Why do we tolerate 3+ games in 2-3 days?

[oh canada]

You may need to work on your reading comprehension, or because english is not my first language, it may be my fault but I never stated my position on the issue. In fact, I didn't state, or mean to imply anyone's position on those tournaments. What I take exception to is your argument that 80% of parents would rather pay the same for less. I don't agree and I think you just made that number up so you could start your own thread. The other comment I made was that you can choose for yourself if you don't want your daughter to play that many minutes and in fact, it would benefit your kid's teammates if you lived out your convictions. In other words, grow some balls and make your one decisions. Again, if another player gets minutes that they would not otherwise gotten because you had the guts to stand by your beliefs then everybody wins. You feel better about yourself, your kid is healthier and you just helped out your fellow man by getting them some playing minutes. Isn't that a win, win, win? Only problem is if you only complain about it here and don't go out and do it, nobody wins anything.

You assume much and know little. Don't assume I haven't already done this with my kids, nor have them sit out a tournament completely.

Your posts drip with machismo--"grow balls", "had guts", "don't have the courage", etc.--English is my second language as well but I know that testosterone is never helpful with logical decision-making.

 

[watfly]

I agree with this. The best coaches are not necessarily at ECNL/GA/MLS clubs but good players will usually migrate to these teams because they feel they need the platform to get to the next level. When my kid left an ECNL club to go to a non-letter club at the time (became DA, now GA) because I liked the coach, we were told to stay because of ECNL not because the coaching was better.

I can tell you for my sons 7 years of club soccer there has been little correlation between quality of coaching and winning. I'm jealous of those whose experience has been different.

 

[lafalafa]

I can tell you for my sons 7 years of club soccer there has been little correlation between quality of coaching and winning. I'm jealous of those whose experience has been different.

Generalization but with my 2 players over 14 yrs time frame my experience has been:

High quality skilled players + Quality coach(s) make a habit of winning a very high % of the time. Will draw occasionally or lose but for tournaments normally advance out of bracket play and are playing the post season playoffs.

Quality players + average coach still can do well but likely not win league, advance to regionals or make it out of tournaments brackets for anything beyond a small local.

With a below average coach's can be hard but not impossible to overcome with the right set of high quality players.

In any of the cases beyond 1st example without developing players to be higher skilled won't get to the two levels above.

 

[notintheface]

I can tell you for my sons 7 years of club soccer there has been little correlation between quality of coaching and winning. I'm jealous of those whose experience has been different.

Don't be jealous-- most teams are similar to your son's. Remember in a tournament flight with two brackets of 8 teams, 75% of the teams end their tournament with a loss, with only the winner and the 3rd place team ending with a win. In State Cup with an age group of 64 teams, 98% of the teams end State Cup with a loss and usually only 25% of the teams have a winning record over the whole tournament.

In league play, your team is 99% more likely to have a .500 record than it is to win all its games. In a league bracket where you play every team exactly twice, you are more likely to lose more games than you win. (This sounds crazy but statistically you are more likely to lose or draw a game to a lower ranked team and lose both games to higher ranked teams)

This game has never been about being completely and utterly dominant from game to game -- yes there are some teams that are like that but they are rare, and no team wins every game that it plays during a year. This is the number one thing that I wish every parent knew-- if you feel like you are paying club fees in order for your child to win games, you are in this for the very wrong reason.

Your son's experience is normal-- please make sure your son knows this. One individual coach is not going to magically turn a flight 2 team into a giant-killing flight 1 team. It is perfectly fine for them to be on that midtable flight 2 team, because they are still better than 99% of their peers.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

Your son's experience is normal-- please make sure your son knows this. One individual coach is not going to magically turn a flight 2 team into a giant-killing flight 1 team. It is perfectly fine for them to be on that midtable flight 2 team, because they are still better than 99% of their peers.

Valid point. It is rare to see a homegrown team go from winning at all levels without recruiting new elite players. The top teams eventually are made up of great athletes with strong technical skills. My nephew's team went from signature at age 7 to a decent flight 1 team. They had to recruit many elite players to win flight 1. There is a reason why the top clubs in the country keep winning and part of it is coaching but alot has to do that they draw the best players in the region.

 

[46n2]

Isn't it safe to say that if you have a strong team , great players also flock to that team to make it even better? Whether or not the coach really is the draw. I know that with my oldest , they were asked to come to the team, top team forsure, it was a great move and they couldn't be happier. The level of play is very competitive amongst the players, while they become friends at the same time.
Theres a point right where the kid starts to say, my old team doesn't cut it , and this new team may be what Im looking for.
Dont always blame a coach for having a good run with a bunch of talented kid.

 

[46n2]

Ive seen many a parent ruin it for their kids too by the way. How many of you have that friend that has 6 different jersey in six different years with a decent player. These parents want instant gratification and let a bad season or a little playing time on a new team instantly let them have a bad taste in their mouth. Players take time to find their pecking order on a new team, their may already be 2 great wingers, so your little johnny/sally has to fight for the spot or adhere to a new position.
One of my friends, they have ruined it for their kids by all of the movement they done over the year, and they always have a excuse and its never their fault......
Lastly there is such things as a Top Tier , Academy, Flight 1 and Flight 2 players, and thats fine, its the parents that dont accept it thats the problem.........
I personally do not see a problem with a coach that is good at recruiting and a great track record.
Troy High School is a good example.

 

[notintheface]

How many of you have that friend that has 6 different jersey in six different years with a decent player.

Yes, this exactly. Parents are severely overestimating the value of winning a majority of their games, and are severely underestimating the value of hanging out with their friends that they've made outside of school on a consistent basis week after week year after year.

Especially for youngers, where the highs of winning and the lows of losing last for about 30 minutes after the game, and the pizza hangouts with their friends afterwards bring laughs and fun times regardless of the scoreline. If a parent jumps clubs because their team finished in the middle of their league bracket, they don't understand most of why their kids love the game.

 

[46n2]

Some parents will spend top $$$ to TRY and make their kid better by training 8 days a week, but similar to other sports, Skills is only one aspect of the game, you need to have speed, strength, stamina, IQ, HEART, and some luck to make it as a great player.

FACT- You can juggle 700 times , great.... but can you visualize and draw your opponent to you , unselfishly distribute a ball, while breaking a line and be happy with a assist . Some people have it and others just dont.

In all my years , Ive never seen a average coach do great things at the older level, maybe with ulittles, they can get lucky, but once you cross over to U14 and above, if your kids doesn't have it by then , it becomes a conversation with yourself with how much your willing to spend, lose and be ok with burning your hard earned money.

Its quick to hate or blame the coach, but alot of us sometimes need to look in the mirror and say WTF am I doing here, its just soccer.

 

[46n2]

Yes, this exactly. Parents are severely overestimating the value of winning a majority of their games, and are severely underestimating the value of hanging out with their friends that they've made outside of school on a consistent basis week after week year after year.

Especially for youngers, where the highs of winning and the lows of losing last for about 30 minutes after the game, and the pizza hangouts with their friends afterwards bring laughs and fun times regardless of the scoreline. If a parent jumps clubs because their team finished in the middle of their league bracket, they don't understand most of why their kids love the game.

Very rarely will a kid really think about a win or loss after 6-24 hours, its the parent that continues to bring it up, thats a fact , because that is me, and I am ashamed to admit it

 

[watfly]

Don't be jealous-- most teams are similar to your son's. Remember in a tournament flight with two brackets of 8 teams, 75% of the teams end their tournament with a loss, with only the winner and the 3rd place team ending with a win. In State Cup with an age group of 64 teams, 98% of the teams end State Cup with a loss and usually only 25% of the teams have a winning record over the whole tournament.

In league play, your team is 99% more likely to have a .500 record than it is to win all its games. In a league bracket where you play every team exactly twice, you are more likely to lose more games than you win. (This sounds crazy but statistically you are more likely to lose or draw a game to a lower ranked team and lose both games to higher ranked teams)

This game has never been about being completely and utterly dominant from game to game -- yes there are some teams that are like that but they are rare, and no team wins every game that it plays during a year. This is the number one thing that I wish every parent knew-- if you feel like you are paying club fees in order for your child to win games, you are in this for the very wrong reason.

Your son's experience is normal-- please make sure your son knows this. One individual coach is not going to magically turn a flight 2 team into a giant-killing flight 1 team. It is perfectly fine for them to be on that midtable flight 2 team, because they are still better than 99% of their peers.

I appreciate the sentiments and agree 100%. Fortunately on a jealously scale I'm about a 2 out of 10. More fortunately my son has completely forgotten about the game by the time he gets to the car....he's planning his next skate surf or fishing session. Were in a good place right now with a solid coach and a club with teams that grow signicantly more competitive as they move up in age groups.

 

[zebrafish]

I think the multiple games per day/weekend thing is an absolute travesty.
I think it leads to increased risk for injury and burnout for a lot of players.
And COVID-19 is only going to make things worse.
My own kid's club is basically saying they're going to cram all the yearly tournaments, leagues, games etc. into a compressed period.
Just like in the NFL, we're going to see a lot of injuries happening once things start up again without the proper training build-up and rest necessary to prevent injury. I'm definitely going to hold my kid out of games-- we've already had issues with patellar tendonitis and overuse type of stuff. Ultimately, the clubs could care less about these issues. They care most about the profit margin.

 

[dad4]

I think the multiple games per day/weekend thing is an absolute travesty.
I think it leads to increased risk for injury and burnout for a lot of players.
And COVID-19 is only going to make things worse.
My own kid's club is basically saying they're going to cram all the yearly tournaments, leagues, games etc. into a compressed period.
Just like in the NFL, we're going to see a lot of injuries happening once things start up again without the proper training build-up and rest necessary to prevent injury. I'm definitely going to hold my kid out of games-- we've already had issues with patellar tendonitis and overuse type of stuff. Ultimately, the clubs could care less about these issues. They care most about the profit margin.

They are worried you will leave if they don't overschedule.

Part of this falls on us to start asking for less.