Why keep arguing, NO FALL SOCCER!

JumboJack said:
That's one way to phrase it. One could also say the "At the beginning of this the experts were wrong but now they are right..... unless they are wrong again".
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I dont see why we should expect our disease forecast to be any better than the weather forecast.

If anything, it should be worse. We have weather every day. We have a new disease once a decade.
 
JumboJack said:
That's one way to phrase it. One could also say the "At the beginning of this the experts were wrong but now they are right..... unless they are wrong again".
Click to expand...
Or, you listened to the wrong sources and as a result of that you don't believe the virus is real because you haven't been personally affected so it's ok for your kid to go play no matter what the consequences.
 
happy9 said:
No one is triggered, I responded and then asked a follow on question - it's called discussion, debate, conversation, etc.

Sounds like you are triggered? When did I tell you that your relatives shouldn't go outside? I'm pretty sure I said it's their choice to not go outside. That's what's cool about our constitution. I have an immune suppressed family member as well (extended family, not in our household). He takes careful and prudent measures to ensure he is not at risk. It doesn't mean they barricade the doors and block out all sunlight, even though blocking out all sunlight may help with the air conditioning thing.

Do you recommend we close Arizona for the summer? I mean, it's hot here, really hot. I'm hoping once I kick the last kid out of the house, that I will be able to lock the doors for the summer and head north. Until then, my AC will be on during the summer. At least I don't have to heat the pool, that helps cut cost.

While we are at it, I guess we could also close portions of the IE and the desert cities in CA. I would go out on a limb and say the IE is over half of the population of Arizona and about equal to the population of the greater phoenix metro area.

Do a bit of research and you will see that youth sports, especially soccer have yet to create a second wave anywhere. Hard hit states like NJ have been having large tournaments all summer long.

But triggered, no. Involved in and enjoying entertaining soccer forums while working from home - YES. Plenty of good info on here, as well as insight. If this forum triggers you - you have a choice...
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LOL. It must be tough, can't read between the lines of what to do, what is right for you or everyone else, so just choose yourself. And while you're at it, blame something else, but don't blame yourself or how you are part of the problem. Do some research. The virus spreads in close proximity. No one is doing studies on youth soccer. No one needs to. Your kid infects someone elses kid, and they infect some else, that person dies. It doesn't matter to you, you don't need to worry, you work from home, everything in your life is good. Crank up the AC, a not very green planet awaits you.
 
thelonggame said:
You and your I don't care, and I will not pay taxes either. Why should I?
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For what it's worth, red ass, I work, I pay my taxes and I wear my mask. So did many others in Arizona when I was there last week. And just like we see in California, there were many others that didn't and still run their air conditioners.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
That's understandable based on what the experts thought about what was needed for "herd immunity" to kick in. There's a lot being learned about this virus and how viruses spread in general.
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When will we be at herd immunity.

www.independent.co.uk

What if herd immunity to coronavirus is closer than scientists thought?

In New York, London and Mumbai, there might already be substantial immunity to coronavirus
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Also looks like China has been using a vaccine.

www.cnn.com

China says it's been vaccinating doctors and border workers since July

China has been using an experimental coronavirus vaccine on people who work in "high risk" professions since July, including front line medical professionals and border inspectors, a senior official from the national health commission revealed over the weekend.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
The HB Dad said:
excellent post. unfortunately we are losing out to the fear porn from the media.
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Oh my favorite response, blame the media, and no surprise at all from behind the Orange curtain. Didn't I see you in downtown HB a month or so ago puking in anger at anyone telling you what to do? If it weren't for the media, there would be no virus at all. Are you calling for a full media blackout or just MSNDC or CNN? Is Fox news ok?
 
JumboJack said:
Fingers crossed!
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Yes, wouldn't you be happy for me if more people died? People who quote facts are always the ones who are responsible. It's all my fault. If I just shut up and didn't say that maybe 200k people will die of this virus by mid September then it would just go away.
 
JumboJack said:
That's one way to phrase it. One could also say the "At the beginning of this the experts were wrong but now they are right..... unless they are wrong again".
Click to expand...
Ha! I'd say it is more about the "conventional wisdom" around herd immunity is being turned on its head a bit. The NY Times article a few days ago about it was a real eye-opener. Grace posted one in the good news thread from a doctor in HI summarizing a few things about the virus including understanding why some "activities" produce mildly symptomatic cases and others produce severe cases.

At first, it makes perfect sense to rely on the conventional wisdom of the experts. However, there is so much that isn't understood about viruses in general and this virus specifically that we can't afford to assume that we already know it all and simply attempt to make the data fit what we already believe. Kudos to Grace for seeing this early. In fairness, experts require significant evidence before they change "conventional wisdom". The risk is high if they get it wrong. The worst that happens to us when we speculate is that we get shamed or called names by anonymous folks on the board ;).
 
thelonggame said:
Oh my favorite response, blame the media, and no surprise at all from behind the Orange curtain. Didn't I see you in downtown HB a month or so ago puking in anger at anyone telling you what to do? If it weren't for the media, there would be no virus at all. Are you calling for a full media blackout or just MSNDC or CNN? Is Fox news ok?
Click to expand...

The orange curtain? While you're busy shaking, Chicken Little, why don't you ask yourself why Obama bought a $12M mansion on an island, where the highest point of the city is 310' above sea level, if global warming isn't being built up for an agenda? Nobody is asking for a media blackout on the virus or anything else. We just long for the days when news was reported instead of opinions.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Ha! I'd say it is more about the "conventional wisdom" around herd immunity is being turned on its head a bit. The NY Times article a few days ago about it was a real eye-opener. Grace posted one in the good news thread from a doctor in HI summarizing a few things about the virus including understanding why some "activities" produce mildly symptomatic cases and others produce severe cases.

At first, it makes perfect sense to rely on the conventional wisdom of the experts. However, there is so much that isn't understood about viruses in general and this virus specifically that we can't afford to assume that we already know it all and simply attempt to make the data fit what we already believe. Kudos to Grace for seeing this early. In fairness, experts require significant evidence before they change "conventional wisdom". The risk is high if they get it wrong. The worst that happens to us when we speculate is that we get shamed or called names by anonymous folks on the board ;).
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My point was at first many experts were saying "No worse than the Flu" "Masks are useless" "Go on a cruise" ect:...
 
socalkdg said:
When will we be at herd immunity.

www.independent.co.uk

What if herd immunity to coronavirus is closer than scientists thought?

In New York, London and Mumbai, there might already be substantial immunity to coronavirus
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Also looks like China has been using a vaccine.

www.cnn.com

China says it's been vaccinating doctors and border workers since July

China has been using an experimental coronavirus vaccine on people who work in "high risk" professions since July, including front line medical professionals and border inspectors, a senior official from the national health commission revealed over the weekend.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Yes! I posted that NY Times article under its own thread last week. It was a great read.

I believe it is this vaccine below (from NYT). Note the text in orange and red. Damn.

The Chinese company CanSino Biologics developed a vaccine based on an adenovirus called Ad5, in partnership with the Institute of Biology at the country’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences. In May, they published promising results from a Phase 1 safety trial, and in July they reported that their Phase 2 trials demonstrated the vaccine produced a strong immune response. In an unprecedented move, the Chinese military approved the vaccine on June 25 for a year as a “specially needed drug.” CanSino would not say whether vaccination would be mandatory or optional for soldiers. On August 9, the Saudi health ministry announced that CanSino Biologics would run a Phase 3 trial in Saudi Arabia. The company is in negotiations with other countries for more trials.
 
thelonggame said:
LOL. It must be tough, can't read between the lines of what to do, what is right for you or everyone else, so just choose yourself. And while you're at it, blame something else, but don't blame yourself or how you are part of the problem. Do some research. The virus spreads in close proximity. No one is doing studies on youth soccer. No one needs to. Your kid infects someone elses kid, and they infect some else, that person dies. It doesn't matter to you, you don't need to worry, you work from home, everything in your life is good. Crank up the AC, a not very green planet awaits you.
Click to expand...

I give up. I can't make sense of our discussion any more. It must be me, not you. I don't feel like I have time to rehash all of the proven/unproven/proven/unproven public health guidance that has come out since around FEB or so. Again with the blame? Who am I supposed to blame and how have I contributed to the problem? It's not like we are running around as CV19 insurgents, ambushing people by jumping out from behind a palm tree, breathing on people. That wouldn't go over very well. Are we practicing and playing soccer? Absolutely. Are we following the rules as it pertains to soccer, yep. Is there risk in playing soccer - of course there is - what is the risk? We don't know. I've stated it on a couple of occasions now, there is enough precedence established by other states that I am comfortable allowing my kids to play (this is a soccer forum, thus the soccer reference). If you don't feel comfortable with that risk, don't send your child to practice. If you are uncomfortable coming to AZ, don't come.

And you are right, I mostly now work from home, but still have to visit clients at least 3 times a week. As far as I can tell, and just from my observation, most people are in compliance with measures that have been directed. Business for sure are in compliance, they have to be. They are happy to be up and running, providing jobs for their employees and contributing to the economy that provides them their livelihoods. Masks are everywhere (it's hot here and no mask rebellion has occurred). I was in CA a few weeks ago - most people were wearing masks. I'm not willing to fall on my sword over the mask discussion, there are bigger issues beyond the masks.
 
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