jdiaz
SILVER ELITE
Each game is 40 or 45 minutes buddy. Another bright one to the rescue.
SoCal Soccer Attitude Change
- Thread starter Sentient Being
- Start date
jdiaz
SILVER ELITE
For the very bright ones! What you should be asking. Why isn't there a review board doing evaluations on referees. That way they can be corrected on their bad calls in a game. Also make sure the can physically run up and down the field and etc. I have asked many times this question and the answer is no there isn't. In Mexico , South America, and Europe there is a evaluation on referees. There is some good referees and there's bad ones too. And before you say something stupid I have a amputation and bone problems or would be ref. But lot of parents think they know futbol and find it funny. I hear their screaming offsides or he deserves a yellow card or red card. Because their Johnny boy got tackled. This is club soccer, Academy level of play not AYSO.and Johnny is on the bench and not playing then your son needs a new team or private trainer to pick up his game.
jdiaz
SILVER ELITE
I love rookies that come here and open there mouth.
I have been a soccer dad for many years at club and academy levels with kids. i have seen all kinds of reffing (and even cheating in Orange County). My middle kid is DA this season and I am happy to report that the reffing so far has been excellent. Not power-tripping, not whistle-happy, missed calls for both sides (as one would expect) without bias, knowledgeable and not above setting parents straight in a calm manner without being overly authoritarian. So far, so good!
baldref
GOLD
Buddy? Haha
Halves are 40 minutes pal. Haha
Plus checking in teams plus filling out paperwork plus half time plus getting to the field early
But you're the expert, pal.
When determining what the Refs get paid you have to factor in that Referees need to be at the game 30 minutes before kicks off, halftimes of 5 - 10 minutes and about 20 minutes between games when they finish game sheets and check in the next set of teams. So, depending on the age and league the ARs make between $16 - $18 per hour and CRs make between $24 - $30 per hour. You can find Referee fee schedules on most Soccer Referee Association websites - just Google it.
*GOBEARGO*
PREMIER
Baldref is a rookie? He's been on this board as long as I've been here and that's too long. Who are you? As far as you insinuating that refs are overpaid, trying add gas, time at the fields, commuting to education classes & games and ALL those huge $'s (insert sarcasm) are whittled away.
Look at no fan of some of these refs because of the things pointed out on this thread. But one thing I do know, without them, games wouldn't be played.
baldref
GOLD
Someone who does know what they speak of
Sentient Being
SILVER
Jdiaz, you are by far, the brightest star on this forum!!
It's unfortunate that a few of this blogs "critical thinkers" have turned this thread into a discussion about perceived hourly wages, when it was intended to be an introspective look at ourselves regarding sideline behavior and referee abuse. Everybody who reads this has another opportunity this weekend to help stop abusive sideline behavior, wether it be your own or some other parents on your sideline.
The world is what we make it. Our kids are living and playing in the world that we are making for them.
What type of world will your kids be playing their soccer games in this weekend??
It's unfortunate that a few of this blogs "critical thinkers" have turned this thread into a discussion about perceived hourly wages, when it was intended to be an introspective look at ourselves regarding sideline behavior and referee abuse. Everybody who reads this has another opportunity this weekend to help stop abusive sideline behavior, wether it be your own or some other parents on your sideline.
The world is what we make it. Our kids are living and playing in the world that we are making for them.
What type of world will your kids be playing their soccer games in this weekend??
Parents will do well to understand that 1) Almost all referees are trying to do their very best; 2) The referees do not care who wins or loses; 3) Not every call will go your teams way; 4)Referees are human and will make mistakes; 5) if needed, take a few minutes during the week and Google a few soccer rules, this will help you better understand and enjoy the game. Start with the "handball" rule.
I'm a referee and a parent of a player and I discovered years ago how enjoyable and relaxing it is to just watch a game with only words of encouragement "like will done" or "keep it up."
Lastly, there are just barely enough referees to cover all the games on weekends. Parents and coaches behaving poorly toward referees can lead to referees quitting which will lead to more shortages of referees and that likely will lead to the need to increase referee pay to attract more referees.
I'm a referee and a parent of a player and I discovered years ago how enjoyable and relaxing it is to just watch a game with only words of encouragement "like will done" or "keep it up."
Lastly, there are just barely enough referees to cover all the games on weekends. Parents and coaches behaving poorly toward referees can lead to referees quitting which will lead to more shortages of referees and that likely will lead to the need to increase referee pay to attract more referees.
GunninGopher
SILVER ELITE
100% Correct. There are some very ignorant statements being made about what referees earn per game. We are required to arrive no less than 30 minutes prior to the game. The 15 minutes between matches is barely enough to complete the paperwork from a prior game and check in the next game. If there there are additional reports to write or arguments about why a particular card isn't being returned or problems with player check-in that just about blows it. 1 hour 20 minutes per game +30 minutes is the absolute minimum time for an 11 v 11 league game in Presidio/SDDA .
Sentient Being
SILVER
This sounds like a "bully" mentality..
Is this your forum? Is there some sort of blog rule that says "new members" cannot blog until they earn it?
Seriously jdiaz, what are you really going to do...get in a blog fight with a person who has a different opinion than yours. Its another sad example of intimidation, on a thread that is supposed to be about collaboration, compassion and character. Of course this may well be a reflection of your sideline behavior, so hopefully some of my "unicorns and light" optimism will rub off on you..
I wonder which "side" of the sideline you stand on...
Surfref
PREMIER
First of all your math and duration of games is way off. U14 games are 70 minutes long with a 10 minute half time plus another 15-20 minutes before the start of the next game. The time between games is work since we are doing post game paperwork, checking teams in, and doing a quick field check. To make it easier let's round down the overall game time to 90 minutes of referee work for one U14 game. So for 3 games that is 4 1/2 hours of work for the referee crew. Plus, referees are required to be at the field at least 30 minutes early. For a grand total of at least 5 hours of work. Now we are down to $24.80 an hour. And, we have to pay taxes on that at the end of the year at roughly 12% for $2.98 per hour, so we are now at $21.82 an hour. Plus the $3 per game assignment fee we owe the referee association, we are now down to $18.82. Plus there are other expenditures that have to come out of that such as yearly referee fees to US Soccer and referee associations $200, two assessments per year $150, uniforms $280(this year so far), supplies, food and water, and incidentals. We also do not get paid to attend the required (minimum) 8 monthly referee association meetings (90 minutes each) and 3 monthly referee Professional Development meetings (2 1/2 hours each). The grand total ends up being roughly $11 to $15 an hour. Dang, I will be a billionaire in no time.
So before you go trying to convince everyone that referees make a ton of money, you should know what you are talking about and do the math correctly.
charlie murphy
SILVER
I show up to work 30 minutes early. I begin to do the paper work and organize my day so that I will be ready to work when the door opens at 630 am. 15 minute breaks that are mandated by law are barely enough time to complete paperwork from the time prior and prep for the rest of the day after. If there is any type of snafu during the day that doesn't necessarily "blow it" (I manage) but it makes the next few hours very difficult to recover. I do not believe the we are here belittling the work of being a ref , due to a lack of respect or some other motivation. There are a lot harder ways to make a buck. Not a bad way to be involved in a game you enjoy , get some exercise and exercise your alpha.
I do believe that the spectors of a youth soccer game sit too close to the sidelines. I had the guy beside me get a card for a comment ( fairly benign) that he made to me and the ref thought it was directed at him. No other sport really sits that close , basket ball and baseball has "Spector bleachers", not putting the sector in such close proximity to the ref and making their responses muffled by the mass of proximity. The spectors are not spread single file along the edge of the court so there is not isolation of comment from one direction. Thus , making the "ref" comments a little more isolated and personal. You don't see the same problems when the games are at a bigger venue. (At least I haven't)
There are some very good refs that control a game in a way that is not controlling. there are some refs that do not have the physical or mental stamina to keep up with the game , there some refs out there that get paid either way. If you have a good ref if makes it very difficult to accept a ref that is "trying his / her best" or appears to be "calling it in". I would say that I have seen ref prejudice on the pitch toward one team or coach.
Finally, I think that as the kids get bigger. We all have to remember that they are still kids . They think they are adults. They think what they are doing is controlled and part of the game, but they are not quit there yet. they don't know that. That where the ref comes in during the game and we as parents come in in life. We have all been there with work , athletics, or raising a family . I be sometimes being a ref feels a bit like corralling a bunch of cats.
jdiaz
SILVER ELITE
It's cash money you don't report it. Nice try. My nephews are refs too. When the kids are at halftime your on a break. Paperwork takes about 10 minutes for 3 games . 1/2 hr you have to be there ok. But remember ref are getting ready . That mean change your shirts and put your shoes. And it take you 5 minuts to check in a team. And 2 minuts to check the balls.and 1 min. To flip a coin. son that is 14 yrs old is taking the ref class.
Surfref
PREMIER
I do get assessed (evaluated) in two 90 minute higher level youth or adult games a year. I receive unannounced assessments during high school games. Believe it or not, bad referees do get reported by parents, coaches, players and other referees. Assigners also will put more senior referees on games with new referees and problem referees, and ask for a feedback on their performance. Back in August I had one of my LA area assigners ask me to evaluate a referee I was working with that had racked up a good number of complaints. That referee had some serious problems with the way he refereed and the assigner said the referee would only be doing U11 and below games and would receive some mentorship. Many assigners still referee and will schedule themselves with new or problem referees to gauge their ability. Assessors and assigners are at most of the summer tournaments and do watch and evaluate the referee and provide them feedback.
About two weeks ago I discussed with one of my assigners the poor performance of a referee that I worked with and the advice that he should not work games above U12. The problem with most complaints from parents and some coaches is that they complain about judgment calls, which are basically ignored. The complaints that are taken seriously are the ones concerning a misapplication of the LOTG such as awarding a PK for a keeper possessing the ball longer than 6 seconds instead of an indirect free kick (last misapplication of the LOTG). And, most complaints do not include some form of evidence such as a video clip (full game video is preferred over just a clip). Every referee association and CalSouth do have a group or person that looks into complaints and incidents involving referees.
Surfref
PREMIER
Let's start with the taxes. So what happens when the IRS comes calling for an audit. Do you really thing they will believe you when you say, "It's cash money you don't report it." All they will care about is that you didn't report the income and how much of a penalty they are going to charge you. I have been audited and the auditor had money listed that I did not receive a 1099 for but had claimed. The auditor said I claimed about $500 more than what was reported to the IRS which was fine. The auditor took my spreadsheet, told me I was not in trouble and said he would be looking into why the two clubs did not report the income. Cal South, referee associations and clubs are required to report all money paid to referees. These clubs must account for every penny in and out, so the good ones keep track of who (referees) they pay. I know two referees that got substantial penalties for failing to report income from referee work which is just dumb on their part. There are a tone of write-offs a referees can claim to reduce the income level of their referee income. As for your nephews, if they do not make above the minimum income level there is no reason to claim the income. But, if they make above that minimum than they need to claim it.
You forgot a few things or maybe your nephews just forgot to tell you. Sure we are hydrating and recharging the batteries at halftime, but if that is all that is going on than the referees your nephews are working with are not good referees. There should also be a debrief between the referees discussing what went well and what did not go so well, discussion about different players, styles of play and things to look out for in the second half. Prior to the game there should be a 5-10 minute pregame talk (my pregame for the first game are always at least 10 minutes). I tell any youth referees I work with that they need to tell me at halftime and post game 3 things good and bad that we as a referee team did. This helps not only the youth referees but also helps the more senior referees.
You also forgot the pregame field, goals, ball, sidelines inspection. The last thing I want is for a goal to fall over on a player, have the spectators too close and a kid lose a tooth when they hit a chair or bench. It does take more than 2 minutes to do all of this.
Along with everything else before the game, referees also need time to warm up and stretch before the first game which takes at least 10 minutes. I always try to arrive at the field 45-60 minutes early so I have plenty of time to complete all of the pre-game duties at my pace.
Post game paperwork takes between 5-10 minutes per game depending on how much paperwork is required. The biggest delay in paperwork is having to wait for either the manager or coach to come and sign and collect their cards. If there is a RED card than there is extra paperwork that can take another 5-10 minutes.
baldref
GOLD
once again, an uninformed statement of falsehood. the clubs have paysheets and they 1099 referees. if halftime is ten minutes and we're on a "break", does that mean that mean we get that ten minutes back after we arrive home? maybe you could actually say one thing correct that you know as fact. no, probably not......
but the point really is, it doesn't matter if the referees are making $50 an hour. if the leagues and tournaments tell us to not allow abuse from parents or coaches, then our job is to not allow abuse from parents and coaches. do people go to your work and tell you how to make a big mac? tell you the special sauce goes on after the lettuce? of course not....
jdiaz, the referee associations maintain 1099 forms for game assignments that they send to the IRS and to the Referees. Please don't assume that others share your level of integrity when completing their taxes. The 30 minutes before games is spent checking the field, checking teams in, reviewing the rules for the related competition and discussing means of the ARs and the CR working together as a team. This all might sound trivial to spectators but it is valuable preparation time that helps us run the games. Even if you don't think it's work it is still time I'm away from my family.
I wouldn't referee unless I got paid but it certainly isn't the reason I do it. My reasons are many - in no particular order: I like the connection to the game, I like giving back to the game, I like being off the couch (exercising) and being outside, I like to challenge myself to do the best job I can, I pride myself on not agitating and trying to calm down coaches that get too caught in the game and say things they regret later, I like thinking about calls when I'm off the pitch and what I can do better, I like studying the rules online and watching games on TV where I try to make the calls along with the ref on TV. So, to me its enjoyable and good exercise, but it is time away from my family so the fee I get paid is about right but by no means is the reason I'm out there.
I wouldn't referee unless I got paid but it certainly isn't the reason I do it. My reasons are many - in no particular order: I like the connection to the game, I like giving back to the game, I like being off the couch (exercising) and being outside, I like to challenge myself to do the best job I can, I pride myself on not agitating and trying to calm down coaches that get too caught in the game and say things they regret later, I like thinking about calls when I'm off the pitch and what I can do better, I like studying the rules online and watching games on TV where I try to make the calls along with the ref on TV. So, to me its enjoyable and good exercise, but it is time away from my family so the fee I get paid is about right but by no means is the reason I'm out there.