Why do we tolerate 3+ games in 2-3 days?

happy9 said:
Happened to me a few times with my oldest at a previous club years ago. Played an important part in why we left.

While the DA showcase rules did reach deeper into your pockets, they were well intentioned. My youngest has never played more than one game a day. The only reason to play 2 games in a day is to "crown an champion", which appeals to many.
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ECNL does not play more than one game per day either. They just do not have the day in between off like DA did, which made it hard on families financially, and hard for kids missing more class.
 
GT45 said:
ECNL does not play more than one game per day either. They just do not have the day in between off like DA did, which made it hard on families financially, and hard for kids missing more class.
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True, but ask any player how they feel on that third day in a row (or coach), and if they're being honest, they will tell you 70% at best. (if they were going 100% on day 1 and 2, of course). You can see the dropoff on the field too. I'd be totally fine with ECNL showcases having only 2 games over the course of 2 or 3 days. Sounds like most parents on this thread would as well.
 
Personally I'm in favor of the showcase style for 11v11 games with shortened game lengths. With shortened games I think 3 games in two days is doable. We participated in a DA showcase a couple of years ago with this format and it was a blast (might have been 3 over 3 days). Best part was we were purposely matched with teams we wouldn't normally play...2 from Nocal and 1 from Colorado. I realize this may not be realistic in some cases.
 
MacDre said:
To me it makes the most sense because if a team can’t beat other local teams, then there’s no need to travel.
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Depends on the family's motivation, whether its only about winning or more about the experience. Our family is more about the experience, but maybe that's just because my son's team rarely wins.
 
Ive never been a fan of so many tournaments. It feels like parents are the ones that love tournaments more than kids. Eliminate so many tournaments and you can avoid the issue of injuries with kids. Scrimmages 2x a weekend is more than enough.
 
oh canada said:
Texting with a few friends who went to AZ last weekend (kids are Juniors in HS) and I was struck how all three of them (don't know one another) felt the current tournament structure needs to be changed. More than two games in a weekend is not healthy (short term and long term) and does not facilitate good quality play either. One parent's kid played 5 games, 5!, in 3 days. Said the early games weren't that competitive and the Final was more kickball than he had seen for his kid's team in years. "Not getting any good video clips from that game," was his quote.

Got me to thinking...why do we allow the clubs to put our sons and daughters through it? Although never a fan of the DA, I did appreciate their rule of no more than 2 games in 3 days. Smart and player-thoughtful. Eight year old kids may be able to run forever on a little field, but once we get to 11 v 11, the tournaments should no longer be about winning trophies after 5 games and simply be about providing good competitive games for players to test their development, get looks from scouts, and enjoying the team experience.

Some will say that the tournaments are providing more games to justify travel and their fees. But that assumes parents wouldn't travel and pay the same for two competitive games on good fields and in a attractive destination (eg, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Diego, etc.). I, for one, would certainly be happy to pay my 1/16 share of $1500 and spend two nights in Vegas for two high quality games. Would you? If so, then let your club know. Maybe we can get an enlightened, forward-thinking club to give it a try?
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For the older ages (2006 - 2002) Surf Cup Phoenix was 1 game per day over 3 days, then shortened games on the 4th day for semis and finals. Agree that it tests the depth of many teams. What is the alternative? Would TopHat from Georgia have made the trip if they had to stay 8 days in a hotel to space out the games? Like it or not, parents, players, and coaches would all prefer to compete for a trophy, and college coaches want to see players competing for something and not just playing in a showcase where no one really cares whether they win or not.
 
Eagle33 said:
There are plenty of Tournaments using Showcase format (3 games - 1 a day), no trophies and they are very popular.
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Used to be more popular but in today's covid restrictive environment spending to play out of state showcases without championships is a hard sell. Parents have less to spend so they want more to play for. College coaches and D1 attendance not a draw like it once was for regular tournaments.
 
Even shortened halves used in invitational events can be bad in the aggregate, especially if the kids have moved to the full field. That is a lot of minutes over a relatively short period of time for developing bodies (is it worth it to play 20 min halves just so you can have a champion at the end?). ECNL showcases playing full 90s over 3 consecutive days? It’s unhealthy for all but the GKs.
 
CheatingMkay said:
For the older ages (2006 - 2002) Surf Cup Phoenix was 1 game per day over 3 days, then shortened games on the 4th day for semis and finals. Agree that it tests the depth of many teams. What is the alternative? Would TopHat from Georgia have made the trip if they had to stay 8 days in a hotel to space out the games? Like it or not, parents, players, and coaches would all prefer to compete for a trophy, and college coaches want to see players competing for something and not just playing in a showcase where no one really cares whether they win or not.
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Of those 4 or 5 games, how many were worth the trip for Top Hat?

I would bet that only 2 or 3 were worth playing.

If you don't like a 3 game showcase, do a 3 game single elimination with a losers bracket. 3 games each. (7 elimination games plus five consolation games.)
 
dad4 said:
Of those 4 or 5 games, how many were worth the trip for Top Hat?

I would bet that only 2 or 3 were worth playing.

If you don't like a 3 game showcase, do a 3 game single elimination with a losers bracket. 3 games each. (7 elimination games plus five consolation games.)
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I'd suspect that wouldn't be too popular with teams, who would complain about the bracketing. Every game an elimination game - lots of Kicks from the Mark matches. But I like the creativity!
 
SoccerFan4Life said:
Ive never been a fan of so many tournaments. It feels like parents are the ones that love tournaments more than kids. Eliminate so many tournaments and you can avoid the issue of injuries with kids. Scrimmages 2x a weekend is more than enough.
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I wouldn't say that about the tournaments (although I would say some parents definitely enjoyed themselves on tournament weekends) -- I know my kids loved going to 4 tournaments a year at the younger ages and spending time with teammates in hotels (Vegas, SD, Reno, Sac or Manteca). 20 minute halves and 4-5 games in 3 days usually (Friday night to Sunday) and we never came across issues in body breakdown. The DA way of doing things definitely was difficult for the participants (Players and coaches) in the aspect of Financing and Academics, but the 3 games in 4 days was probably best on the bodies. 3 games in 3 days also seems doable from a health perspective as long as the teams do proper nutrition and stretching before and after the games.
 
dk_b said:
Even shortened halves used in invitational events can be bad in the aggregate, especially if the kids have moved to the full field. That is a lot of minutes over a relatively short period of time for developing bodies (is it worth it to play 20 min halves just so you can have a champion at the end?). ECNL showcases playing full 90s over 3 consecutive days? It’s unhealthy for all but the GKs.
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It is not unhealthy. You roster 18 players. There are not enough minutes to go around in only two games for 18 high school players. I swear some of you do not grasp fitness. Do the math. If your team is fit this is a non-issue.
 
GT45 said:
It is not unhealthy. You roster 18 players. There are not enough minutes to go around in only two games for 18 high school players. I swear some of you do not grasp fitness. Do the math. If your team is fit this is a non-issue.
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I can do the math and completely disagree, no matter the fitness level of the players. It is too many minutes in too short a time frame. If it weren’t, other levels of soccer would play more concentrated schedules. If we could fund the study, I’d wager that injury rates are correlated to this (enough sports docs consider ACLs to be overuse-related).
 
GT45 said:
It is not unhealthy. You roster 18 players. There are not enough minutes to go around in only two games for 18 high school players. I swear some of you do not grasp fitness. Do the math. If your team is fit this is a non-issue.
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Minutes are not equally distributed, especially when the games are close.

If you roster 18 and play 4 games, that isn't 220 minutes each. The top players end up playing over 300 minutes each. More if there is OT. That probably is not healthy.
 
GT45 said:
It is not unhealthy. You roster 18 players. There are not enough minutes to go around in only two games for 18 high school players. I swear some of you do not grasp fitness. Do the math. If your team is fit this is a non-issue.
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My son was on a great team but he was a bench player. He would get less than 30 minutes and starters would play almost the entire game regardless of the games during the weekend. We often played 4 games in 2 days and these starters were exhausted. We had a roster of 16 but 9 of them would play 70% of the minutes.
 
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