WWC 2023

[Carlsbad7]

The Carlsbad QB has committed to Alabama. A number of receivers have transferred in to play with him including "allegedly" a total stud WR from Florida.

Soccer players make great football players.

I know of a soccer player playing for Navy.

And yes the soccer nonsense + politics prepares crossover players very well for American Football.

 

[watfly]

And yes the soccer nonsense + politics prepares crossover players very well for American Football.

I was thinking more along the lines of footwork and body control.

 

[Orangeteam]

Do you happen to know whatever came of the Double Pass investigation? We're there any published results, or did it just die with the death of DA? I believe some "periodization" training methods might of been implemented by some clubs based on recommendations by Double Pass?

I don't. My last baseline was the study was supposed to be for a few years and it ran into the covid shut down. What happened after that I haven't heard. I don't have too much to do with USSF other than social pleasantries and the occasional discussion about a player.
My friends in Germany have good things to say, especially at the Federation level.
This is the most recent US info on line i could find. It has some vague info about their phase 2

Double Pass

www.doublepass.com

 

[Veritas]

I think if you are in that bracket for females it [college] is the way to go. Females peak far later than men. Both physically and skills wise they are going to be much better mid 20s than late teens. Any player that is NT level that is going to be ruined by a few years of college is not really at that level.

Guys - totally different and they are giving up a lot of money if they delay.

Women peaking in their 20's physically and skills wise? Where did you hear that load of sh.. I completely disagree. Girls finish developing much faster than boys. If they are 14/15 and did not get the skills and touch needed to play at the highest level they are done... They will never develop the skills and proper touch after that. After puberty most girls go south if they did not develop before...

 

[Veritas]

I'm still fuzzy on the math as to how some of you imply that we don't (and won't) have good enough players on our 23 women roster to compete internationally, so we need to scour the poor neighborhoods to change that, when we have more women playing soccer in the US by a longshot over any other country and its the most popular girl's sport in our country. Sure we may not get every potentially great soccer player, but we can't find 23 others when we have by far the largest pool to choose from? If player identification is a problem, how does having a larger pool improve that? Is it because you believe we could have 23 Messi's instead of just 23 DeBruyne's. I guess its possible that we miss out on that once in the lifetime talent that completely changes the entire team, although even Messi didn't have that impact on Argentina....except arguably once.

I'm all for improving opportunities for underprivileged talent, but I'm not convinced that that would change the overall quality and results of our national team.

I don't think its a matter of not having the talent but the type of player the US is scouting. Players that are mostly physical and fast but lack technique and tactical IQ. All great individual talents that were never taught to play as a team becasue they carried their youth teams on their back based on individual talent and physical traits. The girls youth soccer system's fault of building big strong physical teams that rely on 1 or 2 players to carry them in the attack.

 

[sockma]

Women peaking in their 20's physically and skills wise? Where did you hear that lead of... I completely disagree. Girls finish developing much faster than boys. If they are 14/15 and did not get the skills and touch needed to play at the highest level they are done... They will never develop the skills and proper touch after that. After puberty most girls go south if they did not develop before...

I'll disagree with this one. Girls that put the time into their first touch after puberty can still develop that. But girls that look good before puberty might not look good after puberty. Sadly, as the girls go through puberty, parents get very angry with coaches and blame them for benching their players or moving them down to a lower team even though their players have great first touches and instincts plus always a starter before. Once Puberty hit, all these technical players/ or fast quick players struggle because girls either catch up to them OR they slow down themselves and their bodies won't let them do what they did before. It's tough.

Some girls hit the puberty lottery and develop into agile, quick and fast players that only need to put work into their first touch. If you're this lucky, then just put an hour a day into your touches and over 2-3 years, you'll definitely catch up by 16-17.

 

[Ellejustus]

I don't think its a matter of not having the talent but the type of player the US is scouting. Players that are mostly physical and fast but lack technique and tactical IQ. All great individual talents that were never taught to play as a team becasue they carried their youth teams on their back based on individual talent and physical traits. The girls youth soccer system's fault of building big strong physical teams that rely on 1 or 2 players to carry them in the attack.

Great stuff Veritas. We have some of the best players in the world and we will always have top players. We will always have a great team that can win it all. However, our style is still fast & physical and not enough pass & go and sharing the rock. Futbol should be about trust and passing the ball back and forth and look for those opportunities to put one in the back of the net. I saw a lot of direct and over the tops more than basking and weaving from the back to the front for a score. I can, based on my eyeballs, see many countries playing a pretty brand of futbol and it's fun to watch.

 

[Veritas]

I'll disagree with this one. Girls that put the time into their first touch after puberty can still develop that. But girls that look good before puberty might not look good after puberty. Sadly, as the girls go through puberty, parents get very angry with coaches and blame them for benching their players or moving them down to a lower team even though their players have great first touches and instincts plus always a starter before. Once Puberty hit, all these technical players/ or fast quick players struggle because girls either catch up to them OR they slow down themselves and their bodies won't let them do what they did before. It's tough.

Some girls hit the puberty lottery and develop into agile, quick and fast players that only need to put work into their first touch. If you're this lucky, then just put an hour a day into your touches and over 2-3 years, you'll definitely catch up by 16-17.

There is always room to improve first touch but technical ability needs to be done pre puberty if you are girl that is to become a masterful technician in the futture. But I agree with you that puberty can turn a technical player into a slow sluggish player. The point I'm trying to make is technical ability will be very hard to develop after puberty, same goes for men. Not saying you won't improve but having the technical base pre puberty will definitiely help and take you to the next level especially if you are one of the lucky girls part of the puberty lottery. Boys tend to be more fortunate in that aspect and you see a lot more lottery winners.

 

[LASTMAN14]

The main benefit of the academies is the amount of practice time and touches on the ball players get. School becomes secondary which you can’t say with run of the mill mls next teams certain ones like strikers and img excepted

I agree the main issue is cultural. As I mentioned our u20 boys academy teams are hanging in and beating the European academies. The European teams though don’t go to pieces because they lost. I remember watching a u12 game where Manchester United was beaten by tfa: tfa played very directly and did counteroffensives and breakaways off the Manchester mistakes. The Manchester team made mistakes because they were told to develop the possession game even when they were losing

you can only learn if you are allowed to make mistakes. But because soccer is such a tight game where a victory can be the difference of 1 goal allowing players to make mistakes means losing. And losing has serious consequences especially if the system has pro/rel at stake: it’s real money on the table as all the letter league drama shows: it can make the difference in the club being included in mls next or being locked out. it’s why coaches joystick: players have to be told what to do or they’ll make a mistake and lose. If winning isn’t what’s important then there is absolutely zero excuse for example of not having your goalkeepers take their goalkicks when they are young: they need to learn to do it.

europe isn’t all everyone gets an ayso trophy either. The academies are ruthless to players and absolutely ruthlessly cut them leaving them with few prospects except going to colleges in the us to play soccer because they are off the academic track. The difference is they evaluate the development (technical, tactical, physical, mental) of the individual player instead of the wins/losses of the teams. The staff is evaluated not by the record of the teams they coach but the number of players they develop for transfer and sale.

A friend of mine coached at the Ajax academy. Winning was never the point at that level. Development was key. Ajax has a curriculum and the focus of the games was on what concept(s) a team was currently working on. If the technical director did not see the team demonstarate that area they would never question the coach why they lost or won, but rather why that concept was not employed. If it was used then there was a decision was it mastered or did they need to continue to focus on it.

 

[LASTMAN14]

I generally agree with the critique. The most deadon point raises in the article is the lack of an ecnl level team (no one here has been so far able to name one) for the girls in the downtown-downey-bell triangle. That alone is a major hole. The boys have two largely Latino based orgs in laufa and tfa on the boys side, but have a similar void in the val (lasc is a suburban club that at least until now has drawn from Pasadena-Granada hills; there’s la surf with a bigger footprint but same area; and real SoCal/lafc ecnl). For the reasons I stated, financial cultural and racial, there’s not a lot of cross over between Latino and suburban teams with some exceptions.

for the reasons I previously stated I also think placing the hopes on our Latino community is poor. There’s not a lot of cultural crossover (lafc notwithstanding…there were as many Monterrey supporters last night than lafc in our hometown) and soccer iq in the community is poor compared to Europe. I was a big Latinos will build it fan. I’ve revised my opinion recently…was wrong about it.

Here is an example of a young lady that one could say overcame the challenges that Nayella faced. Her parents are immigrants (Mexico) who do not have a great deal of means. She is from Pico Rivera. Her early years were spent playing in a boys league in Whittier. When the DA came to be her parents brought her try out and immediately was recognized as a talent. She then left to ECNL. She is now part of the Mexican National team U20's and is attending/playing at UCLA.

 

[watfly]

There is always room to improve first touch but technical ability needs to be done pre puberty if you are girl that is to become a masterful technician in the futture. But I agree with you that puberty can turn a technical player into a slow sluggish player. The point I'm trying to make is technical ability will be very hard to develop after puberty, same goes for men. Not saying you won't improve but having the technical base pre puberty will definitiely help and take you to the next level especially if you are one of the lucky girls part of the puberty lottery. Boys tend to be more fortunate in that aspect and you see a lot more lottery winners.

Boys and girls might be able to develop a decent touch post-puberty, but I think its nearly impossible to develop that innate touch, particularly first touch, that is going to elevate your speed of play and decision making to a world class level. IMHO the most important physical skill you need to fully develop your soccer IQ is your first touch. If you can't calmly and cleanly receive the ball its going to delay and distract from your decision making. From what little I saw of the USWNT at the World Cup, it seemed they struggled to settle the ball, which just slowed the game down and to let their opponents recover.

 

[Avanti]

Boys and girls might be able to develop a decent touch post-puberty, but I think its nearly impossible to develop that innate touch, particularly first touch, that is going to elevate your speed of play and decision making to a world class level. IMHO the most important physical skill you need to fully develop your soccer IQ is your first touch. If you can't calmly and cleanly receive the ball its going to delay and distract from your decision making. From what little I saw of the USWNT at the World Cup, it seemed they struggled to settle the ball, which just slowed the game down and to let their opponents recover.

First touch is one thing that can be developed and improved with training. Like most basic skills in soccer, one needs to start early. Things like speed or coordination are innate, but I guess they can be somewhat improved with training. Things that require several skills, one of them innate, are extremely rare to see in players (think of superconduccion or natural dribbling). The main problem of the USWNT in this world cup, besides the obvious catching up of perennial soccer powers, was the low soccer IQ of many of the players (which actually were the best players available for the most part). I'm sure that the ugly system of VA was conditioned by the players available to him. Hopefully the soccer played in the NWSL improves with better coaching, because this league is the main source of players for the USWNT. The NWSL is almost unwatchable, simply by paying attention to these games and knowing that most players play regularly like this, one could predict that the USWNT was doomed in this world cup. Moving forward the USWNT will continue contending in international competitions because the IQ problem will be addressed, but the years of total international domination are gone and the USWNT will be just 1 of 4-5 excellent teams in any given tournament.

 

[pewpew]

Spain 2-1 over Sweden. Australia vs England about to start.

 

[whatithink]

So England through to the final.

Maybe US soccer should take a long hard look at the England coach. This is her fourth tournament with a record so far of

• 2017 Euros, coached Netherlands, winners
• 2019 World Cup, coached Netherlands, second
• 2022 Euros, coached England, winners
• 2023 World Cup, coaching England, finalist

There may be a trend there ...

 

[whatithink]

First touch is one thing that can be developed and improved with training. Like most basic skills in soccer, one needs to start early. Things like speed or coordination are innate, but I guess they can be somewhat improved with training. Things that require several skills, one of them innate, are extremely rare to see in players (think of superconduccion or natural dribbling). The main problem of the USWNT in this world cup, besides the obvious catching up of perennial soccer powers, was the low soccer IQ of many of the players (which actually were the best players available for the most part). I'm sure that the ugly system of VA was conditioned by the players available to him. Hopefully the soccer played in the NWSL improves with better coaching, because this league is the main source of players for the USWNT. The NWSL is almost unwatchable, simply by paying attention to these games and knowing that most players play regularly like this, one could predict that the USWNT was doomed in this world cup. Moving forward the USWNT will continue contending in international competitions because the IQ problem will be addressed, but the years of total international domination are gone and the USWNT will be just 1 of 4-5 excellent teams in any given tournament.

The best USWNT players should go to Europe both for the pay and the play - if they are good enough. It is now mirroring the men's game from a platform and opportunity perspective.

The difference in the age profile and experience (i.e. academy development not youth soccer / college) is also starting to tell, e.g. the scorer for Spain yesterday is 23 - she passed the 100 appearances for Real Madrid last season; the bench impact player for Spain is 19.

 

[paytoplay]

First touch is one thing that can be developed and improved with training. Like most basic skills in soccer, one needs to start early. Things like speed or coordination are innate, but I guess they can be somewhat improved with training. Things that require several skills, one of them innate, are extremely rare to see in players (think of superconduccion or natural dribbling). The main problem of the USWNT in this world cup, besides the obvious catching up of perennial soccer powers, was the low soccer IQ of many of the players (which actually were the best players available for the most part). I'm sure that the ugly system of VA was conditioned by the players available to him. Hopefully the soccer played in the NWSL improves with better coaching, because this league is the main source of players for the USWNT. The NWSL is almost unwatchable, simply by paying attention to these games and knowing that most players play regularly like this, one could predict that the USWNT was doomed in this world cup. Moving forward the USWNT will continue contending in international competitions because the IQ problem will be addressed, but the years of total international domination are gone and the USWNT will be just 1 of 4-5 excellent teams in any given tournament.

I always think post-game to myself “who won?” and not about the score at all. Do the parent$, club and coach ever make any changes. Nope. We’re all trapped in this “development” system that does not incentivize long term development. It’s all about winning customers to the club. So, the WWC players available naturally were the product of a system that is actually very primitive (like the primitive discussion early on in the thread distracted by the word “woke”). The biggest country in power and money, but we don’t play to realize our full potential.

 

[Ellejustus]

The best USWNT players should go to Europe both for the pay and the play - if they are good enough. It is now mirroring the men's game from a platform and opportunity perspective.

The difference in the age profile and experience (i.e. academy development not youth soccer / college) is also starting to tell, e.g. the scorer for Spain yesterday is 23 - she passed the 100 appearances for Real Madrid last season; the bench impact player for Spain is 19.

100% and even those girls who aren't USWNT players should take a looksy at Europe to play futbol as option after High School or College. The good news for females around the world is that the doors of Pro Futbol are opening up for those who want to get paid to play the great game. We in the States are programmed to pay for play and kiss the right asses to get selected. It's a mess!

 

[Orangeteam]

After DiCicco's U20 won the 2008 U20 WC he submitted a report to the USSF.
He wrote .5 page summary titled "What are the Positives of USA Girls’ and Women’s Soccer:"
He wrote 3.5 page summary titled "What are the areas of USA Girls’ and Women’s Soccer that need to improve:"
The message in the 1990s, 2000's, and today all seem the same. Technique and IQ.
I added a few clips from his report. This may be a final or almost final report.

There is a scouting comment he made I attached too.
Outside of the actual report, he was critical of the fact that the scouting network seemed scout where they lived, didn't have the right "eye" for the future of the game, comments of favoritism of clubs, etc. DOCs today say the same thing, which is expected.

 

[watfly]

After DiCicco's U20 won the 2008 U20 WC he submitted a report to the USSF.
He wrote .5 page summary titled "What are the Positives of USA Girls’ and Women’s Soccer:"
He wrote 3.5 page summary titled "What are the areas of USA Girls’ and Women’s Soccer that need to improve:"
The message in the 1990s, 2000's, and today all seem the same. Technique and IQ.
I added a few clips from his report. This may be a final or almost final report.

There is a scouting comment he made I attached too.
Outside of the actual report, he was critical of the fact that the scouting network seemed scout where they lived, didn't have the right "eye" for the future of the game, comments of favoritism of clubs, etc. DOCs today say the same thing, which is expected.

View attachment 17824 View attachment 17819View attachment 17820View attachment 17821View attachment 17822

Great stuff. All of those comments could have been written yesterday. The last slide could have been written specifically about this years team. Their receiving of the ball was atrocious. The one that stands out in my mind was shortly after Rapinoe came in during ET in the Sweden game, she received a ball in stride, in the box, with space and completely misplayed the ball and it bounced off her body and then out of bounds. As a team, I saw way too many receptions with plenty of space and time that looked like they would lead to good assist or scoring opportunities, but instead were completely mishandled.

 

[LASTMAN14]

The best USWNT players should go to Europe both for the pay and the play - if they are good enough. It is now mirroring the men's game from a platform and opportunity perspective.

The difference in the age profile and experience (i.e. academy development not youth soccer / college) is also starting to tell, e.g. the scorer for Spain yesterday is 23 - she passed the 100 appearances for Real Madrid last season; the bench impact player for Spain is 19.

There is a player from my DD’s ECNL club and age group that passed on Stanford and is on Barcelona’s B team.