done in a non-disparaging manner - it gives him an opportunity to develop a healthy mindset and different perspectives. With a sense of accountability, he'll eventually learn to defuse situations with a quick explanation. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was very impressed with a ref. He gave a yellow card on what appeared to be a minor foul. He quickly turned around and told the coach "Too many verbals." Being a good ref involves more than knowing LOTG. It involves humility. The ability to see how others could reasonable perceive things differently. The ability to agree to disagree.

On this particular incident, I simply disagree with you.
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amen to that
 
Laced said:
Being a good ref involves more than knowing LOTG. It involves humility. The ability to see how others could reasonable perceive things differently. The ability to agree to disagree.
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I totally agree and appreciate this being said. Make a poster.

The above applies to parents and coaches as well. I saw this in a microcosm of 2 games I refereed over the weekend. We all came to genuine, peaceful understanding and acceptance of our disagreements. During a break in action a coach asked me, as an AR, how I saw the player as being in an off-side position when they were shoulder to shoulder. I explained that when the ball was played through, the player was ahead of the defender, but that it had gone back and forth. If I wasn't sure, I wouldn't have signaled. He was fine and we moved on. I felt absolutely no animosity about being questioned. In the preceding game, I even had a parent and coach tell a parent, who wasn't even behaving out of the norm, that he should 'get a jersey'. I mentioned to him, as a ball was being retrieved, that I had to call it as I saw it from the field and the game wasn't going to turn on the throw in, he agreed, we both chuckled and that was the end of it.

This whole thread, as a reflection of the message board itself, has once again disintegrated into people "shouting" past each other about fringe elements behind them. While officiating, coaching and spectating during a match, you have to consider the other's perspective when considering decisions during play.

There are good referees and bad ones. Good coaches and bad ones. It serves no purpose, especially here, to lump decent, open minded people in with those that, frankly, aren't!! Referee's, coaches and parents shouldn't assume that just because one is being criticized, all are. We also have to admit that we know and have seen some really bad examples of 'ourselves' out there. The funny thing is, most people here do admit that, but their detractors seem to disregard the openness.

Nothing positive will come from continuing this thread. Maybe the next one similar to it that pops up this month will turn out different. But it will have a long history of failure preceding it.
 
Zvezdas said:
Sorry for upseting you ref, we dont know what type of "questioning" occured, maybe "f coach" asked for an explanation of certain decision made by the ref? If you are not to question, ask, communicate w refs in u8, 10, 15 well let me know when is ok to ask for an explanation, at what age level is ok to do that? This type of an attitude feeds spectators and coaches, officials in cal south deserve such spectators and vice versa...its ridiculous to expect people on sidelines to behave properly when officials are so trigger happy to attack people with different opinions or even worse label someone moron...
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It has nothing to do with the age of the players. It has everything to do with the age of the referee. Cal South, Presidio/SDDA, SCDSL, CSL and ECNL will back a youth referee 100 percent. When I have a youth referee on my crew, CR or AR, the coaches and managers get one warning before the game. All Cal South coaches know not to make and comments or questions toward a youth referee. There is zero tolerance for any comments/questions to a youth referee. The quickest way for spectators or coaches to get thrown out of a game is to yell at a youth referee. I worked with a 14 year old referee on two GU9 games. These were his first two games in the center. Riptide was the home team and I cannot remember who the visiting teams were. All four coaches told the spectators to say nothing to the refs. The Riptide coaches and spectators went out of their way after the game to provided positive comments to the youth referee and told him great job. The youth referee was all smiles and left the field with Some new found confidence. Those Riptide coaches understood that yelling at the youth referee would only make him want to quit and that positive comments would keep him coming back.

There is NEVER a good time when it is appropriate to yell negative comments or question a youth referee.
 
Laced said:
If a coach questions your kid's calls in a polite and pleasant tone, that's not abuse. That's life. In school, fully grown adults will question his work ethics. On the field, coaches will question his effort, toughness or abilities. Once he's learned to drive, he'll be cut off on the freeway. His steaks will be overcooked. Life is not perfect. Neither are people. Maturity in part is the ability to accept people's mistakes, as long as it doesn't arise to abuse. What he can learn is that with authority comes boundaries and accountability, unlike what a couple of refs on this forum have you believe, whether he becomes student body president, congressman or CEO. Not all minor wrongs can or need be remedied.

Specific to being a ref, when a coach questions his calls - as long as it's done in a non-disparaging manner - it gives him an opportunity to develop a healthy mindset and different perspectives. With a sense of accountability, he'll eventually learn to defuse situations with a quick explanation. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was very impressed with a ref. He gave a yellow card on what appeared to be a minor foul. He quickly turned around and told the coach "Too many verbals." Being a good ref involves more than knowing LOTG. It involves humility. The ability to see how others could reasonable perceive things differently. The ability to agree to disagree.

On this particular incident, I simply disagree with you.
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What you fail to understand is that Cal South and all the leagues have laid out guidance for the coaches that they WILL NOT comment or question the calls of youth referees. There is no wording saying that it is okay to politely question a youth referee. No comments or questions means just that.

The logic behind this policy is fairly simple. An adult questioning, even politely, a 12-16 year old can be intimidating to that kid. I cannot put it any simpler than that. If you still don't understand, than I feel sorry for you.
 
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