Vaccine

This is going to push us towards booster mandates (which also explains why the UK is looking to revise it's definition of fully vaxxed). IF it hold up, the other open question is how long does this immunity last. Just from anecdotal evidence of having spoken to various people with different experience of the booster, my gut tells me after the one booster, willingness to comply is going to drop severely, unless you get to the point that whatever the applicable product's side effects approach some point where they mirror the flu vaccine (and remember even with the flu vaccine we have only about 50% compliance depending on the jurisidiction)

www.ft.com

UK expands Covid booster jab programme to 40 to 49-year-olds

Children aged 16 and 17 will also be eligible for second dose to increase protection against infection
www.ft.com www.ft.com
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
No. It's a human endeavor with its successes, failures, weaknesses, strengths, good, bad and the ugly. And I'd say it's because i see it that way that I'm not prone to this conspiratorial team this and team that, which I find curious. The thing about purity, whatever that means, is coming from you. You say that's not how you see it but, well, I have to say it sure sounds like it. Poking at it, however, can only be a good thing so keep going. All I'm saying is you may want to consider a different methodology because your current one does not seem to be making inroads.
Click to expand...
To some it’s just easier to see complicity as opposed to sifting through the complex and nuanced. Good guys vs bad guys, cops vs robbers, the news media vs “the holy and righteous”.
 
Despite being fully vaxxed 40% of the Ottawa Senators has come down with COVID. Assuming it's not a fluke, it's more evidence of a really high breakthrough rate. Unless you are going to mandate the boosters (and those boosters are 1 and done), there's no point to vaccination mandate.

www.outkick.com

Despite NHL's 99% Vaccination Rate, Ottawa Senators Games Postponed Due To COVID

We've reached the period in NHL history where the league will postpone games for a fully vaccinated hockey roster. Ottawa Sun columnist Bruce Garrioch reported Monday that the Otta
www.outkick.com www.outkick.com
 
Grace T. said:
Despite being fully vaxxed 40% of the Ottawa Senators has come down with COVID. Assuming it's not a fluke, it's more evidence of a really high breakthrough rate. Unless you are going to mandate the boosters (and those boosters are 1 and done), there's no point to vaccination mandate.

www.outkick.com

Despite NHL's 99% Vaccination Rate, Ottawa Senators Games Postponed Due To COVID

We've reached the period in NHL history where the league will postpone games for a fully vaccinated hockey roster. Ottawa Sun columnist Bruce Garrioch reported Monday that the Otta
www.outkick.com www.outkick.com
Click to expand...
What, exactly, do you mean by “came down with”?

Were any hospitalized? Bedridden? Anything to worry about?

All you’re saying is that ten vaccinated NHL players tested positive for covid, feel mostly ok, but are staying away from other people so they don’t spread it.

Sounds like a pretty normal day. The take-home message is probably that professional athletes should patronize only well ventilated strip clubs.
 
dad4 said:
What, exactly, do you mean by “came down with”?

Were any hospitalized? Bedridden? Anything to worry about?

All you’re saying is that ten vaccinated NHL players tested positive for covid, feel mostly ok, but are staying away from other people so they don’t spread it.

Sounds like a pretty normal day. The take-home message is probably that professional athletes should patronize only well ventilated strip clubs.
Click to expand...

That's cute. I approve. :)

There are two basic arguments that have been advanced for vaccine mandates. 1) to prevent community spread. If 40% of the team despite being vaccinated came down with COVID, that's not much by way of prevention on community spread. Unless the boosters provide long lasting protection against community spread, and you are prepared to mandate the boosters, there's no point to a vaccine mandate. And again, if 40% of the team is falling ill (short of long lasting natural immunity and/or boosters), herd immunity is a chimera. As you yourself outlined, the magic $1,000,000 question is how big is the breakthrough rate.

2) to protect stupid individuals from themselves from the severe harm of hospitalization/long covid/death. The problem with this argument is that if you don't trust people to make this decision for their own lives, why are you letting them vote (or have children).
 
dad4 said:
Were any hospitalized? Bedridden? Anything to worry about?
Click to expand...
Is that a function of the vaccine or the fact they're healthy young people? Maybe both to some extent, but don't pretend this is inherent only to the vaccinated. Plenty of unvaccinated athletes have had no issues from Covid, in fact, its extremely rare for professional athletes to have any ill effects from Covid.
 
Based on what's reported by Minnesota (its the easiest data to find for these metrics), it looks like breakthrough infections are twice as likely as reinfection (in terms of rate). Breakthrough is 72,268 cases over 3,234,905 vaccinated, or 2.25%, vs Reinfection is 8,996 cases vs 837,765 total cases, or 1.07%.

So the rate is double, but the number of cases is 8x higher for breakthrough cases. So remind me again why only the unvaccinated are the problem and why we should discriminate against the unvaccinated but previously infected?
 
what-happened said:
Ahhh, the CDC, AKA Floppy Noodle. And yes, they have a really tough job. Unfortunately they've been unable to stay out of the political spotlight for 20 months - making their job harder and planting the seed that they are not a reliable source of info.

Maybe next time they won't let administrations, campaigns, and big pharma be their marketing machine. Now they are questioned, mocked, ridiculed whenever new information is released.
Click to expand...

That's a curious way of admitting your error.
 
watfly said:
Is that a function of the vaccine or the fact they're healthy young people? Maybe both to some extent, but don't pretend this is inherent only to the vaccinated. Plenty of unvaccinated athletes have had no issues from Covid, in fact, its extremely rare for professional athletes to have any ill effects from Covid.
Click to expand...
Completely agree that it is age, health, and vaccination all together. These guys were very low risk for multiple reasons.

Because of that, there is no conclusion to be drawn. At most, it’s one more piece of evidence that vaccinated people can still test positive for covid. We knew that.

It doesn’t even tell us much about the probability. If tells us nothing if they all got it at the same place that had very high viral concentrations. It tells us quite a bit if it was jumping from person to person in the clubhouse. But we can’t say which it was without going back in time and doing better contact tracing.
 
dad4 said:
Completely agree that it is age, health, and vaccination all together. These guys were very low risk for multiple reasons.

Because of that, there is no conclusion to be drawn. At most, it’s one more piece of evidence that vaccinated people can still test positive for covid. We knew that.

It doesn’t even tell us much about the probability. If tells us nothing if they all got it at the same place that had very high viral concentrations. It tells us quite a bit if it was jumping from person to person in the clubhouse. But we can’t say which it was without going back in time and doing better contact tracing.
Click to expand...

It does tell us one thing: breakthrough infections aren't "rare". True, it is entirely possible that a quarter if you throw it will come up heads 90/100 times....but it's not probable that such is the result on a cumulative basis. If breakthrough infections were "rare", you wouldn't have 40% of the team out at one time plus a few of the coaches.

p.s. again, not hard proof, but it is an anecdotal indication
 
Grace T. said:
It does tell us one thing: breakthrough infections aren't "rare". True, it is entirely possible that a quarter if you throw it will come up heads 90/100 times....but it's not probable that such is the result on a cumulative basis. If breakthrough infections were "rare", you wouldn't have 40% of the team out at one time plus a few of the coaches.

p.s. again, not hard proof, but it is an anecdotal indication
Click to expand...
Considering they shut down playgrounds in LA nine months into the pandemic without any evidence of transmission at playgrounds, anecdotal evidence is pretty good. We are seeing the continued approach of "mandates without evidence" in terms of the exclusion of non-vaccinated individuals who already had COVID. At least we are consistent in not requiring evidence for mandates. This guy has an interesting take.

www.foxnews.com

Chinese dissident warns Americans: You’re already in the authoritarian state...you just don’t know it

Noted Chinese dissenter and artist Ai Weiwei compared the wave of political correctness in American culture to Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution in a PBS interview.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
dad4 said:
Completely agree that it is age, health, and vaccination all together. These guys were very low risk for multiple reasons
Click to expand...
And yet we pretend they need to be vaxxed.

A large group also pretend that kids need to be vaxxed.

The vast vast majority of people could avoid the vax and still be fine.

There really are only a couple of groups that have a risk factor to be worried about.

Not anti vax. Certain groups need it. The rest? Doesn't really matter .

The sooner the powers that be realize the virus isn't going anywhere and only certain groups have any real risk, we will finally move on.
 
Grace T. said:
It does tell us one thing: breakthrough infections aren't "rare". True, it is entirely possible that a quarter if you throw it will come up heads 90/100 times....but it's not probable that such is the result on a cumulative basis. If breakthrough infections were "rare", you wouldn't have 40% of the team out at one time plus a few of the coaches.

p.s. again, not hard proof, but it is an anecdotal indication
Click to expand...
It tells you no such thing.

If all ten players went to the same poorly ventilated strip club, it may just mean that they all ten had an unusually high exposure.

That tells you nothing about the prevalence of breakthrough cases outside that one club.

(You're assuming all ten coin flips are independent. The odds are different if the coins are linked together )
 
dad4 said:
It tells you no such thing.

If all ten players went to the same poorly ventilated strip club, it may just mean that they all ten had an unusually high exposure.

That tells you nothing about the prevalence of breakthrough cases outside that one club.

(You're assuming all ten coin flips are independent. The odds are different if the coins are linked together )
Click to expand...
As I said it is possible that a quarter flips 90/100 heads

It is highly unlikely. And 40% is not rare. Based on this anecdote, what limited data we have in front of us (but nevertheless there) as well as the other anecdotes and circumstances we have all heard, you’d think at this point you’d be willing to concede that breakthrough are not “rare”.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top