Why do we tolerate 3+ games in 2-3 days?

oh canada

oh canada

GOLD
Texting with a few friends who went to AZ last weekend (kids are Juniors in HS) and I was struck how all three of them (don't know one another) felt the current tournament structure needs to be changed. More than two games in a weekend is not healthy (short term and long term) and does not facilitate good quality play either. One parent's kid played 5 games, 5!, in 3 days. Said the early games weren't that competitive and the Final was more kickball than he had seen for his kid's team in years. "Not getting any good video clips from that game," was his quote.

Got me to thinking...why do we allow the clubs to put our sons and daughters through it? Although never a fan of the DA, I did appreciate their rule of no more than 2 games in 3 days. Smart and player-thoughtful. Eight year old kids may be able to run forever on a little field, but once we get to 11 v 11, the tournaments should no longer be about winning trophies after 5 games and simply be about providing good competitive games for players to test their development, get looks from scouts, and enjoying the team experience.

Some will say that the tournaments are providing more games to justify travel and their fees. But that assumes parents wouldn't travel and pay the same for two competitive games on good fields and in a attractive destination (eg, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, etc.). I, for one, would certainly be happy to pay my 1/16 share of $1500 and spend two nights in Vegas for two high quality games. Would you? If so, then let your club know. Maybe we can get an enlightened, forward-thinking club to give it a try?
 
Being formerly in DA, I really hated the idea of 4 days to play 3 games..... I'm not wealthy so prospect of the extra night in a hotel and time off work and school was very hard as a parent of younger player..... I know several parents on the team a year older than than my 2006 who agreed....

but yes 5 games in 3 days in crazy..... and don't forget some tournaments like West Coast are 5 games in 2 days!!

1 game per day for a maximum of 3 consecutive days.... 2 games in 2 days even better..... is the best balance of health/$/logistics imho..... especially as they get older
 
Vegas Cup’s schedule always struck me as particularly outrageous (and dangerous). The more we know about ACL risks, the more all parents should be against the 4 to 5 game tournaments.

I think this is driven by money (more games to justify the cost - either you cram them into too few days or add disruption/lodging of rest days), a “need” for us to have “champions” (hard to do that w/only 2 games) and this idea that “kids are young, they can handle it”. My guess: The odds that a specific kid is injured may not be significantly increased but the odds that SOME kids on Day 3 will suffer a big injury do increase. And the chance of injury mid-week at practice or during the following weekend‘s games . . . There should be real tracking of this.
 
oh canada said:
Texting with a few friends who went to AZ last weekend (kids are Juniors in HS) and I was struck how all three of them (don't know one another) felt the current tournament structure needs to be changed. More than two games in a weekend is not healthy (short term and long term) and does not facilitate good quality play either. One parent's kid played 5 games, 5!, in 3 days. Said the early games weren't that competitive and the Final was more kickball than he had seen for his kid's team in years. "Not getting any good video clips from that game," was his quote.

Got me to thinking...why do we allow the clubs to put our sons and daughters through it? Although never a fan of the DA, I did appreciate their rule of no more than 2 games in 3 days. Smart and player-thoughtful. Eight year old kids may be able to run forever on a little field, but once we get to 11 v 11, the tournaments should no longer be about winning trophies after 5 games and simply be about providing good competitive games for players to test their development, get looks from scouts, and enjoying the team experience.

Some will say that the tournaments are providing more games to justify travel and their fees. But that assumes parents wouldn't travel and pay the same for two competitive games on good fields and in a attractive destination (eg, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, etc.). I, for one, would certainly be happy to pay my 1/16 share of $1500 and spend two nights in Vegas for two high quality games. Would you? If so, then let your club know. Maybe we can get an enlightened, forward-thinking club to give it a try?
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The only way to address it is by shortening the games to 20 minute halves in tournaments??. But then parents would feel that they are not getting their money's worth and would complain of not enough playing time. Hard issue to tackle, at the High School level is even worse, one/two games on the weekend, followed by a possible third game during the week, plus 21/2 hour training sessions all other days. Forget finesse, its all about which warrior can grind it out the longest, is not soccer is more of a fitness test contest. Regular league is not any better, some kids will play 2 to 3 games on a weekend and parents love it, little Johnny is getting more playing time and playing on the A, B, and C team, crazy. Parents are then puzzled when the injuries start to set in. Funny thing in Europe, the youth elite academies are only allowed to play one game on the weekend, the rest is training. Crazy model in this country.
 
Tournaments need to make $$$ and they won't attract enough participates if there are not "winners" that get $4 medals and $50 team trophies.

The obsession with having to crown champions in every flight in ever ages means teams need to play 9am on Monday and then 1215 same day after they already played 3 games the previous 2-3 days.

One game at day with no more than 2 consecutive days + a rest day is the best model. If you need a 4th game that could be after the rest day. 5-6 games over 4 days is too much. That would mean no semis which is fine, less drama get it done in group play but there are too teams in many tournaments and people won't be happy.

We sacrifice our kids heath to win basically and sometimes style of play. Having seen the effects of 5-6 game marathons where my Player(s) need a week or more to recoup hardly seems work it.

Nice to see them get on podiums don't get me wrong but I don't like the model or they way some teams go after players physically to no end, attempting to injury them so they have a better chance at advancing. If you can't win with skill, there is no honor in winning at all costs which is normally just a short term gambit they ends up not being great for the players in the long run.
 
lafalafa said:
Tournaments need to make $$$ and they won't attract enough participates if there are not "winners" that get $4 medals and $50 team trophies.

The obsession with having to crown champions in every flight in ever ages means teams need to play 9am on Monday and then 1215 same day after they already played 3 games the previous 2-3 days.

One game at day with no more than 2 consecutive days + a rest day is the best model. If you need a 4th game that could be after the rest day. 5-6 games over 4 days is too much. That would mean no semis which is fine, less drama get it done in group play but there are too teams in many tournaments and people won't be happy.

We sacrifice our kids heath to win basically and sometimes style of play. Having seen the effects of 5-6 game marathons where my Player(s) need a week or more to recoup hardly seems work it.

Nice to see them get on podiums don't get me wrong but I don't like the model or they way some teams go after players physically to no end, attempting to injury them so they have a better chance at advancing. If you can't win with skill, there is no honor in winning at all costs which is normally just a short term gambit they ends up not being great for the players in the long run.
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I realize that's the general consensus--that teams/families won't sign up for a 2-game weekend "tournament"--but I think that may simply be wrong, especially for the 11v11 games. Time for a club to disrupt the status quo and give it a try! Charge the same entry fee so the revenue will be the same. Give us parents a chance to choose healthier and better soccer and we will reward you!
 
timbuck said:
And probably a late night game followed by an early morning game at least 1 of those days.
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I know I have seen 3 games in a 24-hr period (7p, 9a, 4p, for example - not sure if it was exactly that (it's been some years) but close)
 
oh canada said:
I realize that's the general consensus--that teams/families won't sign up for a 2-game weekend "tournament"--but I think that may simply be wrong, especially for the 11v11 games. Time for a club to disrupt the status quo and give it a try! Charge the same entry fee so the revenue will be the same. Give us parents a chance to choose healthier and better soccer and we will reward you!
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I think that is a good comment and you may be right. But "showcases" don't have the same allure and the lengthy travel for 2 days means that fewer (not none) teams from outside the area of the tourney will show.

Don't get me wrong - some of the most fun watching my kids play has been at tournaments when the families are hanging out, much beer is consumed at night and the kids just have a blast. Whether it was a BooFest in costume when they were little or going to my kid's first Surf Cup (when it was a bit smaller so "Best of the Best" seemed to have greater meaning) or to an ECNL showcase with scouts lining both sidelines. I miss not having that w/my younger kids but as much as I like it, I am not sure how far we'd travel for a 2 game event and I'm not sure the 3 to 4 (or more) game weekend is worth the health risk at their age (early in the prime injury years)
 
dk_b said:
I know I have seen 3 games in a 24-hr period (7p, 9a, 4p, for example - not sure if it was exactly that (it's been some years) but close)
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Happened to me a few times with my oldest at a previous club years ago. Played an important part in why we left.

While the DA showcase rules did reach deeper into your pockets, they were well intentioned. My youngest has never played more than one game a day. The only reason to play 2 games in a day is to "crown an champion", which appeals to many.
 
Dubs said:
Agree. Any "tournament format" once kids reach 13/14 is insane.
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You just need to scale it back one way or another.

A tournament of 4 short games could be fun. So could a 3 day event with 2 regular length games.

The stupid part is trying to squeeze 360-450 minutes of play into 2 or 3 days.
 
oh canada said:
I realize that's the general consensus--that teams/families won't sign up for a 2-game weekend "tournament"--but I think that may simply be wrong, especially for the 11v11 games. Time for a club to disrupt the status quo and give it a try! Charge the same entry fee so the revenue will be the same. Give us parents a chance to choose healthier and better soccer and we will reward you!
Click to expand...
I'd love to see a tournament last a week. Have games every other weekday. Finals on Sunday.
Probably doesnt make sense for teams that need to travel, but for teams that live within an hour - Evening games in the summer!!
 
futboldad1 said:
Being formerly in DA, I really hated the idea of 4 days to play 3 games..... I'm not wealthy so prospect of the extra night in a hotel and time off work and school was very hard as a parent of younger player..... I know several parents on the team a year older than than my 2006 who agreed....

but yes 5 games in 3 days in crazy..... and don't forget some tournaments like West Coast are 5 games in 2 days!!

1 game per day for a maximum of 3 consecutive days.... 2 games in 2 days even better..... is the best balance of health/$/logistics imho..... especially as they get older
Click to expand...

These tournaments do not play full length games so be a little more realistic about this. Kids like to play. If you have a solid sized roster it is fine to play this many games.
 
timbuck said:
I'd love to see a tournament last a week. Have games every other weekday. Finals on Sunday.
Probably doesnt make sense for teams that need to travel, but for teams that live within an hour - Evening games in the summer!!
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Or similar to State Cup format, just stretch it out to two weekends if all of your teams are within driving distance and you feel you need to crown a champion. Group games on weekend one and semi's, final on weekend two.

By the time the kids get to high school age, I honestly think they really care less about another medal in their shoebox. It's more about the game itself and the socializing after.
 
GT45 said:
These tournaments do not play full length games so be a little more realistic about this. Kids like to play. If you have a solid sized roster it is fine to play this many games.
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You must have younger kids only because once they reach 13yrs, they are playing 40-minute halves.
 
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