What is too aggressive?

[Joh Incredible]

My daughter recently played a game where both teams were shoving each other all game, both sides were complaining to the refs but the refs let them play . My question is does this bother anyone else? Or do we have to teach our DD to do the same and shove back?

 

[KONI]

My daughter recently played a game where both teams were shoving each other all game, both sides were complaining to the refs but the refs let them play . My question is does this bother anyone else? Or do we have to teach our DD to do the same and shove back?

Unfortunately the referees rarely call anything unless someone gets completely obliterated...rarely was anything called in my dd's games....My dd learned very quickly to play strong and physical in order to not be pushed around...sometimes girls take it a little to far during games though...

 

[coachrefparent]

8 year old (and all ages) girls and boys playing soccer need to understand it is a contact sport, not like golf, chess, or tennis. This understanding should come from their coaches and parents.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

My question is does this bother anyone else? Or do we have to teach our DD to do the same and shove back?

It is a bit of a shocker when you see it for the first time at this young age and you know the pushing is intentional. But it only gets more physical here on out. So, yes...you have to teach them to learn how to use their body as leverage so that they don't get pushed off the ball. Teach how to pull back/change direction away from pressure (and/or give a little shove to see the other player fly by).

 

[espola]

One of my cherished memories of soccer is when the referee of one of my kids' indoor games showed my son at halftime how to hold an opponent's jersey in a manner that would not be obvious to a ref.

 

[Joh Incredible]

So probably my next question is why do so many people complain about pushing and shoving in soccer? I guess you just have to deal with it and get over it

 

[KONI]

So probably my next question is why do so many people complain about pushing and shoving in soccer? I guess you just have to deal with it and get over it

Like Rainbow said...I believe it's a shock to parents..especially those with limited soccer background or coming from rec leagues. Club is very physical but you also get a wide range of teams at this age from no physicality at all to some teams that basically play roller derby!

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

So probably my next question is why do so many people complain about pushing and shoving in soccer? I guess you just have to deal with it and get over it

It's just the infuriating nature of soccer. You can do whatever you want (pull/push/kick/punch other player) in soccer...as long as the ref doesn't see it. And sometimes you have refs that do see it but don't know how to use their whistle. And then you have refs that use their whistle whenever they can even if a player just lays a finger on a player.

The important thing to remember is that all of this (bad calls, bad refs, dirty players) is part of the game. But it's also important to note that no matter how good a ref is, they will be swayed to a certain degree by how much the players/coach/parents yell at them. It's a fine line (almost like an art) because you can't yell too much and piss off the ref...but you can't remain quiet or else you will never get those "make-up" calls. Refs don't factor in too much at this age...but their influence on the game does increase with age.

And probably the best thing you can do is help your kid develop their skills so that they can trump dirty/physical players with their skill and speed. A sign of a highly skilled player is that they typically draw the most fouls.

 

[younothat]

Aggression is fine, learning to control emotions and playing without fouling is a learned experience.

When does aggression cross the line: Punching, biting, poking is a bit too much. Constant fouling, like 6+procession in a row gets old.

Some games can resemble a rugby match, script; "Let them play 1st half", 2nd half; cards and fouls start to add up

 

[PLSAP]

My daughter recently played a game where both teams were shoving each other all game, both sides were complaining to the refs but the refs let them play . My question is does this bother anyone else? Or do we have to teach our DD to do the same and shove back?

In a nutshell, from my experiences, the ref typically shows how he will let the game be played in the first 20 min (showing card for big fouls, keep calling fouls, or not calling etc). It dictates how this game is going to be. I think it comes from the mindset where he lets one go for one team, the other team does the same thing, he decides not to call it to keep the referring fair, and it escalates from there. From what I've seen, it's typically just the game/ref, especially if both teams are doing it. On the other hand, if it's just one team, it's a great learning experience for yours to learn how to still play clean, good soccer and keeping there patience.

 

[Lambchop]

Like Rainbow said...I believe it's a shock to parents..especially those with limited soccer background or coming from rec leagues. Club is very physical but you also get a wide range of teams at this age from no physicality at all to some teams that basically play roller derby!

Or they should be playing rugby!

 

[Surfref]

?.".But it's also important to note that no matter how good a ref is, they will be swayed to a certain degree by how much the players/coach/parents yell at them. It's a fine line (almost like an art) because you can't yell too much and piss off the ref...but you can't remain quiet or else you will never get those "make-up" calls. Refs don't factor in too much at this age...but their influence on the game does increase with age.....

What load of BS!!! Any decent referee is not swayed by what the coach and especially what the spectators/parents are yelling. Any good referee will listen to the players and may make adjustments to how the game is being called. Referees do not give "make up" calls. That statement is just about as ignorant as yelling at the referee that they are not calling the same number of fouls on both teams.

A lot more goes into actually calling a foul than you may realize. When a referee sees a foul there are several split second decisions that are factored in before the whistle is blown, such as the severity of the foul, if the player can play through the foul, is there a teammate that may get the ball and continue the attack, was the foul a tactical foul, position on the field, is this player being targeted, does a card need to be issued, etc.......

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

What load of BS!!! Any decent referee is not swayed by what the coach and especially what the spectators/parents are yelling. Any good referee will listen to the players and may make adjustments to how the game is being called. Referees do not give "make up" calls. That statement is just about as ignorant as yelling at the referee that they are not calling the same number of fouls on both teams.

Not sure why you strongly disagree when you just said yourself that "any good referee will listen to the players and may make adjustments". In regards to make-up calls, most good refs want to remove themselves as a major factor in the outcome of a game...they want the game to flow and for players to play within the rules. But, for example, if a ref had to make a difficult PK call...and then a similar possible PK foul happened at the other end, the ref will be slightly inclined to also reward the PK to maintain consistency. I've been on both sides of the whistle (as a player and ref). I know the challenges that refs face...but I also know that there is a factor of human nature involved.

 

[Surfref]

The strong disagreement was to your assertion that referees listen to and are influenced by a coach or spectators. I have coached and know part of my job as a coach is to try to influence the referees decisions, so as a referee I do not care what the coach says. As for the spectators, they are just useless background noise. They should be cheering for their kid and not yelling at the referee especially at theses younger ages.

8 and 9 year olds do not go out on the field with an intent to harm another player. Sure there may be a little pushing and grabbing, but it is usually harmless and does not effect the game.

 

[Daniel Miller]

My daughter recently played a game where both teams were shoving each other all game, both sides were complaining to the refs but the refs let them play . My question is does this bother anyone else? Or do we have to teach our DD to do the same and shove back?

The true-true is that most parents at these early ages simply do not know the difference between "rough play" and a "foul." Having seen their daughters' games in AYSO, they believe that every form of using one's body as leverage is illegal. In point of fact, if the ball is in a playable position, just about any contact you make with your body is legal, short of intentionally kicking or elbowing, or obviously extending the arms to push a kid out of the way.

There are almost never any intentional fouls at the GU8 age. Most girls will not even body-up another player unless taught. But, the ones who have been taught to properly use their bodies to shield off, close space and otherwise gain leverage have a distinct competitive advantage. The problem is that most parents, being new to competitive soccer, see this as penal behavior; they don't realize that this is good, fair play.

Parents need to be educated.

 

[baldref]

What load of BS!!! Any decent referee is not swayed by what the coach and especially what the spectators/parents are yelling. Any good referee will listen to the players and may make adjustments to how the game is being called. Referees do not give "make up" calls. That statement is just about as ignorant as yelling at the referee that they are not calling the same number of fouls on both teams.

A lot more goes into actually calling a foul than you may realize. When a referee sees a foul there are several split second decisions that are factored in before the whistle is blown, such as the severity of the foul, if the player can play through the foul, is there a teammate that may get the ball and continue the attack, was the foul a tactical foul, position on the field, is this player being targeted, does a card need to be issued, etc.......

Ignorant is the correct word. As is almost always the case, the worst thing about youth sports are the parents. Sit back, watch the game, and don't show your ignorance by trying to show how much you know. Most of you don't know squat.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

8 and 9 year olds do not go out on the field with an intent to harm another player. Sure there may be a little pushing and grabbing, but it is usually harmless and does not effect the game.

Probably no intent to harm. But definitely intent to commit a foul at this age.

As a ref, shouldn't you call a foul as a foul regardless of what outcome it may have on the game or whether it may cause harm? As a ref, do you go into a U8/U9 game thinking that you won't have to blow your whistle since the fouls are harmless/don't affect the outcome of the game?

 

[baldref]

Probably no intent to harm. But definitely intent to commit a foul at this age.

As a ref, shouldn't you call a foul as a foul regardless of what outcome it may have on the game or whether it may cause harm? As a ref, do you go into a U8/U9 game thinking that you won't have to blow your whistle since the fouls are harmless/don't affect the outcome of the game?

No and No.

 

[Joh Incredible]

Probably no intent to harm. But definitely intent to commit a foul at this age.

As a ref, shouldn't you call a foul as a foul regardless of what outcome it may have on the game or whether it may cause harm? As a ref, do you go into a U8/U9 game thinking that you won't have to blow your whistle since the fouls are harmless/don't affect the outcome of the game?

From the teams that your DD has played what team is the most physical of them?

 

[bruinblue14]

It was a definite transition for me to see the difference in physicality of play going from ayso to club. The refs on this board taught me about the concept of being able to "play through a foul" which is different from say basketball, where most times a foul is a foul and play is stopped regardless of whether or not it affected how the play progressed. I think what's hardest for me to wrap my head around is that in soccer calling fouls is rather subjective in nature and really can vary from ref to ref but ya, I get it, it's part of the game.