Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

GoldenGate said:
You accuse youth soccer of being corrupt but can't point to a single instance of corruption by a single person because you're not good at names? I see.

I have defended the amount of travel in ECNL many times whiner. The amount of travel in ECNL is absolutely the perfect amount of travel. How do I know that? Because ECNL is wildly successful, and because there are many, many other options available to everyone at every price point if they don't want to pay what it costs. Because showcases provide kids with opportunities to be seen and recruited by colleges all over the country. Because traveling is fun up until it is too much. Because families who can't afford a little travel don't have any business engaging in an indulgent activity they can't afford. You may as well be whining that it is unfair that every household in America doesn't have a free Steinway in the parlor, that they don't even have a parlor.

I love how people like you keep claiming soccer should just be more inclusive. Sure, Ferrari dealerships should also be more inclusive and just pass them out like candy to poor people too, right? In reality, youth soccer exists at every conceivable price point, but playing elite girls soccer is an expensive indulgence because elite professional training at anything costs a lot of money, whether it soccer, piano, equestrian or whatever. What you really mean is that you you don't want to pay for what things cost. But gosh, if only the US were like that soccer utopia of Spain, where high level training costs 20,000 euros at TOVO and 17,000 at Malaga.
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The comparison to Ferrari dealerships is just perfection
 
These conversations are happening in basketball at the high levels

is Europe doing a better job of developing their basketball players?

Now this may just be the Doncic bias going on, but they are going on

Elite level basketball has shoe money involved, so a little different

but nothing wrong with asking the questions

Even Parlow has said that the sport could be more accessible in this country
 
GoldenGate said:
No, I just don't think the vast majority of kids should waste their time on the "cognitive" "complexities" of the "beautiful game" as you'd like. The alphas who really care are doing just fine the way things are. I know that because the USWNT beats just about everyone all the time. I also know it because the two soccer utopias that all of you love so much (Spain and France) have never won a knockout stage game in a major tournament and the other has never made a final - in the entire history of planet earth. I honestly think you and your friends gravitate to losers like this because that is all you know.

But maybe you are right. Maybe Catarina Macario, and Trinity Rodman, and Sophia Smith, would all be better soccer players if only I weren't so complacent. It's just so pathetic that no one in the US ever developed them at all, am I right? It is despicable what those shit clubs Surf, and Blues, and Real CO did to those girls, right? Maybe the USWNT might have won a WC or four if only American players had spent more time learning the "cognitive" "complexities" of the "beautiful game"? If only we had deemphasized winning and instead spent it watching online TOVO videos.
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Most of Catarina Macario's skill development was in Brazil. I was at her first game in the US.
 
outside! said:
Most of Catarina Macario's skill development was in Brazil. I was at her first game in the US.
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I watched her live in Del mar and so did my dd. She has one of, if not, the best work ethic out there. She does not stop and plays hard on every play at practice and in the games. I think she helped Lyon with top trophy in Spain. She is amazing player and hope she heals fast from her ACL. I played hoops Outside. I was NOT a very good practice player. I hated practice to be honest and gave it 75%. When the lights came on and we had real game, watch out because I was going to be all over you. I took charges, I was a pest to the big guys and played crazy but in control. It was adrenalin that was only made in the games. My coach would give me crap because I didn't bring that energy to practice. Well, his practices were shit and he yelled at us all the time and even tried to get us all to go to his church to be saved.
 
outside! said:
Most of Catarina Macario's skill development was in Brazil. I was at her first game in the US.
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I see, so you're admitting that it really doesn't matter what youth clubs teach because, like Macario, girls learn what they need to know about the "cognitive" "complexities" of the "beautiful game" by 11 years old? That she learned everything she needed to know by the time she was 12 years old when she moved here? Or are you admitting that pure athleticism like she possesses is far more important than "technical skill"? Or are you saying the US should be like Brazil because that country does so well at developing female soccer players?

What is your point? My point is that Surf, ECNL and Stanford helped convert an incredibly athletic 12 year old girl into someone who may end up becoming the best female soccer player who ever lived, and that it is ridiculous to discount that just because she was really good when she was 11. My point is that she also has the most valuable asset she could possibly have if her injury bug continues (a Stanford degree), which by itself makes the American youth "system" better than wtf goes on down in Brazil. Or Spain. Or anywhere else.
 
MacDre said:
@GoldenGate & @Happened again, I think the both of you have misconstrued @NorCalDad position. Y’all have got Dude chasing non sequiturs and neither of you have addressed his complaint.

Dude is complaining about all the “bully ball” and the lack of basic fundamentals. This is not about athleticism or lack there of. This isn’t about access to college. Dude is talking about a lack of basic fundamentals. (emphasis added).

My kid defines bully ball as: players being allowed to attack the player instead of the ball, shoulder barging, and pushing with both hands.
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oh come on...don't cherry pick. The idea that "everyone" needs to learn better skills or the rest of the world will pass by is silly.

I agree with the lack of focus from many clubs...it's not changing..ever. I would recommnd to stop whining and go find a club that fits your requirement, they are out there. The idea that the rest of the world will "pass us by" is silly.....Anyone watch the England Sweden game?
 
Happened again said:
oh come on...don't cherry pick. The idea that "everyone" needs to learn better skills or the rest of the world will pass by is silly.

I agree with the lack of focus from many clubs...it's not changing..ever. I would recommnd to stop whining and go find a club that fits your requirement, they are out there. The idea that the rest of the world will "pass us by" is silly.....Anyone watch the England Sweden game?
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Nope, but I watched the UEFA u19 final between ESP and NOR.....
 
Had a great conversation with our "princess" the other day. It went something like:

princess: Why is girls soccer so much different than boys soccer?

me: What do you mean?

princess: They just seem to have so much more control of the ball and they're not running into each all over the place.

me: Well princess, @GoldenGate thinks you just need to realize the girls game is just different from the boys game and you should just accept that.

princess: That doesn't make any sense.

me: @GoldenGate thinks it would be better if you spent time with a boyfriend and riding horses.

princess: But I really love soccer and want to get better at it.

me: Sorry princess, @GoldenGate thinks you're basically wasting your time with those aspirations. And, as we all know, @GoldenGate knows all.
 
NorCalDad said:
Nope, but I watched the UEFA u19 final between ESP and NOR.....
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It is no wonder that you have no idea how soccer is won at the highest levels. Still bitter and confused that your circus juggling friends had so much possession but still had their asses handed to them by England and Germany?
 
GoldenGate said:
It is no wonder that you have no idea how soccer is won at the highest levels. Still bitter and confused that your circus juggling friends had so much possession but still had their asses handed to them by England and Germany?
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You clearly do not understand Spanish soccer based on your "circus juggling" comment. Of course you probably also don't know Cruyff's view on juggling either.
 
Happened again said:
oh come on...don't cherry pick. The idea that "everyone" needs to learn better skills or the rest of the world will pass by is silly.

I agree with the lack of focus from many clubs...it's not changing..ever. I would recommnd to stop whining and go find a club that fits your requirement, they are out there. The idea that the rest of the world will "pass us by" is silly.....Anyone watch the England Sweden game?
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Definitely good clubs and coaches out there. I actually think the majority of the problem lies with the players and referees. I think the refs could call games tighter and essentially eliminate bully ball. In terms of players, I think overall there’s a lack of interest/passion for soccer. The girls on my kids team could care less about soccer outside of practice so, even if more clubs were better, I don’t think the culture/passion is there yet for the players to take advantage of improved conditions if clubs were to offer it.
 
NorCalDad said:
Had a great conversation with our "princess" the other day. It went something like:

princess: Why is girls soccer so much different than boys soccer?

me: What do you mean?

princess: They just seem to have so much more control of the ball and they're not running into each all over the place.

me: Well princess, @GoldenGate thinks you just need to realize the girls game is just different from the boys game and you should just accept that.

princess: That doesn't make any sense.

me: @GoldenGate thinks it would be better if you spent time with a boyfriend and riding horses.

princess: But I really love soccer and want to get better at it.

me: Sorry princess, @GoldenGate thinks you're basically wasting your time with those aspirations. And, as we all know, @GoldenGate knows all.
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No one is stopping your daughter from becoming the best soccer player she can be. Let me ask you this, though. In 10 years, where will your princess be in life compared to those girls whose first touches the two of you mock? Where will she be compared to those who, instead of spending/wasting hours on end perfecting their first touches, instead spent it on something else? Like improving their piano or guitar skills, spending it in a robotics club, working gainful employment, volunteering, or even reading literature? Shoot, where will she be compared to the pretty ones doing duckface and peddling crap on the 'gram and Tiktok? Will they all be disgusted sitting around the TV just so angry that the USWNT is losing to a bunch of Spanish circus jugglers because Trinity Rodman and Catarina Macario failed to develop to their full potential because their youth coaches failed to spend $5,000 learning the "TOVO system"?

The truth is your daughter will never play for the national team. She'll never make more money playing soccer than should could have made working FT at Starbucks. I also get the impression she'll never even leverage her soccer into a meaningfully better college opportunity. In fact, if you're like most of the others here who share your sensibilities, I'm guessing she ends up chasing the soccer dream at a college that is worse academically and hinders her professional development more than the college she would have chosen if she wasn't worried about disappointing her dad by hanging up the cleats. In the end, odds are very high that she will end up bitter that she wasted so much time watching TOVO modules when she could have been creating fond memories.

Why does it matter so much to you that other people's kids and their parents do not share your belief that soccer is just so important that thousands of little girls "need" to be better at it? Why does that make you so angry that they believe it is a kiddie game played by children and treat it accordingly? Why is it so important to you that other people's daughters become better soccer players? How would your life, or anyone's, improve if more little girls give up music lessons and robotics to focus on first touches? In the end, the irony of all of this is that people like you never end up with the soccer player you expected and were hoping for.
 
NorCalDad said:
You clearly do not understand Spanish soccer based on your "circus juggling" comment. Of course you probably also don't know Cruyff's view on juggling either.
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I am sure your daughter has spent many hours studying the great Cruyff. Good for her. I can't imagine a more important way to for a teenage girl to spend her time. Worshipping the total futbol god has worked so well for Spain's circus jugglers.
 
GoldenGate said:
No one is stopping your daughter from becoming the best soccer player she can be. Let me ask you this, though. In 10 years, where will your princess be in life compared to those girls whose first touches the two of you mock? Where will she be compared to those who, instead of spending/wasting hours on end perfecting their first touches, instead spent it on something else? Like improving their piano or guitar skills, spending it in a robotics club, working gainful employment, volunteering, or even reading literature? Shoot, where will she be compared to the pretty ones doing duckface and peddling crap on the 'gram and Tiktok? Will they all be disgusted sitting around the TV just so angry that the USWNT is losing to a bunch of Spanish circus jugglers because Trinity Rodman and Catarina Macario failed to develop to their full potential because their youth coaches failed to spend $5,000 learning the "TOVO system"?

The truth is your daughter will never play for the national team. She'll never make more money playing soccer than should could have made working FT at Starbucks. I also get the impression she'll never even leverage her soccer into a meaningfully better college opportunity. In fact, if you're like most of the others here who share your sensibilities, I'm guessing she ends up chasing the soccer dream at a college that is worse academically and hinders her professional development more than the college she would have chosen if she wasn't worried about disappointing her dad by hanging up the cleats. In the end, odds are very high that she will end up bitter that she wasted so much time watching TOVO modules when she could have been creating fond memories.

Why does it matter so much to you that other people's kids and their parents do not share your belief that soccer is just so important that thousands of little girls "need" to be better at it? Why does that make you so angry that they believe it is a kiddie game played by children and treat it accordingly? Why is it so important to you that other people's daughters become better soccer players? How would your life, or anyone's, improve if more little girls give up music lessons and robotics to focus on first touches? In the end, the irony of all of this is that people like you never end up with the soccer player you expected and were hoping for.
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Well @GoldenGate this is probably going to blow your mind, but you don't know my kids and what they're into (which is much more than just soccer). You seem to be under the assumption that anyone who posts on a soccer forum that they have nothing else going on in life. You really like putting people in boxes, regardless of the limited amount of data you have to do so. I get it, it allows you to admonish people which probably creates some kind of endorphin rush and makes you feel good inside. But, let's be honest, you have no interest in having a conversation nor are you adding any real value to this conversation. Every single one of your manifestos could be summarized with "US girls soccer is good, no need to change anything". Like literally all of your other words are wasted bits on the Internet -- like plastic in the great pacific garbage patch.

For what it's worth, I have zero motivation for any of my kids to play professional, on the national team, or in college. I mean how could I? I'm not them. We let our kids lead with their interests. We help them however we can. I'm a firm believer sport (especially team based sports) provide valuable life building blocks that they will carry on through their lives. One thing I'm not fond of is someone, you, saying the girls game is different than the boys game....just because. I get your reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but if you have been paying attention, you would have seen that I'm actually advocating for a less intense, less anxiety prone, environment in soccer for girls. Hearing parents, who have no idea what they're talking about, on the sidelines yelling at their "alphas" to "go get her" is what I'm advocating against. Perhaps you're one of those parents. You certainly don't seem to care about concussion rates in girls soccer.

There's no anger over on this keyboard. Just discussing the state of girls soccer in the US and how it could potentially be different if parents/players demanded higher quality play over wins. Eventually I will be proven right at an international level.
 
GoldenGate said:
I am sure your daughter has spent many hours studying the great Cruyff. Good for her. I can't imagine a more important way to for a teenage girl to spend her time. Worshipping the total futbol god has worked so well for Spain's circus jugglers.
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You should finish your googling on Cruyff...you didn't get to the juggling part.
 
MacDre said:
Definitely good clubs and coaches out there. I actually think the majority of the problem lies with the players and referees. I think the refs could call games tighter and essentially eliminate bully ball. In terms of players, I think overall there’s a lack of interest/passion for soccer. The girls on my kids team could care less about soccer outside of practice so, even if more clubs were better, I don’t think the culture/passion is there yet for the players to take advantage of improved conditions if clubs were to offer it.
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This is a big country with many players, refs, clubs, coaches. There is one out there for ya. Why you gotta blame the 15 year old kid or the middle aged person trying to ref - makeing extra $$ or getting some excercise? He/she is the barrier to greatness? come on man.

All of a sudden everyone has a kid that is going to play on the national team? People/parents are crazy. Parents are what's wrong with youth sports, not the refs.
 
Happened again said:
This is a big country with many players, refs, clubs, coaches. There is one out there for ya. Why you gotta blame the 15 year old kid or the middle aged person trying to ref - makeing extra $$ or getting some excercise? He/she is the barrier to greatness? come on man.

All of a sudden everyone has a kid that is going to play on the national team? People/parents are crazy. Parents are what's wrong with youth sports, not the refs.
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Why does wanting higher quality coaching and less boot/bully ball mean everyone has a kid that is going to play on the national team? That makes zero sense to me. We all pay a premium for club soccer, why not get our money's worth? It would also be great if we could save some money on medical bills.
 
NorCalDad said:
Well @GoldenGate this is probably going to blow your mind, but you don't know my kids and what they're into (which is much more than just soccer). You seem to be under the assumption that anyone who posts on a soccer forum that they have nothing else going on in life. You really like putting people in boxes, regardless of the limited amount of data you have to do so. I get it, it allows you to admonish people which probably creates some kind of endorphin rush and makes you feel good inside. But, let's be honest, you have no interest in having a conversation nor are you adding any real value to this conversation. Every single one of your manifestos could be summarized with "US girls soccer is good, no need to change anything". Like literally all of your other words are wasted bits on the Internet -- like plastic in the great pacific garbage patch.

For what it's worth, I have zero motivation for any of my kids to play professional, on the national team, or in college. I mean how could I? I'm not them. We let our kids lead with their interests. We help them however we can. I'm a firm believer sport (especially team based sports) provide valuable life building blocks that they will carry on through their lives. One thing I'm not fond of is someone, you, saying the girls game is different than the boys game....just because. I get your reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but if you have been paying attention, you would have seen that I'm actually advocating for a less intense, less anxiety prone, environment in soccer for girls. Hearing parents, who have no idea what they're talking about, on the sidelines yelling at their "alphas" to "go get her" is what I'm advocating against. Perhaps you're one of those parents. You certainly don't seem to care about concussion rates in girls soccer.

There's no anger over on this keyboard. Just discussing the state of girls soccer in the US and how it could potentially be different if parents/players demanded higher quality play over wins. Eventually I will be proven right at an international level.
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I see. So your entire point is that you think little girls should just be better at soccer and it would be better for America if every parent in America and their little girls just committed much more of their time to developing excellent first touches on the ball instead of on things that are, uh, more important to them? Spending more time on their first touches provides far more "valuable life building blacks that will carry on through their lives" than any of the things that they need to sacrifice to become little Cruyffs?

I like this game and would like to play. I think little girls should just continue committing to soccer to the extent they want to and spend their time on what is important to them, not some clown who loses his mind with the low quality of play he sees watching U13 games on youtube wants.
 
GoldenGate said:
I see, so you're admitting that it really doesn't matter what youth clubs teach because, like Macario, girls learn what they need to know about the "cognitive" "complexities" of the "beautiful game" by 11 years old? That she learned everything she needed to know by the time she was 12 years old when she moved here? Or are you admitting that pure athleticism like she possesses is far more important than "technical skill"? Or are you saying the US should be like Brazil because that country does so well at developing female soccer players?

What is your point? My point is that Surf, ECNL and Stanford helped convert an incredibly athletic 12 year old girl into someone who may end up becoming the best female soccer player who ever lived, and that it is ridiculous to discount that just because she was really good when she was 11. My point is that she also has the most valuable asset she could possibly have if her injury bug continues (a Stanford degree), which by itself makes the American youth "system" better than wtf goes on down in Brazil. Or Spain. Or anywhere else.
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Catarina's skills were for the most part developed when she played against boys in Brazil. Of course her tactical awareness and soccer IQ continued to develop as she grew and Surf and Stanford provided a good environment for that, but she was already much more than just a very athletic girl when she moved here. Everyone that saw that first game she played against Legends knew they had just seen a special player.

I never said development for girls was better in Brazil, they treat their women's national team like crap. Catarina had to move away and was fortunate that her parents were able to afford living in two countries. The US currently has the best environment for developing female soccer players but it could be better if it didn't price out many young players.
 
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