CalSouth National Cup Question (use of ECNL players)

Justice said:
The real sad part about Arsenal EGSL allegedly using 7 ECNL players in President's Cup is that they were a Flight 1 team. They should have played National Cup. According to the rules, they had to petition to play President's because of their poor record in league (won less than 20%) to make the playing field level. I'm guessing their appeal to play did not include a material piece of information that they are going to use 7 ECNL players. It is utter BS to appeal to appeal to play at a lower level than you should and then bring in 7 ECNL players. This is very clearly against the spirit of the drop down rule and should really be reported to Cal South. With 7 ECNL players, Arsenal EGSL could have won National Cup. If you are going to use 7 ECNL players at least play National Cup where Flight 1 teams belong instead of appealing to play lesser competition. Did Arsenal also add in players from Texas for President's Cup or did they think the ECNL players were good enough? Classy moves like this are likely another reason why Arsenal is not getting an Academy Team. Really sad for the teams they destroyed. I hope the coach is very proud of the victory. The Area 1F AYSO open tournament is still taking applications. Maybe he can bring the entire ECNL team for that.
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Coaches and club will do what they need/want to do to win games. At the end of the day, it is up to the parents to allow them to make these decisions; I would have a hard time supporting this and explain to my player why it is good to bring in heavy hitters to help the team win.
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
Coaches and club will do what they need/want to do to win games. At the end of the day, it is up to the parents to allow them to make these decisions; I would have a hard time supporting this and explain to my player why it is good to bring in heavy hitters to help the team win.
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It's easy to explain to your dd. "I am sorry I brought you to this team. Apparently the coach doesn't know how to teach you to play soccer. He only knows how to recruit and yell at you when you don't "send it" to the star striker. I thought he was a good trainer because his team's have winning records." Next year we will go to Legends and they will have a good coach to teach you the game." Follow that up with a Yogurtland visit.
 
So, Arse EGSL has one win...which came in league when they had ECNL players show up. They petition to play down in State Cup because of their record. If Cal South had known that they would roster ECNL players, would they have granted the application to play down? Maybe no rules broken, sleazy at best. They also had ECNL players show up for their first Playoff game...whacked a good flight 2 team 7-0...next playoff game...no ECNL players...no win.
 
They played all but one or two games during league with only 8 or 9 players on the pitch, he pulled girls from this team to play on his 02 EGSL teams. Every game there was a different set of players that would show up to play. It was more like a "pickup game". Why Presidents Cup and not National Cup because there are no rules that mandate clubs/coaches to do the right thing. I feel bad for the teams that worked hard all season to possibly put a stab at winning Presidents Cup and played tier 2 because that is the ability of their team. As forum folks talk I have no skin in this but do feel bad for these tier 2 teams that deserved a chance at winning. National Cup would have been fair game but Presidents. Really? Pick on someone your own size.
 
gobruins said:
So, Arse EGSL has one win...which came in league when they had ECNL players show up. They petition to play down in State Cup because of their record. If Cal South had known that they would roster ECNL players, would they have granted the application to play down? Maybe no rules broken, sleazy at best. They also had ECNL players show up for their first Playoff game...whacked a good flight 2 team 7-0...next playoff game...no ECNL players...no win.
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It's like sitting at the kids table so you can steal their dessert.
 
gobruins said:
So, Arse EGSL has one win...which came in league when they had ECNL players show up. They petition to play down in State Cup because of their record. If Cal South had known that they would roster ECNL players, would they have granted the application to play down? Maybe no rules broken, sleazy at best. They also had ECNL players show up for their first Playoff game...whacked a good flight 2 team 7-0...next playoff game...no ECNL players...no win.
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That sucks that games are at Temecula this weekend. I wonder if ECNL players will go the distance if it was Lancaster. Where do these ECNL parents draw the line?
 
SocalSoccerMom said:
That sucks that games are at Temecula this weekend. I wonder if ECNL players will go the distance if it was Lancaster. Where do these ECNL parents draw the line?
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Who cares? You beat the team that shows up that day. As long as they are the correct age who really cares? Does winnning the lower level tournaments really matter? You have to beat the team in front of you end of story.
 
Remember this is the same coach who borrowed Texas girls when his 'GU14 team played in California Regional League games vs. Legends and Surf last year...like school in the summer...
 
MakeAPlay said:
Who cares? You beat the team that shows up that day. As long as they are the correct age who really cares? Does winnning the lower level tournaments really matter? You have to beat the team in front of you end of story.
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I only care because they are purposefully playing a low level tourney. Yes we as parents know that level means nothing- in all reality the entire circuit means nothing- but if you are going to classify players, and then change the game that's a new low.
I would expect it from trophy chasing clubs who like to use their twitters and facebooks to proclaim their dominance but I do like that now parents are becoming aware of the ruse.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
What if they aren't the correct age? ;)
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Then they shouldn't be allowed to play. My point is people take deductions on their taxes that are within the rules even if they aren't in the spirit of the rules (writing off your motor home as a 2nd home and such). Hell Warren Buffett pays a lower percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary. Maybe the rules need to be changed. It seems that this team had a short roster all season (8-9) and the club is making adjustments to give those 8-9 girls a chance. What about them? Nobody wants to talk about that. All they want to talk about is lower level players that lose in a lower tier tournament. Is this about developing players or is this rec soccer and trophy chasing.

#CLUELESSPARENTSOFULITTLES
 
tugs said:
Remember this is the same coach who borrowed Texas girls when his 'GU14 team played in California Regional League games vs. Legends and Surf last year...like school in the summer...
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But it sounds like the team only has 8-9 players. What do those players deserve?
 
ESPNANALYST said:
I only care because they are purposefully playing a low level tourney. Yes we as parents know that level means nothing- in all reality the entire circuit means nothing- but if you are going to classify players, and then change the game that's a new low.
I would expect it from trophy chasing clubs who like to use their twitters and facebooks to proclaim their dominance but I do like that now parents are becoming aware of the ruse.
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What about the 8-9 regular girls on the team. Don't they deserve a chance to win too with a full 11 players on the field? It's a lower level tournament, who really cares?
 
MakeAPlay said:
What about the 8-9 regular girls on the team. Don't they deserve a chance to win too with a full 11 players on the field? It's a lower level tournament, who really cares?
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This made me laugh out loud. I am smiling by the way because this is funny.
I guess you are right the C team girls have been losing all year so by Cali logic other teams are "microagressing" them and they are entitled to know what it is to win since they have been losers all season.
Yes I agree.
You know how I feel about allthe levels of State Tourneys. I gave up when they started Mayors Cup. I am waiting for City Council cup
 
MAP - I think you are missing what most of the other posters are trying to get to.....INTEGRITY.

So let's assume that the team only has 8-9 players left over from the Fall season. Let's also assume that RB has used 7-8 ECNL players to "supplement" the roster so they have enough players to play each game.

Here's the rub to me.....is RB always playing the 8-9 girls from the Fall season the vast majority of these games? Does RB start all 8-9 of the Fall season players and only use 2-3 ECNL girls at the beginning of the game? Do these 8-9 Fall season players come back into the game in a timely fashion after they have been subbed to rest?

Here's another rub.....this team should have played National Cup if they were planning to use ECNL players to "fill in the gaps". However, they petitioned Cal South to play down at the Presidents Cup. I seriously doubt RB or Arsenal said to Cal South in their petition to play down that they are low on players and they will supplement the roster with ECNL players.

Lastly, as for your assertion that all of the Arsenal Fall season players should have a chance to win. I agree, but do it at the NC level, not at the PC level. By allowing RB to use ECNL players at the PC level versus the NC level, isn't he making it harder for the "proper" PC teams to win a tournament that they are better suited to play in?
 
bababooey said:
MAP - I think you are missing what most of the other posters are trying to get to.....INTEGRITY.

So let's assume that the team only has 8-9 players left over from the Fall season. Let's also assume that RB has used 7-8 ECNL players to "supplement" the roster so they have enough players to play each game.

Here's the rub to me.....is RB always playing the 8-9 girls from the Fall season the vast majority of these games? Does RB start all 8-9 of the Fall season players and only use 2-3 ECNL girls at the beginning of the game? Do these 8-9 Fall season players come back into the game in a timely fashion after they have been subbed to rest?

Here's another rub.....this team should have played National Cup if they were planning to use ECNL players to "fill in the gaps". However, they petitioned Cal South to play down at the Presidents Cup. I seriously doubt RB or Arsenal said to Cal South in their petition to play down that they are low on players and they will supplement the roster with ECNL players.

Lastly, as for your assertion that all of the Arsenal Fall season players should have a chance to win. I agree, but do it at the NC level, not at the PC level. By allowing RB to use ECNL players at the PC level versus the NC level, isn't he making it harder for the "proper" PC teams to win a tournament that they are better suited to play in?
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Your points are valid. If the issue is integrity I get it. The problem is people are making this judgement without knowing what the actual situation is. The one poster that had actual knowledge of the situation stated that they played short handed all season. The coach when petitioning to play down doesn't know what level of fill in player will be available to them. So it happens to be ECNL players, so what. Not all ECNL players are dominant game changers. Some are good role players. We have no idea how they do the substitutions. I'm sure positional need is the primary driver in lineup selection.

I doubt that this was some sort of conspiracy to steal a meaningless trophy. Again, it seems silly that people care about a lower level state tournament. How valuable are trophies that are earned by beating cupcakes anyway? Sounds like AYSO to me, which isn't a dig, AYSO has it's place. I just assume that if a player is in club they are aspiring to something other than rec trophy chasing.
 
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