Vaccine

[dad4]

Policy making blurs into expert opinions but we are better off NOT having subject matter experts make policy. The very fact that they are an expert in a given area makes it less likely they are capable of a measured assessment of all risk. Unfortunately, political partisanship is much more common than the wisdom necessary to approach these policy decisions while considering all the risks involved.

The experts, by and large, did ok.

For example, cloth masks were a quite reasonable measure against the strains in circulation in April of 2020. R0 was only 2-3 back then. You didn’t need much. You just had to do it consistently.

Unfortunately, we had a national disinformation campaign dedicated to talking people out of wearing the masks. A few thousand epidemiologists and air quality engineers aren‘t going to out-shout Fox News. So we had maybe 50% compliance. People would wear a mask at the grocer, but not when friends arrive for dinner.

That doesn’t mean the original advice was bad. Most advice fails when you don’t follow it.

 

[dad4]

“Dewormer”. That statement alone proves your ignorance and hypocrisy in terms of denial and disinformation.

Ivermectin is a deworming agent. It’s also a neurotoxin.

Even if it had turned out to be a great covid treatment, Trump was out of place to be talking it up. He has none of the qualifications needed to evaluate any drug, let alone one with potentially fatal side effects.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

Ivermectin is a deworming agent. It’s also a neurotoxin.

Even if it had turned out to be a great covid treatment, Trump was out of place to be talking it up. He has none of the qualifications needed to evaluate any drug, let alone one with potentially fatal side effects.

OK…..not like Japan, India and several Dr’s in the US weren’t using it as an integral part of their treatments. I guess the FDA never approved it for humans, right?

Trump said this so it must be that….love your logic. You just can’t get past what the mean Orange man says can you.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

OK…..not like Japan, India and several Dr’s in the US weren’t using it as an integral part of their treatments. I guess the FDA never approved it for humans, right?

Trump said this so it must be that….love your logic. You just can’t get past what the mean Orange man says can you.

You get awfully sensitive when it comes to Trump (now capitalized as to not purposely offend the true believers, the devotees, the followers, the cult. Aka those that hope we ignore his lunacy and their pious fervor towards all that is Trump!).

 

[watfly]

Policy making blurs into expert opinions but we are better off NOT having subject matter experts make policy. The very fact that they are an expert in a given area makes it less likely they are capable of a measured assessment of all risk. Unfortunately, political partisanship is much more common than the wisdom necessary to approach these policy decisions while considering all the risks involved.

I'm OK with having these subject matter experts sitting at the table, but they're too myopic to be driving policy. One of Trump's biggest mistakes was allowing Fauci to continue to drive the Covid bus after the 1st couple months.

 

[dad4]

OK…..not like Japan, India and several Dr’s in the US weren’t using it as an integral part of their treatments. I guess the FDA never approved it for humans, right?

Trump said this so it must be that….love your logic. You just can’t get past what the mean Orange man says can you.

Ivermectin actually is a good idea in India. It is a powerful drug against parasites, and covid patients in India are more likely to have parasites.

But, whether it is a good drug or not, Trump was out of place. He doesn't know anything about drug safety.

I can't believe you guys are willing to trust a reality TV real estate developer about which drugs are safe, but don't respect the results of the FDA process.

You have it totally backwards.

 

[Happened again]

The experts, by and large, did ok.

For example, cloth masks were a quite reasonable measure against the strains in circulation in April of 2020. R0 was only 2-3 back then. You didn’t need much. You just had to do it consistently.

Unfortunately, we had a national disinformation campaign dedicated to talking people out of wearing the masks. A few thousand epidemiologists and air quality engineers aren‘t going to out-shout Fox News. So we had maybe 50% compliance. People would wear a mask at the grocer, but not when friends arrive for dinner.

That doesn’t mean the original advice was bad. Most advice fails when you don’t follow it.

how exactly are you supposed to eat dinner with friends that have masks on?

What is the R now, and does it matter? And yes, I agree the experts did OK.(ones not bullied by the media or high on the idea they were on the media). Novelty is difficult to deal with - throw politics into the mix and you get the great 2021 Covid response. I would argue there was way less than 50% compliance, if you factor in mask fit and mask material. Masking at best was a decent attempt at addressing anxiety. Taking an hour to eat a peanut while in flight defeats the purpose of masking.

If I were you I'd argue harder that better early vaccine adoption would have saved more lives amongst the at risk population. Simulataneously some decent health messaging could still be saving lives. Way too many at risk people shoving whoppers and big macs down their throat.

 

[watfly]

The experts, by and large, did ok.

For example, cloth masks were a quite reasonable measure against the strains in circulation in April of 2020. R0 was only 2-3 back then. You didn’t need much. You just had to do it consistently.

Unfortunately, we had a national disinformation campaign dedicated to talking people out of wearing the masks. A few thousand epidemiologists and air quality engineers aren‘t going to out-shout Fox News. So we had maybe 50% compliance. People would wear a mask at the grocer, but not when friends arrive for dinner.

That doesn’t mean the original advice was bad. Most advice fails when you don’t follow it.

Masks were a "side-show" and largely irrelevant either way. Good debate fodder, but not much more. Just FYI mask compliance was much greater than 50%. If you didn't wear a mask where mandated you weren't getting into whatever public indoor place you were soliciting. Other than on a rare occasion, everyone was wearing masks where required, at least the places I visited.

 

[Happened again]

Ivermectin actually is a good idea in India. It is a powerful drug against parasites, and covid patients in India are more likely to have parasites.

But, whether it is a good drug or not, Trump was out of place. He doesn't know anything about drug safety.

I can't believe you guys are willing to trust a reality TV real estate developer about which drugs are safe, but don't respect the results of the FDA process.

You have it totally backwards.

Most people who took ivm and continue to take ivm are taking it at the direction of their health professional. Really safe drug with few to zero bad side effects. Even with the BS deworming messaging, ivm prescriptions happened/are happening. I really don't know what the big deal was/is with ivm....beyond just a basic hatred of trumpy. For many, many people afflicted with terminal tds, he could say the sky is blue and not be believed. His fault for the path he chose..non tds folks are likely smart enough to make their own assessments and not 100% rely on the government for advice.

 

[watfly]

I would argue there was way less than 50% compliance, if you factor in mask fit and mask material. Masking at best was a decent attempt at addressing anxiety.

But eating with your mask down was being compliant with the mandates (ignoring those taking an hour) . That's another reason the policies were so frivolous. Masks were symbolic and not preventative. (and when I say masks I mean masking mandates for the general public).

 

[kickingandscreaming]

The experts, by and large, did ok.

I suppose everyone has their own definition of “ok”.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

That doesn’t mean the original advice was bad. Most advice fails when you don’t follow it.

Ok, back to being more “Asian”, or “Mormon” I see.

 

[dad4]

Ok, back to being more “Asian”, or “Mormon” I see.

You think only Asians and Mormons are capable of organizing an outdoor dinner party?

It really isn’t that hard. You just put the cups and plates outside on the picnic table instead of inside at the dining room table.

Most places, you need to check the weather first. You’re in socal, so you can skip that step.

 

[watfly]

You think only Asians and Mormons are capable of organizing an outdoor dinner party?

It really isn’t that hard. You just put the cups and plates outside on the picnic table instead of inside at the dining room table.

Most places, you need to check the weather first. You’re in socal, so you can skip that step.

We had outdoor, semi distanced, BYOB, driveway cocktail parties starting about 2 weeks after the lockdown. The looks and words of condemnation from our neighbors were pretty classic.

 

[dad4]

We had outdoor, semi distanced, BYOB, driveway cocktail parties starting about 2 weeks after the lockdown. The looks and words of condemnation from our neighbors were pretty classic.

Turns out, that was the right thing.

 

[watfly]

Turns out, that was the right thing.

Morphed into just outdoor parties and then return to normal. I think it was a HS basketball game that finally caught up to me.

 

[Grace T.]

I'm OK with having these subject matter experts sitting at the table, but they're too myopic to be driving policy. One of Trump's biggest mistakes was allowing Fauci to continue to drive the Covid bus after the 1st couple months.

If you read the Atlas book it wasn't Fauci who was driving the Covid bus. It was Birx...who came up with everything from the mask policy reversal to the outdoor shutdowns. Fauci was primarily responsible for the vaccine/drug response (Which he heavily slanted towards vaccines) but he was constantly injecting himself in the discussion to run interference for others. Birx in turn was basically given free reign by Mike Pence, who Trump put in charge of the coronavirus response, and was convinced Birx was "MAGA through and through"...Pence showed little inclination to challenge experts or ask questions, often depicted as being bored with the response and deferring to Birx to run the meetings.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

You get awfully sensitive when it comes to Trump (now capitalized as to not purposely offend the true believers, the devotees, the followers, the cult. Aka those that hope we ignore his lunacy and their pious fervor towards all that is Trump!).

The sarcasm in the “Trump” comment is completely lost on you. But I should have expected that.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

You’re in socal, so you can skip that step.

C'mon, @dad4, we are SC county neighbors.

 

[dad4]

C'mon, @dad4, we are SC county neighbors.

In that case, hold the BBQ as soon as you get back from Seattle. If you wait until August, the air will be full of smoke and we’ll all be inside again.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

In that case, hold the BBQ as soon as you get back from Seattle. If you wait until August, the air will be full of smoke and we’ll all be inside again.

We do have that to look forward to.