WWC 2023

[Slobodan]

Only half in jest -- since they have met their goal of being paid like the men, they are obligated to perform like the men.

Morgan and Cioppino have an estimated income of $7M a year. How many of the dudes pull in that kind of scratch? Pulisic is good for anywhere between $9-$12M depending on who you read, and the rest, like Gio Reyna, are $2-$3M... about the same as Sophia Smith, Crystal Dunn, Rodman and Julie Ertz.

You almost made a funny, though, Fudd. I'm sure CisKer Du will be here soon to applaud you.

 

[Slobodan]

How with the money and the prestige of this program is Ertz playing CB because they have no one else? That by itself shows how hollow the program is. As soon as Lavelle got the second yellow I knew we were done. The midfield didn't function in the first few games until she came on. I thought Sullivan was a big disappointment she lost the ball more than she won it against much lesser competition. I think Ertz would have made a better captain than Horan but with the unknown of her fitness and rust coming back from having a baby just a year ago i can see why they skipped over her.

Can't disagree with any of that.

 

[LASTMAN14]

Unless you are going to employ an army of scouts across a country as large as the US (think of how many scouts you would need just to cover the best of the best surf cup games), it's awfully hard to identify talent without having politics (such as what goes into identifying all star teams) infect it. The academy system is thus a useful proxy. Those interested in putting soccer before school (as in Europe) self-select so you don't have to sift through the entirety of ECNL (not to mention the other ran letter league). Yes, academy selection can also be subject to politics and corruption but given the constant competition year over year, it's very hard for the marginal players to hide and the goats rise to the top. Finance becomes less of a concern so you don't discriminate by resources and because of the practice schedule, the private training advantage is levelled. The top athletes are there easily pooled for national team scouts to review. Since there's no rel and since the instructors are judged on player development, the distortions that come from a win at all costs system are lessened. Top talent forged by playing top talent.

Agreed that scouting has always been and will an issue in finding talent, but if it does not improve then nothing changes. If its not working (and it is not) do/try something else. I do think using the boys academy as an example it did work but took a great deal of time. Therefore, if we use the current USMNT WC roster we see there were 16 players on there that came from the boys academy. The girls academy did not have the time to really have a an impact on the player pool.

 

[LASTMAN14]

My take on the article, fwiw
The USWNT had too many injuries
Every team did. It's the coach's job to plan for these eventualities and to use the time preparing for tournaments to build and practice for them. Its a coach fail for me on this.

Andonovski picked the wrong roster and lineups
I read somewhere recently that in the run up to the 2019 world cup, everything was planned meticulously, and ready to be implemented 3-4 months prior to the tournament. Even then, changes were enforced, but alternatives stepped up. That clearly didn't happen here. Nigeria just ran England all the way to PKs, based on a plan and player execution - coach fail again for me on this, but players on the USWNT need to step up too.

Poor in-game management from Andonovski
Sure, again no strategy, pathetic really.

The youth pipeline isn't producing the right players
The USWNT age is spread from late teens through early thirties. The youth teams need to be producing 2-3 players a year, on average. They don't need replace the team wholesale, they never have or will. This is a lazy excuse to me. US soccer runs those teams, can identify the talent and should nurture it. I do agree with the comment in the article which, to me, shows that its probably not a player problem, its a scouting/coaching problem.
"You also have to question the role of scouting when it comes to which players break through. Injured forward Swanson, a player known for her pace and athleticism, first caught the attention of the youth national team at 13. Rose Lavelle -- arguably the most creative player the USWNT has other than the injured Macario -- didn't earn her first youth call-up until she was almost 18."

USWNT lacked chemistry and couldn't finish
Sure, they couldn't finish. They have become over reliant on one player and when not available lack alternatives. Slightly better finishing and they would still be in the tournament and be among the favs to win it.

The USWNT was too overconfident
BS to an extent I'm sure, but the ad they made pre-tournament was pretty cringe I thought and definitely came across as super arrogant.

The team was caught between two generations
BS, every team is between generations with a spread of players. It's the coach's job to manage transitions and be ruthless in bringing players in and out.

The global gap has closed
Doh!

A general comment, and I have no knowledge on this, but does the central contracting for players on USWNT have an impact on the coach's ability to be ruthless in adding / dropping players? Say a coach decides to remove 50% of the players and replace them, how does that impact on their contracts / pay?

All in all, I'd say a better coach and the USWNT is right in the mix. They also need to clear out a large number of players and transition in new ones. This should start now with a view to a run at the Olympics (experience mostly), but as a build for the next WC.

VA did fail on really replacing the players that were hurt. In fact in an ESPN article that supports this he mentions, "that his subs would be worse than the players he started." On Press and Heath's podcast they say several times he did not change formations to manage the game. Which we witnessed. This does demonstrate a lack of understanding of what is happening in front of him. Yes, scouting is an issue and what kind of players US Soccer looks at. Despite the challenges of scouting more needs to be done and the philosphy of player selections does as well. Changing the later can improve what kind of players should be brought into the player and possibly have a more immmediate impact. The player pool also needs to be more dynamic in bringing more players and moving players out. US Soccer tends to keep players around that should not be there. The US attack was defensivable because it came from either a cross or individual play. Sweden is a well coached and organized team. They did well to defend an aerial attack from the outside. Agree the ad's prior and during make the USWNT seem arrogant. I hated them. Totally agree an overhaul of the first team roster needs to happen. In fact it should have happened to some extent 2 years ago. Players like Rapinoe were done 4 years ago. And, yes the world has caught up. And nothing has been to show us that US Soccer is aware of it. As for the contracting, I too have questions on how that works. Is that why the roster does not change much? Because there is guaranteed spots and money? If this is the case, we are "FU*7ED". If VA is let go who is the new coach? Laura Harvey?

 

[pewpew]

Honestly I think that is part of the issue. I think the team has factions now. I think there was a faction with Morgan, Ertz, Horan, Lloyd and some others that were old school shut up and play types. They were all about the game. I think there is another faction led by Rapinoe that thinks that is not enough and they need to use their platform to be SJWs and promote causes. Team is split. While there is no kneeling now you will note some take the anthem seriously and others just stand there. Honestly nearly every player on other nations team in the WC sings along except us, even the Europeans. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I think this shows you where their heads were at before the game even started. Don't sing if you don't want to. But you should still have your right hand over your heart. Show some respect for those that fought for your freedom. You live in the best country on the planet. If you don't think it is, find a relative that can link you to play on the National Team for some other country. They were too busy worrying more about being non-patriotic and trying to make a statement vs getting ready to play their butts off for 90+mins.
England vs Nigeria. Even in OT the girl from Nigeria with the long braids that missed her KFTM was running all over the place as if the game had just started. That's playing with heart and grit, knowing if you don't get it done you are going home.
The header that Horan put in the goal vs Netherlands..if I'm not mistaken..there was some trash talk and some pushing before that corner kick. Then she buries it into the back of the net. If they all had that kind of intensity they might still be on the field instead of in front of the tv.

 

[paytoplay]

Good contributions in the last two pages of this topic. Agree with ESPN and also Men in Blazers about the current reality.
The system needs changing, an axe needs to come for US Soccer and coaches. Coach of USWNT is supposed to be the best of the best and represent the top of the girls/women pathway. So, with these obvious failures, US Soccer is demonstrating their incompetence. Change will come too late for a generation of girls, though. Unlucky.
I like the idea proposed of a CA team, with its own unique style of play. The perfect size for a national team and plenty of wealth. No more travel ball, save the money for CA development—imagine the hotel and airline fees that could go to actual training. Team CA could compete against other US regions. It would be a marketplace of ideas (of soccer strategies). Whatever region ultimately rises to the top, they could invite and fold into their team other region’s all stars if needed.

 

[chipmonk]

Good contributions in the last two pages of this topic. Agree with ESPN and also Men in Blazers about the current reality.
The system needs changing, an axe needs to come for US Soccer and coaches. Coach of USWNT is supposed to be the best of the best and represent the top of the girls/women pathway. So, with these obvious failures, US Soccer is demonstrating their incompetence. Change will come too late for a generation of girls, though. Unlucky.
I like the idea proposed of a CA team, with its own unique style of play. The perfect size for a national team and plenty of wealth. No more travel ball, save the money for CA development—imagine the hotel and airline fees that could go to actual training. Team CA could compete against other US regions. It would be a marketplace of ideas (of soccer strategies). Whatever region ultimately rises to the top, they could invite and fold into their team other region’s all stars if needed.

Congratulations, you’ve discovered the ODP program that failed due to politics and incompetence which was mostly caused by the pay to play incentives.

 

[espola]

Congratulations, you’ve discovered the ODP program that failed due to politics and incompetence which was mostly caused by the pay to play incentives.

The ODP program in California was successful until the Academy program started picking off the better players.

 

[LASTMAN14]

The ODP program in California was successful until the Academy program started picking off the better players.

They still choose the wrong players which part of this conversation is about. An example a friends dd was told (by Steve Hoffman) she was the best keeper there but would not choose her because she was not tall enough then. That player now is 5’10 and playing D1 soccer.

 

[watfly]

I think this shows you where their heads were at before the game even started. Don't sing if you don't want to. But you should still have your right hand over your heart. Show some respect for those that fought for your freedom. You live in the best country on the planet. If you don't think it is, find a relative that can link you to play on the National Team for some other country. They were too busy worrying more about being non-patriotic and trying to make a statement vs getting ready to play their butts off for 90+mins.
England vs Nigeria. Even in OT the girl from Nigeria with the long braids that missed her KFTM was running all over the place as if the game had just started. That's playing with heart and grit, knowing if you don't get it done you are going home.
The header that Horan put in the goal vs Netherlands..if I'm not mistaken..there was some trash talk and some pushing before that corner kick. Then she buries it into the back of the net. If they all had that kind of intensity they might still be on the field instead of in front of the tv.

I have a little different perspective, but respect your opinion...I'm a free speech absolutist so I believe the players have every right to kneel, not sing, not put their hand over their heart, etc. In some ways that's more representative of what our country is about than following tradition, or "forced" patriotism. (BTW I'm a huge fan of our anthem, and its amazing when your at an event and thousands of people are singing it).

My issue is how motivated are you when your not proud of or not enthusiastic to represent the country on your jersey? Are you going to give your job 100% if you don't like the company you work for? Certainly some people, regardless of their circumstances, have a enough self pride and dignity to always give it their all, but many do not. In the USWNT case I have to wonder if this had an impact individually, or on team chemistry. My gut instinct tells me some of the women wanted to belt out the SSB, but didn't want to upset the most vocal SJWs on the team. It also smacks a little bit of entitlement when your country has given you this great opportunity (and paid you) to showcase you skills on a world stage. To me its less about patriotism, and more about showing appreciation and respect for the opportunity. Maybe there are more effective ways to support your causes, without being a distraction, then doing it on the field of play.

At the end of they day, they didn't lose because they weren't enthusiastic about the National Anthem, but you do have to wonder if it had some impact on the team.

 

[Ellejustus]

At the end of they day, they didn't lose because they weren't enthusiastic about the National Anthem, but you do have to wonder if it had some impact on the team.

The team is divisive over many political things. It should just be about Playing Futbol and Playing for Pride of Country. Something was off with this team, moo. Chemistry To Win" is what team sport is about. I think we have amazing young talent, and we should be right there in every WC for years to come. We should be playing Spain, but soccer can be very cruel, and it was cruel to our team. Let's support them and wish them the best for 2027. Go USA!!!

 

[espola]

They still choose the wrong players which part of this conversation is about. An example a friends dd was told (by Steve Hoffman) she was the best keeper there but would not choose her because she was not tall enough then. That player now is 5’10 and playing D1 soccer.

My perspective is limited by the fact that my son was only involved in it for one year (So Cal and Region IV). The So Cal coach was John Napier who actually fired one of his assistants for trying to recruit players into his club teams. The cost was nowhere near what we were paying for his club team and the coaching and competition level was top-rate. Sometimes at college games, I would see my son talking with players on the opposition -- all teammates from his ODP teams.

 

[tjinaz]

My perspective is limited by the fact that my son was only involved in it for one year (So Cal and Region IV). The So Cal coach was John Napier who actually fired one of his assistants for trying to recruit players into his club teams. The cost was nowhere near what we were paying for his club team and the coaching and competition level was top-rate. Sometimes at college games, I would see my son talking with players on the opposition -- all teammates from his ODP teams.

In AZ the ODP system is completely corrupt. The Coach mafia ensures the best players well not even the best players ... from certain clubs, are picked so the club can brag about how many of their players made ODP. Last year an 07 girl that was an ECNL bench warmer and missed every single one of the ODP sessions as she was out due to injury (6 months) made the team and wasn't even fit to play. Someone else didn't get the opportunity so she could pad her soccer resume. That is a prime example of what happens at ODP.

 

[espola]

After a quick scan through the games so far, it appears that 0-0 is the most common game score so far (group play and round of 16). Now I have to do an exhaustive list to confirm that.

 

[Slobodan]

They still choose the wrong players which part of this conversation is about. An example a friends dd was told (by Steve Hoffman) she was the best keeper there but would not choose her because she was not tall enough then. That player now is 5’10 and playing D1 soccer.

So are you throwing out the insane suggestion we continue scouting the best American players beyond the age of 13? Preposterous.

 

[Slobodan]

In AZ the ODP system is completely corrupt. The Coach mafia ensures the best players well not even the best players ... from certain clubs, are picked so the club can brag about how many of their players made ODP. Last year an 07 girl that was an ECNL bench warmer and missed every single one of the ODP sessions as she was out due to injury (6 months) made the team and wasn't even fit to play. Someone else didn't get the opportunity so she could pad her soccer resume. That is a prime example of what happens at ODP.

Yep... and the same thing happens with ODP and PDP in Norcal (though that's free and requires a recommendation from the club). Get yourself sent home and, if you play for the right club with the right DOC, you get to come back after a simple phone call. Hell, I saw instances where certain clubs nominated nearly their entire rosters and get away with it.

 

[Slobodan]

I have a little different perspective, but respect your opinion...I'm a free speech absolutist so I believe the players have every right to kneel, not sing, not put their hand over their heart, etc. In some ways that's more representative of what our country is about than following tradition, or "forced" patriotism. (BTW I'm a huge fan of our anthem, and its amazing when your at an event and thousands of people are singing it).

My issue is how motivated are you when your not proud of or not enthusiastic to represent the country on your jersey? Are you going to give your job 100% if you don't like the company you work for? Certainly some people, regardless of their circumstances, have a enough self pride and dignity to always give it their all, but many do not. In the USWNT case I have to wonder if this had an impact individually, or on team chemistry. My gut instinct tells me some of the women wanted to belt out the SSB, but didn't want to upset the most vocal SJWs on the team. It also smacks a little bit of entitlement when your country has given you this great opportunity (and paid you) to showcase you skills on a world stage. To me its less about patriotism, and more about showing appreciation and respect for the opportunity. Maybe there are more effective ways to support your causes, without being a distraction, then doing it on the field of play.

At the end of they day, they didn't lose because they weren't enthusiastic about the National Anthem, but you do have to wonder if it had some impact on the team.

I agree, again, with what you posted here. I guess my thing is this: you're representing your country and everyone on the planet knows people in the U.S. aren't oppressed. WTF are you kneeling for? What opportunities do you NOT have? Is there ANY country that offers the dream more than we do? If you grew up playing comp soccer, you either had some affluence in your family or you were enough of a badass to get scholarships. I still see it as an attention seeker and, because of that alone, it's embarrassing. Kaepernick started it because he got benched. Rapinoe and Co. tried it because of what... unequal pay? Who has equal pay? You're paid what you're worth and if that's not good enough you can leave or make yourself worth more. Incidentally, the oppressed Megan Rapinoe is purported to earn $7M per year. And let's not pretend you don't get chastised if half your team kneels and you don't. If a Lloyd, Morgan, Heath or Rapinoe look at you cross-eyed in the locker room, are you going to disregard it? "Oh look at me... you might think I'm privileged... but I'm kneeling just to show I support you and how hard you have it. I'm wonderful. I'm one of you." Spare me.

I've always been told that boys can hate each other and, when the whistle blows, you'd never know it. Females, though, aren't nearly as pliable in that regard and I'd be willing to bet there was, to your point, some divisiveness along with "who is he gonna play THIS game."

 

[watfly]

I agree, again, with what you posted here. I guess my thing is this: you're representing your country and everyone on the planet knows people in the U.S. aren't oppressed. WTF are you kneeling for? What opportunities do you NOT have? Is there ANY country that offers the dream more than we do? If you grew up playing comp soccer, you either had some affluence in your family or you were enough of a badass to get scholarships. I still see it as an attention seeker and, because of that alone, it's embarrassing. Kaepernick started it because he got benched. Rapinoe and Co. tried it because of what... unequal pay? Who has equal pay? You're paid what you're worth and if that's not good enough you can leave or make yourself worth more. Incidentally, the oppressed Megan Rapinoe is purported to earn $7M per year. And let's not pretend you don't get chastised if half your team kneels and you don't. If a Lloyd, Morgan, Heath or Rapinoe look at you cross-eyed in the locker room, are you going to disregard it? "Oh look at me... you might think I'm privileged... but I'm kneeling just to show I support you and how hard you have it. I'm wonderful. I'm one of you." Spare me.

I've always been told that boys can hate each other and, when the whistle blows, you'd never know it. Females, though, aren't nearly as pliable in that regard and I'd be willing to bet there was, to your point, some divisiveness along with "who is he gonna play THIS game."

Well everything is relative and typically based on your personal life experiences. Maybe Rapinoe should spend some time in some objectively oppressive countries. That seems to have made an impact on Brittany Griner.

 

[Yours in futbol]

Well everything is relative and typically based on your personal life experiences. Maybe Rapinoe should spend some time in some objectively oppressive countries. That seems to have made an impact on Brittany Griner.

The negativity towards the USWNT surprised me because I was never aware you were supposed to sing the national anthem.

So I went back to see what the US MEN'S national teams did during the World Cup. It turns out that in 2022, the USMNT did (albeit somewhat mechanically) mouth the words to the anthem before each game. But that was 2022. What about 2014?

In 2014, you might be shocked to learn that many members on the USMNT stood there in stone cold silence, not even putting their hands over their hearts while the anthem played. Clint Dempsey, in particular, looked like he was ready for the song to end so he could go out and put the hurt on someone. Take a look for yourself, it's crazy given the backlash against the USWNT:

 

[paytoplay]

Congratulations, you’ve discovered the ODP program that failed due to politics and incompetence which was mostly caused by the pay to play incentives.

Of course it is/was corrupt. Change needs to happen, but getting distracted by the “go woke go broke” platitudes is not going to get us anywhere. USWNT loss of competitiveness is worsened due to our corrupt pay to play club pathway and our stale style of play. Time to chop heads. Olympics happen in 1 year.