My perspective is limited by the fact that my son was only involved in it for one year (So Cal and Region IV). The So Cal coach was John Napier who actually fired one of his assistants for trying to recruit players into his club teams. The cost was nowhere near what we were paying for his club team and the coaching and competition level was top-rate. Sometimes at college games, I would see my son talking with players on the opposition -- all teammates from his ODP teams.
WWC 2023
- Thread starter espola
- Start date
In AZ the ODP system is completely corrupt. The Coach mafia ensures the best players well not even the best players ... from certain clubs, are picked so the club can brag about how many of their players made ODP. Last year an 07 girl that was an ECNL bench warmer and missed every single one of the ODP sessions as she was out due to injury (6 months) made the team and wasn't even fit to play. Someone else didn't get the opportunity so she could pad her soccer resume. That is a prime example of what happens at ODP.
So are you throwing out the insane suggestion we continue scouting the best American players beyond the age of 13? Preposterous.
Yep... and the same thing happens with ODP and PDP in Norcal (though that's free and requires a recommendation from the club). Get yourself sent home and, if you play for the right club with the right DOC, you get to come back after a simple phone call. Hell, I saw instances where certain clubs nominated nearly their entire rosters and get away with it.
I agree, again, with what you posted here. I guess my thing is this: you're representing your country and everyone on the planet knows people in the U.S. aren't oppressed. WTF are you kneeling for? What opportunities do you NOT have? Is there ANY country that offers the dream more than we do? If you grew up playing comp soccer, you either had some affluence in your family or you were enough of a badass to get scholarships. I still see it as an attention seeker and, because of that alone, it's embarrassing. Kaepernick started it because he got benched. Rapinoe and Co. tried it because of what... unequal pay? Who has equal pay? You're paid what you're worth and if that's not good enough you can leave or make yourself worth more. Incidentally, the oppressed Megan Rapinoe is purported to earn $7M per year. And let's not pretend you don't get chastised if half your team kneels and you don't. If a Lloyd, Morgan, Heath or Rapinoe look at you cross-eyed in the locker room, are you going to disregard it? "Oh look at me... you might think I'm privileged... but I'm kneeling just to show I support you and how hard you have it. I'm wonderful. I'm one of you." Spare me.
I've always been told that boys can hate each other and, when the whistle blows, you'd never know it. Females, though, aren't nearly as pliable in that regard and I'd be willing to bet there was, to your point, some divisiveness along with "who is he gonna play THIS game."
Well everything is relative and typically based on your personal life experiences. Maybe Rapinoe should spend some time in some objectively oppressive countries. That seems to have made an impact on Brittany Griner.
Yours in futbol
SILVER
The negativity towards the USWNT surprised me because I was never aware you were supposed to sing the national anthem.
So I went back to see what the US MEN'S national teams did during the World Cup. It turns out that in 2022, the USMNT did (albeit somewhat mechanically) mouth the words to the anthem before each game. But that was 2022. What about 2014?
In 2014, you might be shocked to learn that many members on the USMNT stood there in stone cold silence, not even putting their hands over their hearts while the anthem played. Clint Dempsey, in particular, looked like he was ready for the song to end so he could go out and put the hurt on someone. Take a look for yourself, it's crazy given the backlash against the USWNT:
Of course it is/was corrupt. Change needs to happen, but getting distracted by the “go woke go broke” platitudes is not going to get us anywhere. USWNT loss of competitiveness is worsened due to our corrupt pay to play club pathway and our stale style of play. Time to chop heads. Olympics happen in 1 year.
It certainly was ironic that self-anointed patriots were actually rooting against the USA in this World Cup. I think its a bit of an apples to oranges comparison 2014 to 2023. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall that any players on the 2014 USMNT had a previous history of using their position on the team as a platform to virtue signal their social causes. Some on the the USWNT did have that history, so many in the public didn't give them the benefit of the doubt when they were less than enthusiastic during the national anthem. Maybe they were like Clint and just focused on getting on the pitch to kick some ass, but that's tougher to conclude given prior behavior. I personally don't understand some of the vitriol that is directed towards Rapinoe.
So not only is a lack of soccer culture an issue in the US, but apparently it's also because we have people that think singing (or not singing) has anything to do with how our teams perform internationally. Next thing you know we will start to blame chem trails. Looks like we got the big brains on this one.
Agree 100% with chopping heads. But who are you going to replace them with?
Pay to Play is so ingrained in US club and coaching cultures how would you get people to think differently?
Consider that Soccer Coaches aren't Business Ethics scholars. They've learned how business works on the fly by being forced into the meatgrinder at clubs. There's a good chance that many coaches see nothing wrong with Pay to Play. Many have likely benefitted from unethical behaviors.
It's more than not mouthing the words. That was just the final straw to years of this B.S. FYI, Dempsey is a sourpuss douche and always has been.
To my knowledge, the men never knelt, never protested and never said males should be allowed to participate in women's sports. Furthermore, when a Megan Rapinoe commuted 3.5 hours, one way, to practice everyday, and then has the audacity to say... as she's retiring... "sorry, your girl's volleyball isn't important enough to prevent trans males from participating", you just made an enemy out of me. I've raised girls that have played since the age of 4. I know what they sacrifice and how hard they train. So does everyone here. Bye, Cioppino... let that door hit you in the ass. Hard.
The reality is they didn't look strong but could have easily advanced with better finishing.
MR should have never been out there…it was to prevent a lawsuit for discrimination. Her 2019 Accolades, Lawsuits, and Social Justice Virtue Signaling made her “un-droppable”…and when AM comes out saying being and Activist, Entrepreneur, and Mother in that order is another problem. No Lloyd to balance out the BS, Vlatko…softie…not a mystery when you let the activists captain the ship. People coming out saying they felt bullied by MR to kneel…all kinds of BS in that program…less of a youth ability and programming issue and a pure culture issue IMHO. We still have the best players….add Sauerbraun, Macario, Pugh/Swanson, drop MR and take a younger, more qualified player, give Alyssa Thompson a chance against a tired Swedish back-line??? Who knows…un-inspired, weak coaching. He needs to go and we need to hire Randy Waldrum, not some BS DEI hire…
Start with VA—Should have been fired yesterday. Forget woke, our problem is being softies. Whereas our competition is cutthroat. Go out and get the best staff available. Change the style of play to something watchable. Running and gunning is ugly soccer and winning ugly against the Thailands and Vietnams only.
I will continue to follow youth soccer just as my DDs have wrapped up a decade and a half of it from rec to club. But we’re done now. During that time the USWNT was winning, and with superstars like Alex Morgan was a big draw for the kids. Will participation drop off as they start losing? I think it will.
No doubt the parasitical DOCs and coaches love pay to play, because they are a large part of the problem, but maybe if it gets bad enough US Soccer would have to make changes. And if they don’t, I would also enjoy sitting back and watching the whole thing decline and saying told you so.
whatithink
GOLD
So WC1 at 18 and WC2 at 22 and you are done! Makes no sense!!!
FIFA and the Olympics restrict players on men's Olympic soccer teams to age 23 or less, with three exceptions per team.
Orangeteam
SILVER ELITE
That rule does two things. First, it equals the playing field across the countries a bit more. It also ensures the world cup isn't out done.
I also believe in the 70s or 80s the rule was if you had played in a World Cup you could not be in the Olympics.
The earliest Olympic restrictions ruled out all professional players.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't pay-to-play in part a function of the restriction on "selling" players in the US? I'm not defending pay-to-play, but any savvy family with a "deserving" player should be able to get their kid scholarshipped at a prominent club. I see pay-to-play as more of a perceived barrier to entry. Parents just assume they can't afford to have our kid play soccer, so they don't even consider having them play. But still, we have more kids playing soccer than any other country. I believe for girls its by a longshot.
In terms of ethics, are you speaking of coaches that make you take privates from them and then get preferential treatment on the team? I didn't see a lot of that on the boys side, is that pretty common for the girls? It sounds like maybe you are considering pay-to-play, something beyond just regular club dues, in which case, I admittedly don't have any experience with (other than with Dance).
We certainly have issues with culture, coaching and development, I'm just not convinced pay-to-play is a big factor in our failures, but I could be missing the point.